UEFA Coefficient

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

That point has been made for years.

In fairness though, the top team in Poland are probably no better than Arsenal, so the idea from UEFA's perspective is to allow more in from the better leagues to take account of the difference in quality.

The Champions League is all about stopping Europes top clubs from running off and setting up the proverbial European Super League, and the price that's paid for footballing unity is the likes of Arsenal getting parachuted into the CL at the stage just before the groups. Footballling politics is the art of the possible.

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In addition to this, Platini's changes have meant that Krakow are much more likely to get a winnable tie to get into the group stages - you may think it's unfair that Fiorentina/Celtic/Atletico Madrid are only one (or two for Celtic) games away from the group stages, but these three teams are unseeded in their final qualifying round.

Essentially what this means is that given a favourable draw, we now have a Cypriot team, a Latvian team and a Hungarian team only one game away from Champions League group stages - while still a pipe dream for Irish clubs, it is now a little easier than it was before. Conversely, there is no chance of a glamour tie for the CL team against any team from the top 12 leagues.

But how happy would any Irish team be in Nicosia's situation? A two legged tie against Copenhagen for entry to the Champions League group stage, with guaranteed Europa League group stage for the winner...

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Originally Posted by bigmac

In addition to this, Platini's changes have meant that Krakow are much more likely to get a winnable tie to get into the group stages - you may think it's unfair that Fiorentina/Celtic/Atletico Madrid are only one (or two for Celtic) games away from the group stages, but these three teams are unseeded in their final qualifying round.

Essentially what this means is that given a favourable draw, we now have a Cypriot team, a Latvian team and a Hungarian team only one game away from Champions League group stages - while still a pipe dream for Irish clubs, it is now a little easier than it was before. Conversely, there is no chance of a glamour tie for the CL team against any team from the top 12 leagues.

But how happy would any Irish team be in Nicosia's situation? A two legged tie against Copenhagen for entry to the Champions League group stage, with guaranteed Europa League group stage for the winner...

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i initially thought so too bigmac but i think an opening tie against a team of the calibre of Salzburg put that theory to bed (for me anyway). It all depends on our champions getting into that top tier of seeds in the QR2 (this is the biggest hurdle but we are close) and then getting a favourable draw the rest of the way.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

i initially thought so too bigmac but i think an opening tie against a team of the calibre of Salzburg put that theory to bed (for me anyway). It all depends on our champions getting into that top tier of seeds in the QR2 (this is the biggest hurdle but we are close) and then getting a favourable draw the rest of the way.

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True enough, it would take a pretty strange series of results to give an Irish team a chance, but the rejigged qualification method doesn't make it any more difficult. As you say, we're not far away from the top tier of seeds in QR2 and in that case, any team should be expected to progress to Q3.
At our current position, this round should be viewed basically as a possible entry to the Europa League. We have seen in the past few years, occasional results against bigger teams (Russians, Danish, Swedish etc..) so it is not too difficult to imagine an Irish team getting through this round at some stage.
When the new format was announced I predicted (to a mate) that a LOI team would make the Europa League group stages within 5 years, and I stand by that prediction.

In summary; a seeding in QR2 means that the LOI champions will begin with a tie against a seriously beatable team from the lower reaches of Europe. A win in this means that the champions are only one tie away from the Europa League group stages.

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Originally Posted by bigmac

True enough,....

In summary; a seeding in QR2 means that the LOI champions will begin with a tie against a seriously beatable team from the lower reaches of Europe. A win in this means that the champions are only one tie away from the Europa League group stages.

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I think once UEFA set up the UEFA Group stages, than it's pretty sure that eventual there would be a place for a LoI sidein the UEFA Cup groups.
[Obviously Europa League Groups is entirely different.]

Please remember this is ground trampled by LoI sides in the past, they are just a little polite not to mention it all the time.

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Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

Please remember this is ground trampled by LoI sides in the past, they are just a little polite not to mention it all the time.

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I'm well aware of that, but the positive ramifications of any form of "group stage" football in the modern game are much larger than at any point in the past.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

i initially thought so too bigmac but i think an opening tie against a team of the calibre of Salzburg put that theory to bed (for me anyway).

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What calibre wouyld that be exactly ?!? :confused:

The kind that was 3mins away from goign out to an Irish side, until saved by a defensive error.

You're giving Salzburg way too much respect there.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

What calibre wouyld that be exactly ?!? :confused:

The kind that was 3mins away from goign out to an Irish side, until saved by a defensive error.

You're giving Salzburg way too much respect there.

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really? I dont think i am, i think im being realistic.

granted i dont think they ever made the group stages themselves, but, as well as Janko, Ilic, Dudic and Zickler, they have numerous other decent international players not to mention that they have a budget far in excess of any LoI budget due to their huge sponsor. They are on the verge of making the group stages themselves. They were managed by our current national team manager. They are not necessarily a model to admire but they are certainly on a different level to any Irish club (on and off the pitch) even if they werent very convincing against us in the return game.

anyway, my original point was that we need to get out of the bottom tier of seeds and then stay out so that we avoid having to play these kind of tough games in the future. It could have been Copenhagen, Sofia, Partizan Belgrade, Maccabi Haifa, Zagreb, Wisla Krakow, BATE... it doesnt matter that it was Salzburg.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

anyway, my original point was that we need to get out of the bottom tier of seeds and then stay out so that we avoid having to play these kind of tough games in the future. It could have been Copenhagen, Sofia, Partizan Belgrade, Maccabi Haifa, Zagreb, Wisla Krakow, BATE... it doesnt matter that it was Salzburg.

