LOI in Europe 2023

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Originally Posted by patsdad

I know you’re only trolling but while we weren’t at our best it’s a stretch to say it’s embarrassing to lose 2-1 in the away leg against a club that’s recently made the group stages of the Europa League.

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The performance was embarrassing, Pat’s should have been dead and buried could easily habe been a heavy defeat.

Both results and performances so far would meet my threshold for embarrassing, as the Bridablik (apologies for spelling attempt there) manager said himself Rovers as a club are ahead of them in every possible way. They should have been winning that game.

Both them and Pat’s made a complete hash of it but have to take the positive that both are still in their respective ties.

The unfortunate thing is you couldn’t rule out another couple of embarrassments tonight and if were to materialise would be a proper reality check for some on the quality of the LOI.

I suppose to put things in perspective a bit, the LOI has beaten clubs from ‘higher ranked leagues’ many many times. It is only inevitable that this can happen to us too. Our clubs’ history is littered with examples of these surprising and embarrassing losses (2012 has been mentioned here at least twice).

The record in general against clubs from Iceland and Luxembourg is good but as there is not a lot between clubs at this level, results will generally be close and sometimes go in their favour. It has happened to us twice this year. We’ll see what the 2nd legs bring.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

The way they played the ball around on the night was in big part a reflection on how poor Rovers were that they let them at it. (And the second half improvement showed that I think)

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Not sure about that. Sure, if Rovers hasd been better they'd have had less of the ball, but in contrast to Rovers it was a different type of football. I think Rovers' football is "accomplished football by numbers". Yes, it's on the deck, it's a passing game etc. but it doesn't get between opposition lines very well whereas the Icelanders found space much more imaginatively and fluently. Rovers' style is a bit late Wenger-era Arsenal or even Spain, the repeated "horseshoe" shape around the box. It's technically accomplished but not dynamic or penetrative. Maybe it's different when Clarke & Farrugia are fit but even then the evidence suggests a flaw in Rovers' style and its ability to put lesser teams to bed. In my opinion...

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think Rovers' football is "accomplished football by numbers". Yes, it's on the deck, it's a passing game etc. but it doesn't get between opposition lines

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A huge problem across the league and while it's early for such talk yet it could be a major part of poor European results so far.

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Originally Posted by Buller

Some of the passes they were playing around, even their defenders, the strength and speed of their players, the comfort on the ball and passing it out, I thought was all a level above anything we've faced in LOI this year. Their number 8 and 13 were in particular v impressive on the night.

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I thought so too, bar Sligo as said above.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

the evidence suggests a flaw in Rovers' style and its ability to put lesser teams to bed. In my opinion...

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Well that's probably not too far from what I'm saying I think. Maybe there's a distinction to be made between the players being poor and the system being poor alright. But I think there was a bit too much of an attempt to build Breidablik up by saying they had fellas who played twice for Iceland back in the day. That's a bit defeatist imo.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think Rovers' football is "accomplished football by numbers". Yes, it's on the deck, it's a passing game etc. but it doesn't get between opposition lines very well whereas the Icelanders found space much more imaginatively and fluently. Rovers' style is a bit late Wenger-era Arsenal or even Spain, the repeated "horseshoe" shape around the box. It's technically accomplished but not dynamic or penetrative. Maybe it's different when Clarke & Farrugia are fit but even then the evidence suggests a flaw in Rovers' style and its ability to put lesser teams to bed. In my opinion...

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Excellent analysis.
I think Bradley should try to develop more of mixed style as a plan B. Not going totally direct but just mix it up, especially away from home in Europe. Jack Byrne put a great ball over the top on Tue from deep to create Rovers best counter of the game. They could utilise that weapon more.
I remember one of the opposition coaches last year in ECL saying something about it - how Rovers play the exact same away in Europe as they do at home. It clearly doesn’t work out very well away in Europe so imo they should address that.
I do think Bradley is still a very good coach tho. Some on here are a bit ott in their criticism. But to get the maximum out of the group I think they could be a tad more pragmatic away from home in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

Excellent analysis.
I think Bradley should try to develop more of mixed style as a plan B. Not going totally direct but just mix it up, especially away from home in Europe. Jack Byrne put a great ball over the top on Tue from deep to create Rovers best counter of the game. They could utilise that weapon more.
I remember one of the opposition coaches last year in ECL saying something about it - how Rovers play the exact same away in Europe as they do at home. It clearly doesn’t work out very well away in Europe so imo they should address that.
I do think Bradley is still a very good coach tho. Some on here are a bit ott in their criticism. But to get the maximum out of the group I think they could be a tad more pragmatic away from home in Europe.

