Roy Keane

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Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat

He's not unlucky, just a bad manager. The team he has is good enough to be challegning for the play-offs at least. He spent close to £10m in the summer which is a lot of money. Thats more money than Preston, Blackpool even Newcastle and WBA. He has no man-management skills or knowledge of tactics. Keane has been found out. To most he was found last season at Sunderland. He got lucky at the SoL. Managers have gone for less.

No wins in 14 game in all comps is not unlucky but time to sack the manager before its to late.

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I'm no great fan of Roy Keane but I think it's bizarre that a Sunderland fan is complaining about Roy Keane.

If it wasn't for Keane Sunderland without a shadow of a doubt would still be in the Championship and given the state it was in when he took over, Sunderland would more likely be in League One as that was their standard when he took over.

Sunderland fans should go down on their knees and worship the ground Keane walks on every day of the week. There are supporters of teams in the Championship and League One such as Leeds who would give their right arm for what Keane done for Sunderland.

As for Ipswich, they don't seem to have great players and it's hard to do anything with players of limited ability. You cannot turn them into world beaters overnight.

I think though Keane is making an impression at Ipswich and slowly stopping the rot. He deserves time to turn Ipswich into a team who can challenge for promotion.

Jesus does a lot of weeping on this thread.

Keane inherited an average Ipswich team, spent a fair amount of dough for the championship and signed some players for free and so far turned them into a very bad team.

If he gets another 5 games with similiar results then Ipswich will have shown great patience with him but he will have to jump or be pushed.

I would like any Irishman to be sucessful as a manager but apart from his first season at Sunderland Keanes record is no great shakes.

He kept Sunderland up the second season which is in itself a major achievement.

I have no time for fly by night fans and Chairmen who want to dump the manager as soon as the team hit a bad patch.

Similiar idiots were calling for Alex Ferguson's head 20 years ago and now they are the same bandwagoners who have to be at every Champions League final Utd are at.

No time for fickle fans at all.

i think keane will be ok at ipswich. a few wins and they can climb the table fairly quickly. just to get that first win would be huge. playoff's is still a possibilty if they can just put a run together. but the championship has a lot of good teams in it this year and it will be tough.

Historically Ipswich are very patient with managers but they have a new owner and we will see how it goes.

He would be already sacked at a lot of clubs.

Trigger, get your walking boots on.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

He would be already sacked at a lot of clubs.

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Agreed, and Gareth Southgate is walking proof of that. That's a tough one to understand actually, sticking with Southgate even through relegation from the Premier League, then sacking him when they are 4th in the Championship have just overturned a run of 3 home defeats.

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Originally Posted by Serb

Agreed, and Gareth Southgate is walking proof of that. That's a tough one to understand actually, sticking with Southgate even through relegation from the Premier League, then sacking him when they are 4th in the Championship have just overturned a run of 3 home defeats.

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It was a decision based largely on financial reasons I would say. Boro had a record low attendance at their last home game before his sacking. Fans were beginning to desert the club in droves.

They still have a high wage bill and unless they are certain or promotion it's hard to pay that bill.

Keane on the other hand I'm sure gaurantees large attendences and is box office. Large attendences give you financial muscle.

Those in charge of Ipswich are probably assessing the situation week by week.

Keane is going nowhere. It's a matter of time before he wins his first league match with Ipswich. He would have been long gone already if the new owner didn't love him.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

They went onto a state of the art facility in Japan for their preparatory training beforehand you utter moron.

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Thanks, very constructive argument there:rolleyes:
They went there because ray tracey got it on the cheap, and the FAI had a nice junket
Go to a place with a football team where there are no football pitches before a world cup - yeah your right its clever:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Serb

Agreed, and Gareth Southgate is walking proof of that. That's a tough one to understand actually, sticking with Southgate even through relegation from the Premier League, then sacking him when they are 4th in the Championship have just overturned a run of 3 home defeats.

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But with the lowest attendance ever at the riverside....

