Luca Connell (D/M Barnsley b.2001)

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Originally Posted by third policeman

I'm not sure that Bolton's results in the games that Connell played in are hardly relevant, especially as one of your arguments thus far has been the club were in effective free fall when he got his opportunity. The fact that he impressed fans and others whilst his team were struggling is to his credit. He's also played well when picked for the Under 21's, and is seemingly impressing albeit at a very low level at Queens Park. The fact is we don't know how he would perform if given a first team opportunity, because he hasn't been given one, except in a pre-season game where again he seems to have impressed fans. It's perfectly possible that he's not as good as his early promise implied, but it's equally possible that his development has been stunted by the way he's been treated at Celtic. There are very few nailed-on prospects but it sounds a bit like revisionism to suggest that Connell's promise was all hype and wishful thinking.

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Well said. And it is really all i was saying originally.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

McCarthy wanted a look at him because he was playing, briefly, in the Championship. Irish fans and media are always ready to believe that any footballer with a whisper of potential and Irish eligibility is a hero ready to blossom. And whatever McCarthy, you and I and the boys on Bolton.web's forum thought at the time everything since then suggests maybe he wasn't terrific after all. As far as making excuses go it reads to me as you making excuses for the last three or so seasons of his club career on the grounds that he played for Bolton 10 times and got 1 point in the league when he was 17. You've plenty of questions here Stu. Any chance of a few answers?

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Sorry - i was out and about and wanted to try and reply to each question as best as i could so home now and ill give it a go! :) despite your assertion, I haven't actually asked many questions at all in any of my posts, one or two maybe, and deffo not as many as you have just asked me!! I mostly just offered an opinion that he was actually quite good for Bolton and the events and sentiments at the time back that up and shouldn't attempt to be invalidated which is what was going on a few days ago. Generally speaking you and some others are feeling that it is appropriate to dismiss the fact that this guy was (is?) high potential because he has failed to make the grade at Celtic. I think that is revisionist and it is too simplistic an approach to casually dismiss every indicator put forward to support the notion that he was a player who performed well in that period. I think it is fair to question Celtic's role (as well as Connell's) in his career trajectory and whether they have failed to capitalize on his high potential. At the time of his announcement, they themselves noted in their press release how highly rated a youngster he is and which merited them spending 350k on the 18 year old.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

1) Do you think it reflects even a little on Connell that his Championship stint went 0-1-9? Especially given how much better they performed without him in the team in the same time frame? Or do you have an excuse to put on the table for this one? The other players? The circus of a club? He was part of all that surely?

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It is a team game so of course it reflects on Connell. So do the very positive reviews of his performances in those games reflect on him. Bolton lost 21 games in that period since he made his debut. Wow - so much better :D They. of course, won an FA Cup game that he played in and he got an assist in the next round.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

2) If he was as nailed on a prospect as you seem to suggest why did he sign for Celtic? Rather than another Championship club? Or even a Premier League club? In your opinion, obviously we're all speculating here?

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He is a massive Celtic fan and possibly got bad advice from his agent. Wolves, Norwich, Spurs, Burnley and Sheffield United were all tracking his progress while Brighton and Southampton failed with bids to land him according to a quick google of the articles around that time. There is no such thing as a nailed on prospect. He was high potential, he was highly rated. Thats all i ever said. Read my posts.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

3) If he was thriving in the English Championship why couldn't he get anywhere near the Celtic squad for a competitive game of any description?

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He was sent into the first team squad immediately. He was on the bench a few times. It seemed to gradually go south. There are a number of forums and articles where Celtic fans were impressed with what they saw, are impressed with how dominant he has been for Queens Park and have called to see more of him.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

4) Why didn't McCarthy cap him? Again, in your opinion, my guess is that it's because he wasn't good enough. And, to be fair to him, why should he have been at that age and point in his career?

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Ummm because he was injured during the camp which i thought was fairly common knowledge. McCarthy had said that Connell would be keeping his place in the squad after impressing during the training camp (Mick had initially just called him up for that).

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

5) Why has no team in the Scottish second tier, let alone the SPL, touched him on loan? Ditto for the English 3rd of 4th tier.

