John O'Shea

Agree with OBrien against Sweden, was a bag o nerves, but so far JOS has been one of those irish players that unusually does it for club but not for country. normally its the other way round but lets hope this run can inspire him to do the business for éire.

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

I hate to be so pessimistic when it comes to jos. I know that he is playing well at present but so are all the Man U players, so confidence is obviously very high in the camp.I watched him come through the youth scene and he showed great potential but has not shown this form since.He is defo playing better football but I wont hold my breath until I see more consistently when he does it week in week out with club and country.I really hope for Irelands sake and his own that he pulls it off though.

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Farbag you're being realistic. JOS is not a central midfield player, he is only filling in a gap until the summer when Ferguson will go out and buy a decent holding player. I'd hate to see JOS being employed regularly there for Ireland (it was bad enough seeing him at left back). He could really f**k things up in central midfield. What can he do? He doesn't offer a gold threat, has no shooting ability, can't pass the ball, can't run at the opposition. He's a very limited player and if Stan sticks with him as Kerr did I see another fruitless two years.

For the moment I'd play Kavanagh and S Reid. Maybe even bring on fat A Reid and stick him in the centre if we need some creativity (though he needs to start getting a few games first). Hopefully Ireland or J O'Brien (or even Garvan) will progress enough early next season to help make JOS a distant memory in the Ireland team.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Hopefully Ireland or J O'Brien (or even Garvan) will progress enough early next season to help make JOS a distant memory in the Ireland team.

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what a load of nonsense. we have very few players playing at the highest level for their clubs and yet you never want to see one of the few we have who is playing at the top of his game for a team at the top of their game playing for Ireland again?!!

would love to know the reasons why

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

I hate to be so pessimistic when it comes ....... hope for Irelands sake and his own that he pulls it off though.

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This is probably the best post of the last few pages on this thread. He has been consistently disappointing for Ireland over the past two campaigns for Ireland, of that I think most people would acknowledge. Perhaps its been his lack of agression that we dislike, I dunno. But it has always been obvious that he has talent, but it would seem to me anyway that his career, up until Keane's recent comments;) , had stagnated.

The upshot is that he seems to have caught on to himself and his recent form suggests so. If he can put in a season's worth and carry this form onto the Irish games then happy days ; until this happens he will still have it all to prove.

Either way Stephen Reid is #1 choice for Central Midfield.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

what a load of nonsense. we have very few players playing at the highest level for their clubs and yet you never want to see one of the few we have who is playing at the top of his game for a team at the top of their game playing for Ireland again?!!

would love to know the reasons why

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Thought that would have been obvious. JOS has had several impressive spells with MU, but he has not has ONE impressive game for us YET. I dont give a fiddler's f**k how well he plays for MU, I am only interested in how well he plays for Ireland.

There is no doubt the boy has talent but it is frustrating to see him regularly play well for his club and then to produce quite frankly what have been embarrassing displays for us (v Switzerland in Basle 2003, v Cyprus in Nicosia 2005, although he wasnt the only one, and v Switzerland in Dublin 2005, as examples).

I want to see him do well for us. I hope he has two blinders against Chile and Holland in CM, in which case he will have earned his place in CM against Germany. I believe Staunton will not play him as a LB or CH if he is not playing there and playing well in either of those positions for MU. I think even Ferguson has decided that he will only play him there in an emergency because he simply cannot defend.

If he continues to play well for MU and continues to disappoint for us, how long should Staunton persevere him? Not too long, IMHO.

O'Shea was muck against Switzerland that night but picking both he & Holland together in a game we had to win was madness. It was like picking Ray Wilkins twice.

Nobody's getting carried away but it's fair to point out that his form in CM for United has been decent (not excellent, but not crap either) and that wouldn't it be great if he could develop into a reliable central midfielder for Ireland.

As far as I'm concerned I'm only marking his Ireland card from the Sweden game onwards. His left-back chapter is closed. O'Shea & Holland as a pairing was never going to work - they're both similar, cautious players without any penetration. At least OI'Shea has now been playing there for United. He didn't do much of note against Sweden though I'd agree with JPM when he said that Reid & he dovetailed well.

