Ireland v Hungary and Armenia - September 2025

I havent been through the thread so apologies for rehashing this if its already been discussed, but was anyone else frustrated at how one dimensional we were in that second half. It was just crosses after crosses and very little attempt to mix it up to create shots. I was losing my mind watching that 2nd half. We did get the goals in the end, but with the domination that we had, especially after the red card, we should have won the game.

The first half was so bad I was questioning why I even bother watching anymore tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MancIrishWolf

Feel the reason it didn’t work previously is that Kenny’s team invited pressure on themselves (possibly the manager’s nervousness transmitting through to the players), so it becomes a back five (the 30 yard strikes were amply a relying sitting too deep / defensive ineptitude from not closing down quick enough). If three at the back is played offensively / in a counter attacking manner like Palace, Wolves (of last season), Brentford & Forest have used it, it can be very effective. Especially, if under the tactical instruction for a Centre Half to step out to support the midfield against weaker teams, as Collins can do and has done for Brentford.

We have no natural flat four full backs in the squad, apart from a bunch of converted wingers like Manning & Ogbene, so should use them like Munoz, Ait-Nouri, Semedo & Aina have been used at their respective clubs. All for playing a back four, however our midfield are too weak - 3-5-2 gives us much more cover in the centre, both defensively & offensively, whilst using the flanks as outlets

This is where HH is over-complicating things, by sticking square pegs into round holes, when he should be using the materials at his disposal, rather than trying to turn us into an Irish version of Pulis’s functional Stoke team with regimented positioning, rather than high pressure counter attacking playing to our strengths.

---

I really think 3-5-2 (basically 5-3-2) requires so much work on the training ground and realistically, are there any really good sides in the world using it right now? We got torn apart by Greece. they just got 2v1s constantly out wide with the fullback overlapping and pushing high, to the extent that we ended up having to pull both centre midfielders and centre backs out there to try cover gaps. If teams exploit it well, I don't think defensively you end up with more players in central areas. And then once teams are in the lead, which they often are with us, they're so comfortable just dropping deep and leaving max 1 player high and you end up with 2 redundant centre backs and teams can toy with us and control the game and it's difficult for us to press effectively and really influence the game.

You saw on Saturday when the coaching staff were trying to convey to the players that they didn't need to keep funnelling back into a shell when we were chasing the game and had a man extra and we could press. That was fairly obvious and shouldn't have taken 10 minutes to get across - in an ideal world they should know, if they've lost a man and we're chasing the game, you press more aggressively but there's a lack of time on the training ground these days. Uefa have cut the time by several days where an international camp with end on either Sunday, Monday or Tuesday and previously it was almost always Wednesday. Add in a standard 2 day recovery time post match which is now normal and you end up with very little real work on the training ground. When we've played 5-3-2, it's always struck me how difficult the players find it to know when for example the wing back needs to take a winger or a full back, when a centre midfielder needs to cover out wide to take the fullback if the winger is deep, when the centre forward needs to drop in the midfield to cover the midfielder who has been pulled out, when the right sided fullback needs to come across. You end up probably needing 5 players all to make the right decisions and to communicate well to each other and more often than not, it's looked like a system which we don't fully understand, whether that's down to coaching, time or the players...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fixer82

Re the Cullen yellow I really think he was unlucky and that the ref thought he was Szmodicz.
Cullen did nothing wrong there whatsoever

---

I also think the only reason they got involved at all was worrying about VAR and the player getting in the referee's ear or the sense being created that it was an unjust decision. Cullen in fairness to him was involved in the situation that got the player riled up and then sent off.

Szmodicz out

Josh Honohan called up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ifk101

And just on the individuals, and as poor as Doherty was, Collins was worse. His first action in the game was to balloon a diagonal ball over the head of O’Brien – the tallest player on the pitch. His second action was to miss Doherty with a simple pass across the backline. The resultant throw-in started the sequence of play for the opening goal. Doherty was too slow coming out after clearing the ball, but where’s the communication and organisation from Collins? No heads up to O’Shea that the player he was tracking on the ball Doherty had cleared had drifted in behind him. The second goal is on Collins – that’s his area of the box and his man that scores unhindered. Hungary could have had a third goal in the first half – again loose marking on the part of Collins with their striker missing a free header on goal.