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Thats as much to do with Celtic - and their relationship with Queens Park - and Luca himself as anything else. He has done really, really well for Queens Park and maybe they all are just happy enough with that as the best path for him. It's probably not simply because he's crap. Which seems to be the prevailing theme of your post.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

He played less games in the Championship than Shane O'Connor did with Ipswich. He's potentially as likely going to have a career of that standard as ever play in a league as competitive as the English second tier again. I hope I'm completely wrong but I don't think that my believing he's at an absolutely critical juncture in his career is an outrageous take.

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Of course he is at a critical juncture (or will be this summer). He is 20 and needs to push up a level or two to fulfil the potential that seemingly everyone but a few Irish fans seem to acknowledge. Who here said that this was an outrageous take?

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

2) If he was as nailed on a prospect as you seem to suggest why did he sign for Celtic? Rather than another Championship club? Or even a Premier League club? In your opinion, obviously we're all speculating here?

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Any club in England would have had to go to tribunal and pay an unspecified amount - and for a 17 year old who had played 10 championship games - that would almost certainly have been a seven figure sum. He may well have been an international footballer which would bump the price up further.

Celtic wouldn’t have to pay anything except a nominal training fee, so money they could save on the compensation they could put straight to his wages making their offer the much more attractive. Pretty sure there were about a dozen clubs who made contact including Spurs, Brighton and Burnley

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

. The Irish prospects to watch at Celtic are Bosun Lawal and Rocco Vata.

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Interesting that they gave Jonny Kenny a squad number and didn’t give Bosun one while both the same year (2003)

Thoughts on Frankie Deane, Ben Quinn? I think the 2004 kids in general are underrated because they were u16s when the pandemic started and u18s when it ended, the only age group to not have any competitive underage international football, so the players, except Ferguson are far less well known…

Quinn was certainly one of the most highly thought of from that age group when he left ireland. Deane’s Celtic manager has compared him to Pirlo and xavi. Both are certainly more than non-prospects

Personally I still rate Luca above all them

I think giving Kenny a squad number was just part of convincing him to sign for Celtic instead of Hibs - to make him feel like they see him as a genuine prospect and not just another cheap Celtic punt. Of course, once he has signed on the dotted line, he has been sent straight down to the Lowland League team just like all the others.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

I think giving Kenny a squad number was just part of convincing him to sign for Celtic instead of Hibs - to make him feel like they see him as a genuine prospect and not just another cheap Celtic punt. Of course, once he has signed on the dotted line, he has been sent straight down to the Lowland League team just like all the others.

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he had one full season of senior loi football at 18, is that enough to be a viable member of celtics first team? not a chance imo, better hes getting games. hopefully a loan move is sorted for next season to let him progress.

I would suggest it would have been better for him to move to a club where he would have had a realistic chance of playing in a stronger league than the one he was already in, rather than joining a team where his only hope of game time is in a division multiple levels below the League of Ireland premier where he was playing with Sligo last year.

Maybe he'll get out on loan next year, but best case scenario it will be to Ayr United or Dunfermline or somewhere. Not sure that's going to do any more for his career than it did for Jonathan Afolabi or Luca Connell.

Incidentally, when Kenny chose Celtic over Hibs, Hibs turned their attention to their second choice pick for the developing striker position they wanted to fill - a teenage Norwegian forward called Elias Melkerson - and ended up signing him instead. He scored twice yesterday in their Scottish Cup quarter final win over Motherwell. That could easily have been Kenny, playing and scoring at a decent level of football. This is where the issue is with Celtic and young Irish players, it's the experience that the likes of Kenny and Connell miss out on by going there that costs them in the end.

Ross Tierney apparently advised Kenny not to join Celtic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/gossip

And Connor Ronan tipped for a call up.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

I would suggest it would have been better for him to move to a club where he would have had a realistic chance of playing in a stronger league than the one he was already in, rather than joining a team where his only hope of game time is in a division multiple levels below the League of Ireland premier where he was playing with Sligo last year.

Maybe he'll get out on loan next year, but best case scenario it will be to Ayr United or Dunfermline or somewhere. Not sure that's going to do any more for his career than it did for Jonathan Afolabi or Luca Connell.

Incidentally, when Kenny chose Celtic over Hibs, Hibs turned their attention to their second choice pick for the developing striker position they wanted to fill - a teenage Norwegian forward called Elias Melkerson - and ended up signing him instead. He scored twice yesterday in their Scottish Cup quarter final win over Motherwell. That could easily have been Kenny, playing and scoring at a decent level of football. This is where the issue is with Celtic and young Irish players, it's the experience that the likes of Kenny and Connell miss out on by going there that costs them in the end.

