Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

11/09/2009, 9:50 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Mental stuff, I suppose banking on bigger gates is pretty silly in the first place. I mean, the good will is draining from the club by the second and it's all down to one man at the end of the day.
Only option is for foras to apply to A League now for next season. Sad situation.

As cork do not own the ground and have no assets apart from the players can they "do a rovers" IE walk away from what they owe, appoint a new board and maintain a place in the Prem ? I think the rules may have altered since but am not sure (something I share with FAI/League admin :))
11/09/2009, 9:53 AM
CuanaD

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalwayRed

You cant make somebody redundant unless you can prove you dont need them or anyone else to do the job theyre doing anymore afaik. Ie. if cork city make a midfielder redundant to cut the wage bill and then replace him with a player on amateur terms than thats grounds for unfair dismissal as cork city did actually need a midfielder they were just trying to cut costs. They would have to pay off the midfielders contract in full to release him.

Exactly - they can't be replaced for something like 18 months I think
11/09/2009, 10:02 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuanaD

Exactly - they can't be replaced for something like 18 months I think

There is no time limit on it, the matter can be referred to the Employment Appeals Tribunal under the Redundancy Payments Act (as stated redundancy applies to the job not the worker). In the event that a club replaced a player with a cheaper option it could be declared a non redundancy situation by the EAT.
This is far from cut and dried however (SEE Irish ferries / SIPTU case) and each case is examed individually.
11/09/2009, 10:02 AM
Sam_Heggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinobohs

As cork do not own the ground and have no assets apart from the players can they "do a rovers" IE walk away from what they owe, appoint a new board and maintain a place in the Prem ? I think the rules may have altered since but am not sure (something I share with FAI/League admin :))

I would say at best they would be allowed to re-enter into the A league but as you say, does the FAI have a set rule on this or can it be altered to suit?
11/09/2009, 10:13 AM
pineapple stu

Yeah, licencing (allegedly) makes it impossible to be wound up and keep your spot in the Premier.
11/09/2009, 10:39 AM
John83

The case is different from Shams, who pretty much resemble Coughlan's Cork. If the company's actually wound up, they're gone from the Premier, barring some spectacular new FAI fudging.
11/09/2009, 10:40 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

The case is different from Shams

True. It's the same as Cork in the mid-90s (among other Munster examples)
11/09/2009, 10:45 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

The case is different from Shams.

I think he was referring to previous cases of Rovers winding up holding companies and continuing in the league under a new holding company. I'm not sure of the details but this was the general jist of what happened as far as I'm aware.
11/09/2009, 10:47 AM
pineapple stu

Think MB was specifically talking about the examinership in 2005.
11/09/2009, 10:50 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Think MB was specifically talking about the examinership in 2005.

They didn't keep a place in the premier that year though. They lost the play off to Home Farm.
11/09/2009, 11:03 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

They didn't keep a place in the premier that year though. They lost the play off to Home Farm.

That had nothing to do with "winding up holding companies and continuing in the league under a new holding company", as you put it, though.
11/09/2009, 11:30 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That had nothing to do with "winding up holding companies and continuing in the league under a new holding company", as you put it, though.

Huh? :confused: I'm saying that in 2005 they didn't

Quote:

walk away from what they owe, appoint a new board and maintain a place in the Prem

so I assume that that refers to a previous case of walking away from what they owe.
11/09/2009, 11:38 AM
pineapple stu

They did maintain their place in the Premier, though. They played the whole rest of the season, in fact. If Cork were to be wound up now, they could (in theory) play no further games in the Premier this season. However, in the mid-90s, Cork were wound up, started a new company the next day and kept their place in the Premier as a result. That's not allowed now.
11/09/2009, 11:44 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

They didn't keep a place in the premier that year though. They lost the play off to Home Farm.

true, but they lost the prem place on the pitch (they were not reegated). cork are unlikely to be relegated on the pitch. my question was has the rules changed to prevent a club "doing a Rovers" i.e. winding down one holding company and starting afresh and retaining their place in the Prem (this is not a dig at Rovers by the way just quoting an example - so save the hate mail !).
I think the rules may have changed since but am not sure of the position.
11/09/2009, 11:45 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They did maintain their place in the Premier, though. They played the whole rest of the season, in fact.

Ah, of course, the examinership wasn't at the end of the season. I'd forgotten that.

I'm aware of the rule change on winding up holding companies and I assume they can't go into examinership twice. This seems to about a much smaller amount than the revenue one though so they'll probably get the money from somewhere and something else will blow up later.
11/09/2009, 11:49 AM
pineapple stu

You'll remember they were docked all the points (8) that they had at the time, setting a precedent for docking Longford six points two years later.

Rumour on the Cork forum is that the "mystery loaner" - allegedly a married couple going under the name Frank And Irene - will allow the gate receipts from the Celtic friendly to pay this month's wages and the Farrelly bill, meaning Cork would be in debt to Frank And Irene to the tune of roughly the whole loan amount. And all this would come out of future prize money, and there's still two months of the season to go.