Steve Reid is the undisputed no. 1 choice for midfield in my opinion, so who partners him? Andy Reid could do a job there if he was fit & playing regularly (how likely does that look at the moment?), while Miller & Douglas are playing in the Championship and not with any great success recently. Alan Quinn's been injured and was dropped anyway before that. Stephen Ireland is a bright prospect but only a kid, likewise Garvan. Kilbane in CM? Yikes.

Much as I like Kavanagh he's yet to put in a quality performance for Ireland and even Steven Reid has yet to play a big competitive game for us.

Based on this I'd say O'Shea's claim to a CM place is at least as good as any other candidate, and better than most. It'll be up to Stan to get it sorted by Germany & it's quite a tough ask. I hope Miller & Douglas both get to play in the PL next year.

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Thought that would have been obvious. JOS has had several impressive spells with MU, but he has not has ONE impressive game for us YET. I dont give a fiddler's f**k how well he plays for MU, I am only interested in how well he plays for Ireland.

There is no doubt the boy has talent but it is frustrating to see him regularly play well for his club and then to produce quite frankly what have been embarrassing displays for us (v Switzerland in Basle 2003, v Cyprus in Nicosia 2005, although he wasnt the only one, and v Switzerland in Dublin 2005, as examples).

I want to see him do well for us. I hope he has two blinders against Chile and Holland in CM, in which case he will have earned his place in CM against Germany. I believe Staunton will not play him as a LB or CH if he is not playing there and playing well in either of those positions for MU. I think even Ferguson has decided that he will only play him there in an emergency because he simply cannot defend.

If he continues to play well for MU and continues to disappoint for us, how long should Staunton persevere him? Not too long, IMHO.

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I too was disappointed with some of his previous performances but some of the criticism of him is well over the top. to say that he should never play for Ireland again, particularly at a time when he is playing so well, is ridiculous beyond words.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

what a load of nonsense. we have very few players playing at the highest level for their clubs and yet you never want to see one of the few we have who is playing at the top of his game for a team at the top of their game playing for Ireland again?!!

would love to know the reasons why

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Have you ever watched O'Shea play? The top of his game? What are you talking about? He'll be dropped next season. Tell me what he'd bring to an Ireland team playing in central midfield. I've explained his limitations as a footballer. Why not hold out some hope that some of our younger players will be better? Let's be honest they could hardly be any worse for Ireland.

O'Shea has had his chance for far too long at International football and proved he can't hack it. How long more do the Man U supporters want us to stick with him? How many more tournaments should we miss by playing this liability?

People seem to think because O'Shea is playing for United he should be automatically guaranteed a starting place in the Ireland team. I think that's bo**ox. Would we give Gary Neville or Darren Fletcher a game also if they were Irish? I hope not.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

I too was disappointed with some of his previous performances but some of the criticism of him is well over the top. to say that he should never play for Ireland again, particularly at a time when he is playing so well, is ridiculous beyond words.

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I certainly have never said he should never play for Ireland again. However we cannot afford to have him in the team just on his MU reputation alone, he has got to start performing for us.

Just as a matter of interest how many more 'mediocre' games do you think he should be given before he is left out? If he played poorly against both Chile and Holland should he be picked for the Germany game?

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Have you ever watched O'Shea play? The top of his game? What are you talking about? He'll be dropped next season. Tell me what he'd bring to an Ireland team playing in central midfield. I've explained his limitations as a footballer. Why not hold out some hope that some of our younger players will be better? Let's be honest they could hardly be any worse for Ireland.

O'Shea has had his chance for far too long at International football and proved he can't hack it. How long more do the Man U supporters want us to stick with him? How many more tournaments should we miss by playing this liability?

People seem to think because O'Shea is playing for United he should be automatically guaranteed a starting place in the Ireland team. I think that's bo**ox. Would we give Gary Neville or Darren Fletcher a game also if they were Irish? I hope not.

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i may be wrong but i get a strong whiff of an abu here. please dont bring your english football allegences / hatred to an Irish football discussion forum

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Originally Posted by youngirish

People seem to think because O'Shea is playing for United he should be automatically guaranteed a starting place in the Ireland team. I think that's bo**ox. Would we give Gary Neville or Darren Fletcher a game also if they were Irish? I hope not.

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you my friend, are a joke. neville is one of the best right backs in europe, and has proved it year after year.

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Originally Posted by livehead1

you my friend, are a joke. neville is one of the best right backs in europe, and has proved it year after year.