We have so many good options at CB …

---

This is all true. For the first goal, it starts with the Collins pass to Manning which loses possession then Doherty should probably get up quicker after the header but I don't understand why O'Shea and Collins rush out leaving Doc in behind. Schoolboy stuff about getting out together if Collins and O'Shea can't see Doherty then he's too deep behind them and they can't push up without playing the striker onside. Just watch Doherty in isolation. The header takes him back on the six yard line and he does get up 6 yards in the 1-2 seconds before the ball comes back in. He'd need to run to get back in line and then his whole momentum would be going away from the goal - whereas if O'Shea and Collins just hold for a second for Doc to recover, then O'Shea can just clear that ball.

For the second, Collins most at fault for both the corner giveaway and the man who wins the header. He also had a few attacking headers which he missed the target with. It's tough though, he's an excellent footballer and on his day, he's a top centre back. It'd take a brave man to drop him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

This is all true. For the first goal, it starts with the Collins pass to Manning which loses possession then Doherty should probably get up quicker after the header but I don't understand why O'Shea and Collins rush out leaving Doc in behind. Schoolboy stuff about getting out together if Collins and O'Shea can't see Doherty then he's too deep behind them and they can't push up without playing the striker onside. Just watch Doherty in isolation. The header takes him back on the six yard line and he does get up 6 yards in the 1-2 seconds, before the ball comes back in, he'd need to run to get back in line and then his whole momentum is going away from the goal - if O'Shea and Collins just hold for a second for Doc to recover, then O'Shea can just clear that ball.

Collins most at fault for both the corner giveaway and the man who wins the header. He also had a few attacking headers which he missed the target with. It's tough though, he's an excellent footballer and on his day, he's a top centre back. It'd take a brave man to drop him.

---

Maybe he the weight on the captaincy drags him down in a green shirt? Hes too inconsistent for us

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Doherty at LB is an absolute nonsense. He's a centre-half now. Have courage and play Manning there.

Cullen and Knight, whilst being our two best CMs on paper, aren't complementary for some reason. I'd bring Taylor in, probably for Knight.

Of course, Molumby should be an option.

Leaving Molumby, Ebosele and Coleman out was stupid.

Let's be honest, there is absolutely no way that Phillips (in St Mirren, playing for the equivalent of a L2 side) would hold down a regular place in a Championship promotion-chasing side like WBA.

I would probably bring Johnston in for Szmodics.

---

Personally think it was a mistake not to have Molumby, Ebosele, Coleman, McGrath, O'Dowda in the squad. In terms of midfielders, when we were chasing the game, I didn't want Phillips who looked poor on his debut coming in in that environment - and it would have been a lot to ask Lawal to make his debut chasing the game and expect him to add creatively. With both Molumby and McGrath, you basically know what they'll give you. Neither Azaz nor Cullen had a good game and Knight tired and you basically just had Taylor on the bench as a somewhat viable midfield option. We were able to bring on attacking players because the of the sending off (Idah and McAteer) but you that's not something you can plan for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fixer82

Szmodicz out

Josh Honohan called up

---

Presumably due to ease of access. You can't tell me that if Manning goes down injured, and we're not winning that we'd rather have Honahan coming on over say O'Dowda. And that's no slight on Honahan. It just struck me as, ah he's in Dublin, we can just get him on that same flight with everyone else. With O'Dowda, 'we'd need to arrange everything and he probably won't play anyway, just take Josh'.

But if you want a LB/LWB, you're taking O'Dowda and if you want a like for like replacement and add a winger to replace Szmodics then Ebosele is the option and if you want an out and out attacker, Cannon comes in and if you want someone who can play between the lines, it's McGrath. I just don't see a situation where Honahan is the first choice for this particular squad on sporting merit alone.

Ebosele’s omission was odd given how much impact he had at Wembley.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Personally think it was a mistake not to have Molumby, Ebosele, Coleman, McGrath, O'Dowda in the squad.