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Thanks, very constructive argument there:rolleyes:
They went there because ray tracey got it on the cheap, and the FAI had a nice junket
Go to a place with a football team where there are no football pitches before a world cup - yeah your right its clever:rolleyes:

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You clearly haven't got a clue what you're on about and have swallowed the RK hype about Saipan so I'll leave you and your rolling eyes there.

He's drawn 5 of his last 7 games and one of those defeats was to Newcastle, the other was to a Barnsley winner 6 minutes into injury time. They were 3-2 up at Doncaster when Quinton Fortune scored a very rare goal with 5 minutes remaining, 3-1 up at Sheff Utd until they got an equaliser in injury time, and then they conceded an injury time equaliser against Watford on Tuesday.

If football was 80 minutes long he'd be up at the playoff places!!;)

As a player at Manchester United, he and the players around him worked their socks off for the 90 minutes plus 7 or 8 minutes injury time and were renowned for getting late goals. His luck has just turned as a manager but I've no doubt he will turn things around.

Too many draws and too many goals conceded late. They've only lost 2 games more than Middlesborough. I hope he gets his team in order cause I always liked Ipswich and they always gave Irish lads a chance.

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Originally Posted by Lenny82

I hope he gets his team in order cause I always liked Ipswich and they always gave Irish lads a chance.

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Would you mind telling Roy to give Garvan a chance?

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Originally Posted by Lenny82

I hope he gets his team in order cause I always liked Ipswich and they always gave Irish lads a chance.

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Sold Billy Clarke
Dropped Owen Garvan
Shane Supple left football completely (not necessarily Keane's fault, but happened during his stewardship)

Ipswich have collapsed under Keane

One of the reasons for the poor results has been the form of their keeper, Richard Wright who was dropped for the last game. Pity Shane Supple didn't stick around.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

Keane is going nowhere. It's a matter of time before he wins his first league match with Ipswich. He would have been long gone already if the new owner didn't love him.

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If he does not get some wins he will be going somewhere. No club not even Ipswich will keep a manager with these results. Ipswich fans will not keep turning up and as Gareth Southagate has found out "thats curtains"

Fans may start asserting their will in this manner more now that they know its a good way to oust a manager.

Hopefully he will prove his doubters (me and many others) wrong and make himself a success as a manager. Ipswich are definitely giving him a good go at it.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

If he does not get some wins he will be going somewhere. No club not even Ipswich will keep a manager with these results. Ipswich fans will not keep turning up and as Gareth Southagate has found out "thats curtains"

Fans may start asserting their will in this manner more now that they know its a good way to oust a manager.

Hopefully he will prove his doubters (me and many others) wrong and make himself a success as a manager. Ipswich are definitely giving him a good go at it.

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im not a doubter but i do hope he gets that win this weekend. a couple of wins can shoot them up the table and take a bit of the pressure of. then maybe he can add to the squad in jan(and get rid of a few). come on roy!!

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

If he does not get some wins he will be going somewhere. No club not even Ipswich will keep a manager with these results. Ipswich fans will not keep turning up and as Gareth Southagate has found out "thats curtains"

Fans may start asserting their will in this manner more now that they know its a good way to oust a manager.

Hopefully he will prove his doubters (me and many others) wrong and make himself a success as a manager. Ipswich are definitely giving him a good go at it.

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The new Ipswich owner is an arms dealer billionaire. I don't think he's worried about a few thousand supporters staying away from a handful of matches.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Sold Billy Clarke
Dropped Owen Garvan
Shane Supple left football completely (not necessarily Keane's fault, but happened during his stewardship)

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You can't blame Keane for Shane Supple packing it in.
Owen Garvan being dropped is a big surprise alright. I'll give you that.
Billy Clarke wasn't sold, he was released after spending about 3 years going out on loan all the time. Was hardly an established world beater in the Ipswich team.
I wasn't talking about Keane as such giving Irish lads a chance (although he has done), I was talking about Ipswich in general.

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Originally Posted by Lenny82

You can't blame Keane for Shane Supple packing it in.

