Liverpool

I know what you are saying. But the point I am trying to make is Torries is injury prone. If someone offered 80 million, would Liverpool fans not be tempted to take the money and run.

Don't get me wrong Torres is a top striker but he seems to play less and less and will probably be out most of this season.

Would it not be better to have 2 or 3 good strikers who aren't injured all the time and who between them score more than Torres.

Without Torres Liverpool can look very blunt up front a lot of the time.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Would it not be better to have 2 or 3 good strikers who aren't injured all the time and who between them score more than Torres..

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I'd say they should have these anyway, with or without Torres. One of Liverpools main problems is strength in depth up front.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Without Torres Liverpool can look very blunt up front a lot of the time.

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Missing one of the best strikers in the world can do that to a team.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

Liverpool need to be a lot better to haul in City imo, I'll be surprised if they get 4th.

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With Mancini at the helm I'd be more confident of getting fourth

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Originally Posted by Roadend

With Mancini at the helm I'd be more confident of getting fourth

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What makes you think that?

Watching him almost cost City the match the other night mostly, I'd be a lot more confident of them dropping points due to his "what we have we hold" mentality. Grand in Italy but not in the PL.

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Originally Posted by Roadend

Watching him almost cost City the match the other night mostly, I'd be a lot more confident of them dropping points due to his "what we have we hold" mentality. Grand in Italy but not in the PL.

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They did seem to go into their shell a bit after taking the lead. Even Given was delaying picking up the ball and that kind of thing. I found it kind of strange really, you would think a one goal lead would have only been a minimum requirement going to OT. Having said that maybe they could have done with more of a "what we have we'll hold" attitude in some of their games under Hughes.

Liverpool will get fourth

When you take into account that Liverpool have had a dreadful season and hold it up against Spurs (who have been playing possibly a little above them) and City (about their level) and see that Liverpool are only a point behind those sides you see that if Liverpool come into any sort of form they will easily secure the CL spot

You know things are bad when you only get a draw with Wolves, having barely created a chance, and you think you've turned a corner

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Originally Posted by jebus

Liverpool will get fourth

When you take into account that Liverpool have had a dreadful season and hold it up against Spurs (who have been playing possibly a little above them) and City (about their level) and see that Liverpool are only a point behind those sides you see that if Liverpool come into any sort of form they will easily secure the CL spot

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Or an alternative view, Liverpool have overachieved in recent years and are getting found out now, really Torres & Gerrard apart their squad is pretty weak

Bennayoun, Mascherano, Skyrtel, Agger, Johnson & Reina are good players but it's beneath that the problems are..I couldn't see Carragher in any other top half team, ditto Lucas & a few others who are regulars, even Kuyt who's having the season of his life is basically rubbish and would be a rotating striker anywhere else

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Originally Posted by endabob1

even Kuyt who's having the season of his life

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What the hell:confused:

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

What the hell:confused:

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My thoughts exactly

might be a typo, leaving out the "isn't" ?

Kuyt will never set the world alight with his skills, but I personally think over the past couple of months he is one of the only Liverpool players to come out of their “crisis” with any credit. He’s work rate is 2nd to none and he just never gives up, he chips in with the odd goal and never complains or is in the papers mouthing off. If only Liverpool has a few more players as committed to the cause as this guy is, I don’t think they would be struggling the way they are at present.

I can't believe i've said that about Kuyt ! ha :D

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Originally Posted by Roo69

I can't believe i've said that about Kuyt ! ha :D

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This is about the only part of your post I can relate to!! Of course Kuyt isn't complaining, the guy is living the dream. With all of Benitez's rotational policies he plays Kuyt every single game without fail. He actually played in 38/38 League matches last season. He gets far too much praise for his work rate in my opinion, that's should be a minimum requirement for any player, especially one as limited as he is.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

This is about the only part of your post I can relate to!! Of course Kuyt isn't complaining, the guy is living the dream. With all of Benitez's rotational policies he plays Kuyt every single game without fail. He actually played in 38/38 League matches last season. He gets far too much praise for his work rate in my opinion, that's should be a minimum requirement for any player, especially one as limited as he is.