Only a rumour, obviously. But it's believable.
11/09/2009, 11:51 AM
thischarmingman

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

the "mystery loaner" - allegedly a married couple going under the name Frank And Irene - will allow the gate receipts from the Celtic friendly to pay this month's wages and the Farrelly bill, meaning Cork would be in debt to Frank And Irene to the tune of roughly the whole loan amount. And all this would come out of future prize money, and there's still two months of the season to go.

Only a rumour, obviously. But it's believable.

I'd imagine that would be filed under "Sound Business Plan" in more than a few boardrooms in Ireland.
11/09/2009, 11:52 AM
Schumi

Are the FAI not taking the Celtic money?
11/09/2009, 11:52 AM
pineapple stu

Read over my post and watch me wink when I say Frank And Irene...
11/09/2009, 11:55 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Read over my post and watch me wink when I say Frank And Irene...

:o I should read more closely.

It probably makes sense to these mystery people as they're more likely to get their money back if the club keeps going.
11/09/2009, 11:57 AM
Sam_Heggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

Are the FAI not taking the Celtic money?

Key is in the capital A in Frank And Irene.

It will be interesting to hear Cobh fans' take on it all.
11/09/2009, 12:28 PM
tiktok

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Read over my post and watch me wink when I say Frank And Irene...

I can't believe that it needed explanation :D
11/09/2009, 12:39 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiktok

I can't believe that it needed explanation :D

Me neither. :o
11/09/2009, 1:12 PM
passerrby

Im lead to believe that frank is building a new house so his family would not be happy with him lending out money to there poor relations down the road .
on a more personnel note ive heard irene is playing away from home
11/09/2009, 2:21 PM
marty

As a Cobh fan its fairly pityfull watching City down the years run themselves into mess after mess,the city has potential for a big club but need assets and thats their sticky point and it dont look like changing any time soon.If this latest story is true its sad on the players and staff at Cobh who got no such help and rightly so.
11/09/2009, 2:33 PM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You'll remember they were docked all the points (8) that they had at the time, setting a precedent for docking Longford six points two years later.

Rumour on the Cork forum is that the "mystery loaner" - allegedly a married couple going under the name Frank And Irene - will allow the gate receipts from the Celtic friendly to pay this month's wages and the Farrelly bill, meaning Cork would be in debt to Frank And Irene to the tune of roughly the whole loan amount. And all this would come out of future prize money, and there's still two months of the season to go.

Only a rumour, obviously. But it's believable.

If this were true would they not run into trouble under european rules for directly funding a club ? Not that I could see FIFA even glancing in the direction of the LOI.
if this latest plan is based on prize money Cork will soon have to win the Champions League (with a team of part time farmers from Midleton :D)
11/09/2009, 4:35 PM
A N Mouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by passerrby

Im lead to believe that frank is building a new house so his family would not be happy with him lending out money to there poor relations down the road .
on a more personnel note ive heard irene is playing away from home

I heard Frank was getting a load of money from Mary, his bit on the side, who recently started at the BOI.
11/09/2009, 4:37 PM
Magicme

That would be some slap in the face.
11/09/2009, 6:48 PM
tippex

if it was true that frank and irene bailed out cork in this way would this not go totally aganst the rules etc and the participation agreement.
Also would there not be issues with other clubs and possible court action etc?

I'm making assumptions here as I have not seen the licensing documents nor the participation agreements (although I wonder if Frank And Irene have seen these either)
11/09/2009, 6:48 PM
SkStu

anyone for fudge?
11/09/2009, 6:54 PM
tippex

now would that be cadbury's fudge or that cheap Euro shop shoite?

I'd only be going with the premium fudge if I'm honest
11/09/2009, 8:38 PM
Hairy Bowsie

Frank And Irene only do premium fudge
11/09/2009, 8:51 PM
Longfordian

I'd be surprised if it shows up in the end of year accounts for Frank and Irene's little enterpise as a loan to Cork City. Expenses probably.
11/09/2009, 11:22 PM
juan

Stands to reason why a club employee was paid in cash on wednesday night from it.
12/09/2009, 1:28 PM
don ramo

jaysus i thought we made a balls of friendlies, poor Frank And Irene were they not reminded to be at the gates to get there money back,
13/09/2009, 3:44 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

Are the FAI not taking the Celtic money?

Is that a colloquialism for 'taking the p!ss'....?
14/09/2009, 1:28 PM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hairy Bowsie

Frank And Irene only do premium fudge

but the portions are huge;)
15/09/2009, 10:02 AM
Mr A

According to the Cork forum:

Quote:

The petition has gone in, but as the courts are in recess, it'll be heard whenever they come back.
15/09/2009, 10:15 AM
tiktok

The Mathews Case will probably be heard in October/November as well it seems.
15/09/2009, 10:35 AM
Mr A

Increasingly it seems to me that it may have been better to start afresh than have this slow motion train wreck continue, especially with thon plonker at the wheel.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page