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This is a bit like the chicken and the egg scenario - we'll only get out of the bottom seeds if we win a tie like this.

BATE were beaten by Ventspils of Latvia - who then went on to play FC Zurich last night. This is not that tough a route to the Champions League - and obviously the Europa League when they lose.

BATE only got to be seeded on the back of their results the previous year when they made the group stages and picked up points.

I think it's fair enough to say that our clubs don't deserve to be in the group stages of the competitions if they can't compete against this calibre of club.

Another good example is Debrecen of Hungary who were seeded below Bohs.

They were drawn against the Swedish Champions, Kalmar and were then drawn against the winners of Levadia Tallinn v Wisla Krakow, which happened to be Tallinn and last night won away at Levski Sofia.

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Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

This is a bit like the chicken and the egg scenario - we'll only get out of the bottom seeds if we win a tie like this.

BATE were beaten by Ventspils of Latvia - who then went on to play FC Zurich last night. This is not that tough a route to the Champions League - and obviously the Europa League when they lose.

BATE only got to be seeded on the back of their results the previous year when they made the group stages and picked up points.

I think it's fair enough to say that our clubs don't deserve to be in the group stages of the competitions if they can't compete against this calibre of club.

Another good example is Debrecen of Hungary who were seeded below Bohs.

They were drawn against the Swedish Champions, Kalmar and were then drawn against the winners of Levadia Tallinn v Wisla Krakow, which happened to be Tallinn and last night won away at Levski Sofia.

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The thing is though, if Irish League clubs, League Of Ireland Clubs and other clubs of similar stature, where given the right to start in the Champions League like the champions of any of the top countries, the money that these small clubs would get as well as the exposure of the league will no doubt help to narrow the gap.

The way the CL and EURO League is set up is only to serve to make the rich teams richer and the small poor teams smaller and poorer.

If an Irish club got The £6-£15M for being hte CL, their is no doubts the team would get stronger and the following season be more competitive

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

The thing is though, if Irish League clubs, League Of Ireland Clubs and other clubs of similar stature, where given the right to start in the Champions League like the champions of any of the top countries, the money that these small clubs would get as well as the exposure of the league will no doubt help to narrow the gap.

The way the CL and EURO League is set up is only to serve to make the rich teams richer and the small poor teams smaller and poorer.

If an Irish club got The £6-£15M for being hte CL, their is no doubts the team would get stronger and the following season be more competitive

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Newton's third law of motion applies here...... If the CL was full of small clubs from weak leagues they wouldn't be getting that amount of money as the sponsors want to see only the rich, big clubs.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

The way the CL and EURO League is set up is only to serve to make the rich teams richer and the small poor teams smaller and poorer.

If an Irish club got The £6-£15M for being hte CL, their is no doubts the team would get stronger and the following season be more competitive

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If you do that are you not just passing on a similar problem to national leagues? If one club in the LOI got that sort of money they would be miles ahead of the rest financially and thus the gap of standard would increase even more, eventually leading to one team dominating.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

The thing is though, if Irish League clubs, League Of Ireland Clubs and other clubs of similar stature, where given the right to start in the Champions League like the champions of any of the top countries, the money that these small clubs would get as well as the exposure of the league will no doubt help to narrow the gap.

The way the CL and EURO League is set up is only to serve to make the rich teams richer and the small poor teams smaller and poorer.

If an Irish club got The £6-£15M for being hte CL, their is no doubts the team would get stronger and the following season be more competitive

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Here - what's this about the LOI and Irish League being of similar stature ? Do you follow European results/co-efficients at all....? :p

;)

I think we are moving from 30th up to the 29th ranked club which would have
1 Seeded Championsleague 2nd Qualifying round
1 Unseeded 3rd Qualifying round for the Europa League (same round as pats tonight)
2 Seeded 2nd Qualifying round of Europa League
and 1 Seeded 1st Qualifying round of the Europa League
So one Extra European place for the LOI if i am correct??? I think this is a year behind though?

That doesn't sound right. I don't think there's a 5th team until you get to the top 15 or something.

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Originally Posted by Schumi

That doesn't sound right. I don't think there's a 5th team until you get to the top 15 or something.

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http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...ccess2009.html

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Originally Posted by citybone

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...ccess2009.html

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This was explained already.

Notice how the text highlighted in red and green is exactly the same - it means the red text has been crossed through and replaced by the green text. Someone else can point you to the post explaining it, but I think it was because last years uefa cup winner qualified for the champions league, so a few of the higher seeded teams got to move up a bit

ie. Derry should have started in the same round as Sligo this year, but got moved up to start with Pats.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

This was explained already.

Notice how the text highlighted in red and green is exactly the same - it means the red text has been crossed through and replaced by the green text. Someone else can point you to the post explaining it, but I think it was because last years uefa cup winner qualified for the champions league, so a few of the higher seeded teams got to move up a bit

ie. Derry should have started in the same round as Sligo this year, but got moved up to start with Pats.

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The basic point is correct albeit it depends on the champions league winner qualifying through their league (normally OK) and the UEFA Cup winner qualifying for the champions league (good chance).

It won't apply until next season though.

We are 30th in the access list for this season which means our cup winner has a good chance of being exempt until the 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League. The downside of this though is they lose the opportunity to pick up coefficient points for the national coefficient. They do gain a good club coefficient though.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/loi/news.asp?n=37034

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Originally Posted by SkStu

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/loi/news.asp?n=37034

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About time we got into the group stages then.

E eye e eye o