---

Which five do you leave out in that case? Kenny, Phillips,...?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

I havent been through the thread so apologies for rehashing this if its already been discussed, but was anyone else frustrated at how one dimensional we were in that second half. It was just crosses after crosses and very little attempt to mix it up to create shots. I was losing my mind watching that 2nd half. We did get the goals in the end, but with the domination that we had, especially after the red card, we should have won the game.

The first half was so bad I was questioning why I even bother watching anymore tbh

---

I think it worked though. I’m watching Scotland at the moment. All they’ve done so far is manufacture crossing positions and they’ve been easy to defend.

Gary Breen was saying on Indo Sport podcast that there are days as a CB you’re happy for crosses to keep coming in but Hungary’s defenders wouldn’t have felt that way on Saturday. There was real pressure and there were real chances, Collins’ probably the biggest. As said above, it really felt like mid-first half in Wembley 1991, a passage of play that’s now part of folklore.

I think Hungary would have been very happy for us to try to play differently.

Edit: Scotland have just broken down a stubborn low block….with a cross and two big lads combining!!

If it works, use it. When all else failed under Kenny and even Mick, Duffy often bailed us out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think it worked though. I’m watching Scotland at the moment. All they’ve done so far is manufacture crossing positions and they’ve been easy to defend.

Gary Breen was saying on Indo Sport podcast that there are days as a CB you’re happy for crosses to keep coming in but Hungary’s defenders wouldn’t have felt that way on Saturday. There was real pressure and there were real chances, Collins’ probably the biggest. As said above, it really felt like mid-first half in Wembley 1991, a passage of play that’s now part of folklore.

I think Hungary would have been very happy for us to try to play differently.

Scotland have just broken down a stubborn low block….with a cross and two big lads combining!!

If it works, use it. When all else failed under Kenny and even Mick, Duffy often bailed us out.

---

Theres no denying that it worked because we got 2 goals from it, but do you not think that if we varied it a bit more it might have worked out better? I was frustrated watching because I thought we made poor decisions at times when better passes were available.

for the last 35 mins, the game was played with 20 plyers in the Hungary half for most of it. Playing through the middle wasn't an option and the second goal came from a lovely bit of play to work the ball from right to left - nice passing, good movement. We moved the ball from back to front well a lot of the time - can only recall two times we lumped it - easy enough when the press was as non existent as it was. I had no problem at all with what we did. I'm not sure what the variety would have been to be honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Which five do you leave out in that case? Kenny, Phillips,...?

---

First the initial squad should be larger whether that's down to the FAI or Heimer. But Jimmy Dunne is a name that comes to mind straight away along with Phillips, Kenny and now Honahan. There's obviously fitness doubts over both Coleman and Ogbene but I'd want them all there contributing and fighting for places.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkStu

for the last 35 mins, the game was played with 20 plyers in the Hungary half for most of it. Playing through the middle wasn't an option and the second goal came from a lovely bit of play to work the ball from right to left - nice passing, good movement. We moved the ball from back to front well a lot of the time - can only recall two times we lumped it - easy enough when the press was as non existent as it was. I had no problem at all with what we did. I'm not sure what the variety would have been to be honest.

---

Some shots from edge of the box instead of pumping it in everytime? It just felt like we were just hoping something would land to our players rather than us picking out a player most of the time, youre right that the 2nd goal was nice play.

BTW I just had a look through the thread and see some criticism of Idah for celebrating instead of grabbing the ball. Im sorry but thats just madness, the whole place exploded

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

First the initial squad should be larger whether that's down to the FAI or Heimer.

---

Well, fair, yep - though you have to cut that back to 23 for matchday anyway.

Honohan yep - though from the original squad that's really Sammie. I wouldn't be too worried about McGrath - or even Coleman at this stage, sad to say.

It does seem an unbalanced squad though, with too much up front and nothing in midfield (so Molumby for Kenny seems almost obvious)

On the Collins captaincy, I would have Coleman around the squad even as the off-field captain. I think he brings a good energy to the group and I’d not have minded him on the right with O’Brien at CB and Doherty dropping out. (Or even Doherty and O’Brien swapping).

Collins had a shocking first half

Has any journalist ever asked him about the 23 man squad stuff? Would seem like an obvious question to ask. We should bomb text the off the ball lads on it