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He’s a good coach but also a young coach. He still has a lot to learn but has many years left to evolve.

Your point about a plan b is a good one. If a team is successfully implementing a high press against you that stops you playing out from the back, then mix it up with a few balls over the top. Even if it doesn’t lead to chances all the time, it gives your opponent something to think about and maybe they have to adapt their approach or risk getting caught out by a pass that does leave space for an attacking player to exploit. Just seemed in that first half that Rovers kept using the same tactic and hoping it would work.

I see the KO for the Dundalk game is 6pm local time. It is suppose to be close to 30c at that time. Very clever from the Magpies who will be much more used to playing in those conditions.

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Originally Posted by ger121

I see the KO for the Dundalk game is 6pm local time. It is suppose to be close to 30c at that time. Very clever from the Magpies who will be much more used to playing in those conditions.

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Nobody can ever really "get used to" playing football in the heatwave currently roasting the Continent;

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/07...9210787935.jpg

Glens fans out in Malta are saying they've never experienced anything like it, with eg the temperature not falling below 30 Celsius even in the middle of the night, and much higher during the day. Humidity to match.

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

It’s been mentioned plenty of times beforehand, but it’s been very clearly shown this week that the quality of our prem division is a level below recent years, even though attendances are way up. Why is that?
I think it’s probably a combination of a few things:
1. The league is being drained of all young talent now every summer, and eventually that’s caught up. The best players always left of course, but the last few years it’s felt a lot more pronounced.
2. Rovers have been the standard bearers for a few years, but maybe Bradley’s methods have just become stale after being with the same group for so long.
3. Improved expectations. As we’ve seen countless times with national teams, we don’t do well as a nation when we have expectations to compete. We’re far happier as a plucky underdog. This is the 1st year I can ever remember all 4 of our teams as favourites to progress. In truth, that should have been a clarion cal that some sh!t performances were on the way.
Thoughts?

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That sums it up. You might also add that our league has at best remained stagnant with no help while other leagues and associations try to improve.

We've definitely gone stale and our recruitment wasn't good enough this season, Arguably even last. Over reliance on experience and too much loyalty to players on the way down or with injury issues etc.

But I'd also agree with Buller and the Pats fans. While the performances were bad, particularly ours in the first half, the results aren't that embarrassing. I was dreading our tie given our form this season and their recent European results.

We can beat them but we need to get the hunger and confidence back as it's not there. Pats can also get the job done but Forrester needs to step up.

I think it's worth noting that it's two bad results and in a way that's just swings and roundabouts after a couple of good years.

But Philosophizer's post is a good one I think. I wonder to what extent our coaching is up to scratch here? I know they all have Pro licences, but there seems to be a very limited amount of coaches because there's so few full-time opportunities really. Does that limit the number of people who come through? Or their experience - do we tend to see managers take one, maybe two jobs and then just quit? LoI managers tend to be very young I think - Long, Myler, Bradley, etc - and experienced managers (Buckley an obvious example) seem to be quite few.

There's been talk in recent years about there's as many full-time underage coaches at Luton Town as there is across the whole LoI, which is quite damning - but then our teams tend to do quite well in the UEFA Youth League so I'm not sure how much of an impact that is. I'm not sure how well resourced we are at senior level.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Dudelange are in pre-season and even 10-man UCD could beat them. Bohs beat them 4-0 last year. They lost their money man (to Swift Hesperange, the new champions) a couple of years ago so their group stage qualification isn't really relevant any more.

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So you’re saying the group stage qualification isn’t relevant any more but UCD beating them 8 years ago seemingly is? :)

Also it was 2 years ago that Bohs beat them. Last year they drew at home to both Malmo and a Lech Poznan side that reached the quarter final of the conference league. Granted they’ve lost some key players since last year but they still appear to be a very useful side and were better last night than any LOI side pats have faced this year or last, they also appear to be a better side than Mura

Is the Dundalk game meant to be on LOITV? I can't see it on there

It’s not on LOITV,they’re streaming it themselves I think,still a tenner,should be on Dundalks twitter page….