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He didn't blame Keane to be fair, he used the qualifier 'not necessarily Keane's fault'. I personally think it was probably more than just a coincidence that he happened to retire under his management and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Keane was a factor in his retirement.

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Originally Posted by Lenny82

He's drawn 5 of his last 7 games and one of those defeats was to Newcastle, the other was to a Barnsley winner 6 minutes into injury time. They were 3-2 up at Doncaster when Quinton Fortune scored a very rare goal with 5 minutes remaining, 3-1 up at Sheff Utd until they got an equaliser in injury time, and then they conceded an injury time equaliser against Watford on Tuesday.

If football was 80 minutes long he'd be up at the playoff places!!;)

As a player at Manchester United, he and the players around him worked their socks off for the 90 minutes plus 7 or 8 minutes injury time and were renowned for getting late goals. His luck has just turned as a manager but I've no doubt he will turn things around.

Too many draws and too many goals conceded late. They've only lost 2 games more than Middlesborough. I hope he gets his team in order cause I always liked Ipswich and they always gave Irish lads a chance.

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I agree with all of this - they have lost less games than the 5 or 6 teams above them in the table.

The fans at Ipswich seem to be really getting behind the team and manager now - they gave the team a standing ovation at the end of their last game (Watford) and were chanting Keane's name through out the game as well.

If this was the stock market, I'd say that ITFC is an undervalued stock and a screaming good buy !!!

I hope RMK is successful at Ipswich - for me at least, keeping track of it is certainly a nice mindless distraction

I have never been a big Keane fan but I respect him on football and his knowledge. Getting Sunderland from bottom of the table to top of the Championship, well has any other manager every done that, and I don't mean after the first round of games but after 6 rounds of games. It was a great achievement.

Likewise at Ipswich you have people writing Keane off. But if Ipswich jump up the table and are in contention for the Premiership, some of the people writing him off will be wearing Ipswich jerseys and telling everyone how they always believed in Keane, just as with Sunderland. When they hit a bad patch the same fans will be writing him off again and calling for his head.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

They went onto a state of the art facility in Japan for their preparatory training beforehand you utter moron.

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They should have been there earlier. They could have done plenty of R 'n' R in Japan along with football training at world class facilities. There's some great hot springs in Japan for relaxing in.

I disagree with flying to Japan, and then flying another 10 hours halfway across the Pacific to laze about in a hotel for a week, just cause Mick's friend said it was a nice place.

The German team would never do something like that. Maybe that's why they keep getting so far with mostly average players.

Roy Keane was an obsessive professional, this is why he became such a world class player, even though he was still playing for Cobh Ramblers aged 19. He worked his arse off to get where he did. And then he is at the World Cup, a seriously weak World Cup I might add, and the Irish team's main form of preparation involves a week of golf in a resort. Of course he went mental...

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

You clearly haven't got a clue what you're on about and have swallowed the RK hype about Saipan so I'll leave you and your rolling eyes there.

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Me! Your the guy who thinks its a good plan to start a world cup with a rest:eek:

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Me! Your the guy who thinks its a good plan to start a world cup with a rest:eek:

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I'd say that's the norm rather then running the players into the ground at the end of a long season. Light training, team bonding and then down to serious business in Japan for the week before the first game.

All getting very groundhog day here mind.....

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

I'd say that's the norm rather then running the players into the ground at the end of a long season. Light training, team bonding and then down to serious business in Japan for the week before the first game.

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About the same as Brazil's preparations.

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Originally Posted by SunnySweeney

I agree with all of this - they have lost less games than the 5 or 6 teams above them in the table.

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That's a good point actually. They're dropped points late in a few games that'd have them higher than they are.

James Lawton wrote a good piece on Keane in today's Indo.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

The new Ipswich owner is an arms dealer billionaire.