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I would agree with you, It should be a minimum requirement for any player, its not. Very few players work consistantly hard week in week out, Kuyt does even if he is quite limited, but every manager has their favopurite players and will get more game time than most, again that is apart of football

I know, I just think people go overboard about how hard he works. There are plenty of players out there that work just as hard but are actually good. Benayoun has a fantastic work rate and is on another planet to Kuyt, footballing wise, but is only in and out of the team. Ultimately the players have to be judged on their overall contribution and on that score he's getting away with murder.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I know, I just think people go overboard about how hard he works. There are plenty of players out there that work just as hard but are actually good. Benayoun has a fantastic work rate and is on another planet to Kuyt, footballing wise, but is only in and out of the team. Ultimately the players have to be judged on their overall contribution and on that score he's getting away with murder.

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I don't think he is though, in the Liverpool side he is one of the hardest working players along with the likes of Benayoun (who should be getting a lot more starts than he is). In the Liverpool team over the 5/6 months he has contributed and offered a lot more than most of his team mates.

Not sure why the reaction to my Kuyt comments, as Roo69 says he's one of the few players at Liverpool to emerge with any credit this season. He works hard and has been a mainstay in the side when Torres & Gerrard have been out. Don't get me wrong I think he's Rubbish (as I stated) but his form this season have been much much imporved.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

Not sure why the reaction to my Kuyt comments, as Roo69 says he's one of the few players at Liverpool to emerge with any credit this season. He works hard and has been a mainstay in the side when Torres & Gerrard have been out. Don't get me wrong I think he's Rubbish (as I stated) but his form this season have been much much imporved.

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I think he has been completely rubbish this season. He was actually better last season where he had a semi-decent run of form in the first half of the season particularly. The thing is that he had fellas around him last season in good form, now nearly everybody is playing rubbish so he doesn't stand out as much. If you have Lucas & N'Gog to critisise it will naturally take some of the emphasis of Kuyt, it doesn't mean he's after improving it just means there actually a couple of players worse than him now. I really don't see the big deal about his work ethic, fair enough it's one box that he ticks successfully but it doesn't make up for his lack of vision, finishing ability, crossing ability, ability to control the ball, etc, etc, etc.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I think he has been completely rubbish this season. He was actually better last season where he had a semi-decent run of form in the first half of the season particularly. The thing is that he had fellas around him last season in good form, now nearly everybody is playing rubbish so he doesn't stand out as much. If you have Lucas & N'Gog to critisise it will naturally take some of the emphasis of Kuyt, it doesn't mean he's after improving it just means there actually a couple of players worse than him now. I really don't see the big deal about his work ethic, fair enough it's one box that he ticks successfully but it doesn't make up for his lack of vision, finishing ability, crossing ability, ability to control the ball, etc, etc, etc.

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Just one thing on Dirk Kuyt, I'm not his biggest fan but i do give him credit for trying to be sucessful in a position that is not the one he was playing in before he signed, You only have to look at his scoring record in Holland(i know its a weaker league) to see that he is/was a striker. He has never complained about playing out of position like a lot of players have, he has got his head down and worked for the good of the team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_Kuyt

just wondering what people think of the aquillaini situation , I'm starting to think its similar to the robbie keane one where benitez has pais huge money for a player then then decided fairly quickly that he dose nt fancy him gives him the cold shoulder & ultimatley moves him on .

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Originally Posted by liv4ever

just wondering what people think of the aquillaini situation , I'm starting to think its similar to the robbie keane one where benitez has pais huge money for a player then then decided fairly quickly that he dose nt fancy him gives him the cold shoulder & ultimatley moves him on .

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how much do you think he paid for him and do you know why he is not in the team? Or have you been listening to Ronnie Whelan,Andy Gray etc... do some research before assuming everyting you read in the tabloids and watch on SSN is the truth. BTW Benitez has been proved 100% correct to move Keane on, its actually a miracle he recouped so much money back off spurs for him. The problem wasn't Benitez it was Keane.