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Originally Posted by yurt

Is the Dundalk game meant to be on LOITV? I can't see it on there

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I don’t think it is. Some other site that hosts game.

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

So you’re saying the group stage qualification isn’t relevant any more but UCD beating them 8 years ago seemingly is? :)

Also it was 2 years ago that Bohs beat them. Last year they drew at home to both Malmo and a Lech Poznan side that reached the quarter final of the conference league. Granted they’ve lost some key players since last year but they still appear to be a very useful side and were better last night than any LOI side pats have faced this year or last, they also appear to be a better side than Mura

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UCD beating them with 10 men 8 years ago is just funny really :)

I'm not sure they've any players left from the groups and the money man has moved club too (a lot of players followed him to Swift), so they're not group stage material any more. That draw against Malmö - they were 5-0 down on aggregate before rescuing a 2-2 home draw (so 5-2 on aggregate then) for example; Malmö had presumably switched off. There's definitely corporate money in the Luxembourg league in the last few years - their budget was about €5m when we played them and I'd say that's a lot higher than Pat's at the moment - but it's not a great result. We've only lost once in I think eight ties to Luxembourg opposition in Europe for example.

The bigger issue I guess is that the LoI is making great strides the last couple of years crowds-wise, yet we've now seen two of our top sides lose to clubs from much smaller countries, which really we should be looking to be regularly (and in fairness we do beat regularly)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think it's worth noting that it's two bad results and in a way that's just swings and roundabouts after a couple of good years.

But Philosophizer's post is a good one I think. I wonder to what extent our coaching is up to scratch here? I know they all have Pro licences, but there seems to be a very limited amount of coaches because there's so few full-time opportunities really. Does that limit the number of people who come through? Or their experience - do we tend to see managers take one, maybe two jobs and then just quit? LoI managers tend to be very young I think - Long, Myler, Bradley, etc - and experienced managers (Buckley an obvious example) seem to be quite few.

There's been talk in recent years about there's as many full-time underage coaches at Luton Town as there is across the whole LoI, which is quite damning - but then our teams tend to do quite well in the UEFA Youth League so I'm not sure how much of an impact that is. I'm not sure how well resourced we are at senior level.

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We also have a small league with only a handful of managers. They play each other 4 times a year and don't really get tested by anything new until Europe rolls around. They can prepare all year for it and then maybe be undone by something they maybe haven't seen before.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

UCD beating them with 10 men 8 years ago is just funny really :)

I'm not sure they've any players left from the groups and the money man has moved club too (a lot of players followed him to Swift), so they're not group stage material any more. That draw against Malmö - they were 5-0 down on aggregate before rescuing a 2-2 home draw (so 5-2 on aggregate then) for example; Malmö had presumably switched off. There's definitely corporate money in the Luxembourg league in the last few years - their budget was about €5m when we played them and I'd say that's a lot higher than Pat's at the moment - but it's not a great result. We've only lost once in I think eight ties to Luxembourg opposition in Europe for example.

The bigger issue I guess is that the LoI is making great strides the last couple of years crowds-wise, yet we've now seen two of our top sides lose to clubs from much smaller countries, which really we should be looking to be regularly (and in fairness we do beat regularly)

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Agree with you that it’s not a great result on the face of things. Having said that, when reflecting on the match, the way it panned out it’s as good a result as pats could’ve hoped for when taking Dudelange's missed chances into account. To still be alive in the tie is great after the performance last night and there will be a much much improved performance needed to beat them by a goal or 2 next week

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Originally Posted by ger121

He’s a good coach but also a young coach. He still has a lot to learn but has many years left to evolve.

Your point about a plan b is a good one. If a team is successfully implementing a high press against you that stops you playing out from the back, then mix it up with a few balls over the top. Even if it doesn’t lead to chances all the time, it gives your opponent something to think about and maybe they have to adapt their approach or risk getting caught out by a pass that does leave space for an attacking player to exploit. Just seemed in that first half that Rovers kept using the same tactic and hoping it would work.

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A lot of us would agree there. For me, we are too slow to adapt sometimes. Case in point is the run yous went on against us. We finally decided you had figured out how to press us into mistakes and went direct over your heads down the channels. I'm hoping for a similar switch up in the away leg but it probably depends on whether Farrugia can play or not.