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Agree fully livehead. Gary Neville is an outstanding leader and it is quite evident that United's form has improved since his return to the team in recent months. As for Darren Fletcher, he could do a job for us in that troublesome position on the right side of midfield.

So it doesn't matter that O'Shea has gotten his game in a team that has won 9 games in a row?

Ok then.

And I'd be delighted to have either Neville in the Irish squad.

There must be a surplus of central midfield talent if we can afford to ignore players playing with top premiership teams & in MU's case a European force (OK maybe just). Other than Reid and O'Shea, I don't see too many contenders today.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i may be wrong but i get a strong whiff of an abu here. please dont bring your english football allegences / hatred to an Irish football discussion forum

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

So it doesn't matter that O'Shea has gotten his game in a team that has won 9 games in a row?....

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

There must be a surplus of central midfield talent if we can afford to ignore players playing with top premiership teams & in MU's case a European force (OK maybe just). Other than Reid and O'Shea, I don't see too many contenders today.

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This has nothing to do with JOS or anyone else playing for MU. It is about JOS playing for Ireland. He could be playing his club football with Barcelona, Real Madrid or Waterford and could be European or World Footballer of the Year with his club, but it is his form for Ireland that I and many others question. All I want to know is (a) if he is going to do it for Ireland and (b) if so, when. We can't afford to wait forever and his chances are running out.

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

There must be a surplus of central midfield talent if we can afford to ignore players playing with top premiership teams & in MU's case a European force (OK maybe just). Other than Reid and O'Shea, I don't see too many contenders today.

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In all fairness, nobody said ignore him. Playing for this Man Utd team doesn't make him an automatic first team player for Ireland. I'd feel a lot less nervous with a few other players in midfield than O'Shea against Germany. He still has a lot to prove.

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

There must be a surplus of central midfield talent if we can afford to ignore players playing with top premiership teams & in MU's case a European force (OK maybe just). Other than Reid and O'Shea, I don't see too many contenders today.

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That's be my view too.

Getting central midfield sorted is the biggest near term challenge facing Staunton I reckon. Let's face it, all our CM options are speculative. Reid looks the part but has barely played international football for ages, Kavanagh's yet to show he can cut it as an international, the likes of Miller & Douglas have yet to show they can cut it even at a decent club level. Ditto Alan Quinn. Andy Reid needs to recover from injury & establish himself at Spurs, Joey O'Brien doesn't play CM for Bolton, Glenn Whelan has talent but needs to step his game up a few notches, and so on.

I'd expect that Garvan and Ireland will be good enough in due course, but I reckon it'll be towards the end of Euro 2008 qualifying before they're likely to be considered first choice (maybe later in Garvan's case).

Hopefully the Chile & Holland games will clarify the picture one way or the other. On the basis of his club form I think O'Shea deserves to be tested but we don't have much time to get it right.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

In all fairness, nobody said ignore him. Playing for this Man Utd team doesn't make him an automatic first team player for Ireland. I'd feel a lot less nervous with a few other players in midfield than O'Shea against Germany. He still has a lot to prove.

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I'd feel nervous about any of the midfield contenders as I think they ALL have a lot to prove.

I think Steven Reid will be the key.

His atleticism will be required to cover up potential weaknesses in whoever partners him. If he does his job well it could just allow the more creative players to do something. Maybe one of the young bucks will step up and take to the task, but it's more of a hope than an expectation for me.

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Originally Posted by livehead1

you my friend, are a joke. neville is one of the best right backs in europe, and has proved it year after year.

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United supporter by any chance or do you just have no general clue about football? Gary Neville is nowhere near one of the best right backs in Europe.

The following are all better right backs:

Finnan
Thuram
Puyol
Cafu (if your talking about players playing in Europe)
Zanetti (see above)
Sagnol
Ferreira
Lauren
Gallas (when he plays there)

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure I could think of a few more. You my friend are a muppet. Stop believing what you read in the English tabloids and watch a few games. I'd imagine you'd play Neville instead of Finnan then? Thank f**k your not picking the Irish team.

youngirish - As PP says, attack the post, not the poster. If you posted that kind of post on other forums and you'd probably be getting a banning so consider yourself warned. There's no point in it.

Anyway, I too believe Gary Neville is an excellent right back.