10 goals this season from right side Kuyt 15 last season not bad for a rubbish player! If only he was good!

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Originally Posted by Rafa B

10 goals this season from right side Kuyt 15 last season not bad for a rubbish player! If only he was good!

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in fairness to kuyt he was playing as striker in holland , when he signed for liverpool benetiz has used him as wide man / mid fielder give kuyt credit as he never once complained and always gave 100% for team
would be intresting to see if he would be let play up front with torres for a season or half /season just to see how he would do ..

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Originally Posted by old git

in fairness to kuyt he was playing as striker in holland , when he signed for liverpool benetiz has used him as wide man / mid fielder give kuyt credit as he never once complained and always gave 100% for team
would be intresting to see if he would be let play up front with torres for a season or half /season just to see how he would do ..

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In my opinion i reckon he wouldn't be allowed but would like to see it myself.

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Originally Posted by Rafa B

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In my opinion i reckon he wouldn't be allowed but would like to see it myself.

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strange benetiz wont play him up front !! prefer's ngog ... surely kuyt deserves his chance to see if he can produce the goals as main striker

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Originally Posted by papa-j

how much do you think he paid for him and do you know why he is not in the team? Or have you been listening to Ronnie Whelan,Andy Gray etc... do some research before assuming everyting you read in the tabloids and watch on SSN is the truth. BTW Benitez has been proved 100% correct to move Keane on, its actually a miracle he recouped so much money back off spurs for him. The problem wasn't Benitez it was Keane.

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I think this season has proved the problem is Benitez. Dont get me wrong though, I hope he gets to see out his contract as any team managed by him will not win trophies in english football.

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Originally Posted by rava

I think this season has proved the problem is Benitez. Dont get me wrong though, I hope he gets to see out his contract as any team managed by him will not win trophies in english football.

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did he not win an f.a. cup for liverpool ??? .. also english football now seems to be judged on winning a league title or champions league which seems to be the big one these days ( press & media) and his record not to bad in this ..

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Originally Posted by rava

I think this season has proved the problem is Benitez. Dont get me wrong though, I hope he gets to see out his contract as any team managed by him will not win trophies in english football.

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can you explain your statement about Benitez being the problem this year?

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Originally Posted by papa-j

can you explain your statement about Benitez being the problem this year?

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I'll have a go.

In my opinion the man has taken them as far as he can. They are an absolute disaster of a team & a squad. They are relying on 3 players, Gerrard, Reina & Torres. Rafa inherited 1 of them.
They play horrible football with no style.
He has proven himself a plonker in the transfer market. Selling Alonso was beyond a joke. Selling Crouch similiar. (I know these two points have been reiterated a billion times)
I don't buy the argument that he has broken even in the transfer market so its ok that he has spent millions, he still spent millions. On muck.
Liverpool are light years away from a league championship or a champions league.
His starting 11 V Stoke in January which pretty much was a flat back eight with a right midfielder & a striker was good craic.
Regardless of the nonsense going on behind the scenes at LFC, Rafa has over the last 5 years, been given money, he has squandered it and he is now struggling to finish fourth in the P.L. The current squad has been assembled by Rafa. It is a very, very poor squad.
If I had a ball of money to invest in LFC in the morning, I would struggle to do so in the knowledge that Rafa would be shopping with my millions.
His time is up.

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Originally Posted by Norm

He has proven himself a plonker in the transfer market. Selling Alonso was beyond a joke. Selling Crouch similiar. (I know these two points have been reiterated a billion times)

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Both these players chose to leave, granted the Alonso reasons were because Rafa tried to flog him to Juve to get a few bob to sign Barry but Crouch wanted first team football and with Torres & Gerrard, Rafa couldn't guarantee him that.

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Originally Posted by papa-j

can you explain your statement about Benitez being the problem this year?