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why are you comparing him to connel and afolabi? this idea that celtic dont give a toss about young irish lads is comical. theyve paid a pittance for them , its in their own interest to develop these players to play first team football so they dont have to blow big money on imports. if the kids are good enough their quality will shine though (in most cases) . thats not to say celtic dont make bad decisions with younger players development but at some point it must come down to the player. at present neither connell or afolabi have done anything on loan to merit being a celtic first team player.

Again, it's about getting these players football at a suitable level at a young age. Kenny isn't good enough for the Celtic first team, but coming off a full LoI season he's also wasting his time in the Lowland League - that division is fine for 15/16 year olds like Rocco Vata but after that it's a waste of time in terms of player development.

It's not about whether Celtic want to develop these players or not, I'm sure they do - it's that they're just perpetually unable to do it. Connell, Afolabi, Lawal, Kenny etc. Different player, same story unfortunately.

And just to reinforce the point about the kind of footballing development these lads are getting, take a look at the state of the pitch from the Queen's Park game against Partick Thistle at the weekend. It's more like a greyhound track. Luca Connell is the player in possession in the centre circle at the very start of this clip...

Tell me how is any player supposed to develop to their full potential in that environment?

One thing worth mentioning is, it’s not all Celtic’s fault or within their control. They’ve campaigned for a proper reserve league and they've campaigned to have their B team played higher up the ladder. They and rangers have both campaigned but haven’t been able to get that through. So structurally it’s a really difficult place for young players to develop, because they play almost no matches and the ones they play are of low quality and meaningless.

For most Scottish teams that antidote to this is bringing talented young players to the fore very early. Take for example, Hamilton playing James McCarthy and James McArthur from 16. Look at Ross Tierney going in and playing straight away.

The problem at Celtic is a) they always have a huge squad, so game time is far harder to come by and b) the standard that young player initially has to reach is well above what it would be at Motherwell or wherever c) the requirements to win every game often mean that trying with a promising young player and the mistakes they make is a risk not worth taking

If you look at Dembele and Okoflex - Celtic used the fact they didn’t need to pay compensation to entice both to move, increasing their pay and offering them a route quickly to first team football. Dembele was so highly rated at Chelsea - if you look at Hudson Odoi’s development - maybe that would be Dembele’s path now if he had stayed at Chelsea, where he was breaking into the first team side at 17. Meanwhile, Okoflex was rated higher than Saka at Arsenal when he left. They spent a lot of time playing in the same underage sides. Maybe Saka would always have been the much better player - but also if Okoflex had stayed, maybe those years of stagnation wouldn’t have happened.

Ronan Darcy looks good. Must be Irish

For sure, it's not like any Irishman ever emigrated to Scotland 😄

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Originally Posted by pateen

For sure, it's not like any Irishman ever emigrated to Scotland 😄

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Liverpool - darcy’s scouse

You’d imagine though with a first name like Ronan, he’s not 5th or 6th generation Irish

If you look at Dembele and Okoflex - Celtic used the fact they didn’t need to pay compensation to entice both to move, increasing their pay and offering them a route quickly to first team football. Dembele was so highly rated at Chelsea - if you look at Hudson Odoi’s development - maybe that would be Dembele’s path now if he had stayed at Chelsea, where he was breaking into the first team side at 17. Meanwhile, Okoflex was rated higher than Saka at Arsenal when he left. They spent a lot of time playing in the same underage sides. Maybe Saka would always have been the much better player - but also if Okoflex had stayed, maybe those years of stagnation wouldn’t have happened.

The Dembele at Celtic is Karomoko Dembele, he was never at Chelsea, as Okoflex, he was getting close to be around the first team but with the papers picking his comment to that 8 yr on instagram, that ended his chances of ever playing for Celtic again.

Started today in Queens Park 2-1 win getting them promoted to Scottish championship. 2nd successive season Luca has been involved in successful promotion albeit at a low level. Afolabi seemed to come into some form at end of season, scoring in the semi final, winning a Peno in first leg final, and finally starting today. Both players long shots to make it at Celtic at this stage….

Being a free agent should give him more leeway in finding the right club. Seems it was a three years contract with an option for a fourth year. Always thought he was signed up till next year.

What a waste of three years.