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Eh, isn't he a conference organiser? That's his official job anyway, but am not sure if you can get that rich from conferences.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Me! Your the guy who thinks its a good plan to start a world cup with a rest:eek:

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I've read Ferguson say that by April, Man Utd's training consists of light ball work - they have played and have to play so many games that there's no point doing any fitness training. Keane never walked out of that. But, hey, maybe those guys have no idea how to prepare for a league title run-in and the later stages of the Champions League.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

That's a good point actually. They're dropped points late in a few games that'd have them higher than they are.

James Lawton wrote a good piece on Keane in today's Indo.

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Keane will come good

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Originally Posted by John83

I've read Ferguson say that by April, Man Utd's training consists of light ball work - they have played and have to play so many games that there's no point doing any fitness training. Keane never walked out of that. But, hey, maybe those guys have no idea how to prepare for a league title run-in and the later stages of the Champions League.

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Exactly. The heavy training in soccer, etc is usually before and during the winter. After that you just need a bit to tick over otherwise you burn out or get injured.

Heavy training two weeks before a major competition? It's a bit late then.

I'd say at the end of a long hard season, most professional soccer player's are ready to collapse and the last thing they need is more heavy training sessions or indeed any type of difficult training session.

Everyone needs a break now and again.

keane will improve ipswich...they have drawn more games than they have lost now,they are on the way to becoming hard to beat and once they start to close games out they will move up the table,i'd fancy them to finish around mid table

Only in the Med would "presidents" look to get rid of a coach as soon as the first few results don't go their way. RK came in late in the season, had a number of players who were not up to it and had to get the structures in order as well as get in the staff. I'm not a fan of RK but he will probably turn the club into a mid-table side by the turn of the New Year and push for a play-off spot in March. He doesn't have the same resources available for him as he did at Sundireland, despite his bosses lucrative business (he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporter) but he'll get it right.

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Originally Posted by weecountyman

he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporter

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Thanks for that, didn't know.

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Originally Posted by weecountyman

Only in the Med would "presidents" look to get rid of a coach as soon as the first few results don't go their way. RK came in late in the season, had a number of players who were not up to it and had to get the structures in order as well as get in the staff. I'm not a fan of RK but he will probably turn the club into a mid-table side by the turn of the New Year and push for a play-off spot in March. He doesn't have the same resources available for him as he did at Sundireland, despite his bosses lucrative business (he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporter) but he'll get it right.

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They might just bump Roy off rather than sack him. It would be easier than telling him he is sacked any way.

All of above is a joke in case anyone dangerous is reading it.:)

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Originally Posted by weecountyman

Only in the Med would "presidents" look to get rid of a coach as soon as the first few results don't go their way. RK came in late in the season, had a number of players who were not up to it and had to get the structures in order as well as get in the staff. I'm not a fan of RK but he will probably turn the club into a mid-table side by the turn of the New Year and push for a play-off spot in March. He doesn't have the same resources available for him as he did at Sundireland, despite his bosses lucrative business (he's the preferred Western Europe agent for Rosboronexport - the Russian state arms exporter) but he'll get it right.

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Those players that 'weren't up to it' had Ipswich comfortably midtable in a far better position then they are now under Jim Magilton who's doing alright at QPR now. Keane was backed with as much as if not more then he was at Sunderland money wise during the summer. Much as I'm not one to believe in knee jerk sackings the excuses being made for him that wouldn't be made for anyone else stagger me to be honest. It looks like his job is safe anyway so we'll see how the season pans out but there's no denying he's been a disaster so far.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

I have never been a big Keane fan but I respect him on football and his knowledge. Getting Sunderland from bottom of the table to top of the Championship, well has any other manager every done that, and I don't mean after the first round of games but after 6 rounds of games. It was a great achievement.

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It might not be as impressive a timeline but Keane's time at Sunderland does have comparisons with Kevin Keegan's first term as manager of Newcastle. In February 1992 He took over a team second from bottom of the old 2nd division. He helped them avoid relegation that season and then walked away with the championship the following season (with David Kelly as top scorer). They then had a good run in the premier league (and should have won the title in 1996) but ultimately Keegan didn't prove himself at the highest level.

We will postpone judgment on RMK for a few years yet.