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I can understand supporters trying to jusify decisions of their manager but the cold hard facts is Rafa is a control freak, he has made some shocking decisions just to prove his might. What he did to Keane was disgraceful, the way he courted Barry in front of Alonso was laughable and his persistence in playing sub standard players eg Lucas is costing liverpool. You could only admire the way they played in the latter half of last season but this season has seen them revert back to the same old negatiive muck. Even on this resurgent run of theirs the football has been terrible on the eye, I can honestly say that the Everton game last week was the worst quality game of the season although it was compelling viewing.

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Originally Posted by razor

Both these players chose to leave, granted the Alonso reasons were because Rafa tried to flog him to Juve to get a few bob to sign Barry but Crouch wanted first team football and with Torres & Gerrard, Rafa couldn't guarantee him that.

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Thats a fair point, but it still does not excuse the fact that he sold two quality footballers and failed on any level to replace them.

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Originally Posted by papa-j

BTW Benitez has been proved 100% correct to move Keane on

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How do you figure this out? Just because Harry Redknapp prefers Defoe and has the brains to see that Crouch is more than just a squad man, this proves Benitez right? what about the fact that he has to play Ngog every time Torres is missing, which is nearly all the time!! Unless you actually think Ngog is contributing more than Keane would (which I'll give you some undeserved credit and assume not), then I don't see at all how Benitez has been remotely proved right.

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Originally Posted by papa-j

how much do you think he paid for him and do you know why he is not in the team? Or have you been listening to Ronnie Whelan,Andy Gray etc... do some research before assuming everyting you read in the tabloids and watch on SSN is the truth. BTW Benitez has been proved 100% correct to move Keane on, its actually a miracle he recouped so much money back off spurs for him. The problem wasn't Benitez it was Keane.

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Could you explain to me why he's not in the team? He was out injured up until November or so but since then he's started very few games. If certain games don't "suit" his style then it shows up the signing as the absolute disaster it's been so far. Also, by the time he was fully fit Liverpool were out of the title race. If they had bought a midfielder that could have played from August then they would certainly have made a better start rather than relying on Lucas and Mascherano for creativity. At the moment Liverpool have signed a midfielder that doesn't play. That is Benitez's fault.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

How do you figure this out? Just because Harry Redknapp prefers Defoe and has the brains to see that Crouch is more than just a squad man, this proves Benitez right? what about the fact that he has to play Ngog every time Torres is missing, which is nearly all the time!! Unless you actually think Ngog is contributing more than Keane would (which I'll give you some undeserved credit and assume not), then I don't see at all how Benitez has been remotely proved right.

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Keanes club form for the past 18 months has been very poor. Benitez realised he was no longer the player he used to be or was not the player he thoght he was and shipped him out. In theory Keane was a great signing but he obviously didn't cut it up close day to day. Robbie was miserable, it was plain to see in his body language, Spurs came in really strong for him and it made sense for everyone to do the deal. Liverpools form at the end of last year proved that.I think Rafa would have persisted with Robbie but when Spurs came in with a very good offer both the player and club made the right decision.

I have a problem that we did not sign another striker in the summer but I think its fair to say thats more to do with a lack of funds than any Rafa reasons. I dont see your point with Crouch, he wanted to go, so much so that he signed for Portsmouth for gods sake. Ngog is raw and has a lot to learn but he still has 4 premiership goals this season, thats on a par with many of the so called established Premiership players, Crouch has 5, Pavlyuchenko has none, Carew has 4, heskey has 2, Owen has 2, Walcott has 1.

To answer your smarted arse question Keane scored 6 goals for spurs, 4 of which were in one game so yes I do think Ngog is contributing as much as Keane and has a much better attitude aswell.

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Originally Posted by Ciprian Marica

Could you explain to me why he's not in the team? He was out injured up until November or so but since then he's started very few games. If certain games don't "suit" his style then it shows up the signing as the absolute disaster it's been so far. Also, by the time he was fully fit Liverpool were out of the title race. If they had bought a midfielder that could have played from August then they would certainly have made a better start rather than relying on Lucas and Mascherano for creativity. At the moment Liverpool have signed a midfielder that doesn't play. That is Benitez's fault.

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Thats the problem, he is not fully fit. His injury has not healed as quickly as originally diagnosed, it happens sometimes. If Liverpool had the money they would have signed a fit midfielder of the appropiate quality. Aqualani cost 5 million up front and has massive potential. Tell me what player of quality could you sign for 5 million?He was not signed for the first half of the season obviously and will play his part yet. Judge after more than 5 or 6 games in all fairness. He was not in the squad for the Arsenal game because he was ill, no mystery, no rotation, no Rafa tinkering, the lad was ill simple as that. - it happens and it was publicly announced by the club. The club is broke, Rafa is shopping in the Eurosaver shop for players who are free agents or cost a couple of million, has to sell squad players just to afford to extend other players contracts. Yet you come on here and ask why didn't they buy this player or he has signed a crock. You should spend less time playing football manager or watching Sky sports and at least take the time to research some facts about the subject you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by papa-j

... I have a problem that we did not sign another striker in the summer but I think its fair to say thats more to do with a lack of funds than any Rafa reasons. I dont see your point with Crouch, he wanted to go, so much so that he signed for Portsmouth for gods sake. Ngog is raw and has a lot to learn but he still has 4 premiership goals this season, thats on a par with many of the so called established Premiership players, Crouch has 5, Pavlyuchenko has none, Carew has 4, heskey has 2, Owen has 2, Walcott has 1.

To answer your smarted arse question Keane scored 6 goals for spurs, 4 of which were in one game so yes I do think Ngog is contributing as much as Keane and has a much better attitude aswell.

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Ngog has 4 goals in 770 mins, Pavlychenko has no goals in 4 premier league games (in which he's played the total of around 60 mins) to compare him to Ngog this season is silly. Ngog just isnt premier league standard, hence why Jovanovic is probably joining next season. I would imagine Ngog will slip behind Nemeth next season given the Hungarian's form at AEK (3 goals in 7 matches)

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Ngog has 4 goals in 770 mins, Pavlychenko has no goals in 4 premier league games (in which he's played the total of around 60 mins) to compare him to Ngog this season is silly. Ngog just isnt premier league standard, hence why Jovanovic is probably joining next season. I would imagine Ngog will slip behind Nemeth next season given the Hungarian's form at AEK (3 goals in 7 matches)

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Pavlychenko is relevant. The discussion was about how effective is Ngog is compared to the OP's assertion that Keane would do a better job. The fact that Redknapp does not play Pavlychenko and yet still let Keane go to Celtic speaks volumes about Keanes efectiveness.

Ngog has a long way to go in terms of development but he has raw talent and a huge appitite for work. His record you pointed out is a goal every 2 games or so. Thats not bad considering how underrated he appears to be.

I think you'll find that Ngogs record of 4 in 770 mins is better than Nemeths 3 in 630 min and in a much superior competition but lets not let facts get in the way, thats just silly.;)

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Originally Posted by papa-j

how much do you think he paid for him and do you know why he is not in the team? Or have you been listening to Ronnie Whelan,Andy Gray etc... do some research before assuming everyting you read in the tabloids and watch on SSN is the truth. BTW Benitez has been proved 100% correct to move Keane on, its actually a miracle he recouped so much money back off spurs for him. The problem wasn't Benitez it was Keane.

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From what i've read the fee is to be paid in four cash installments:
€5m upfront
€3m by 4th January 2010
€7m by June 30th 2010
€5m by June 30th 2011
There are some add on's that will bring the final total to around 22.5m
I don't know exactly why he is n't in the team but why pay so much for a player who as of yet has n't secured a regular place in the team 7 months after he's been signed ? Benitez is to stubborn for his own good thats his problem i mean he sold keane last january when we were challanging for the title & actualy imo handicapped the team because we had nt a suitable replacement .Are you saying we could nt have recouped that money for keane 5 months later in the summer ? & maybe while he was there he could ve added the vital odd goal in one of those 11 games we drew that ultimatley cost the league ... Aquillaini was bought as alonso s replacement not as a filler for when gerrard is injured , it's another mistake in a long list of mistakes by the manager in the transfere market