Montenegro V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 10th September 2008 - World Cup 2010 Q

Given 9 - Once again he was brilliant

Finnan - 8 Excellent never put a foot wrong
Dunne - 9 Solid as a rock
O’Shea - 9 Another excellent performance, thank heavens he has finally come of age
Kilbane - 6 Steady. Looked uneasy when the Montenegran sub started to run at him.

McGeady - 7 Thought he had a good game. Worked tirelessly.
Whelan - 8 Another excellent performance. Hope his stoke manager was watching.
Reid - 8 Excellent. However he did tire towards end of 2nd half
Hunt - 6 Worked tirelessly. However he gave the ball away a lot and his delivery from set pieces was woeful.

Keane - 7 Good game. Worked hard, and looked dangerous when he got the ball to feet.
Doyle - 8 Excellent. Kept showing and worked tirelessly.

Could have won it, should have had peno. Cyprus will not be easy next month.

listen lads its a long road, a group was never won after the first two games. im happy the way we controlled the game, looked solid. duff to come back in and we have 3 home games to come. next up 3 points against cyprus.

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Originally Posted by eekers

Ah, the waiting game sucks. Let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos!

The problem for me was the back 6 stayed back at all times except for set pieces. We had two wingers trying to cross the ball to the centre with no one arriving from midfield to get on the end of it. Hopefully this is just the 'away tactic'. Okay of course that means we're more solid defensively, but its just not how I like the game being player personally.

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Me too. We need to go for the jugular at home especially in our next two games. If thats the way he wants to play away well thats is perfect but i hope he doesnt play the "not to lose" mentality card at home or we could be in trouble.....with the exception of Italy maybe.

Positives

(1) Equalled what Bulgaria got there.
(2) Defence as solid as it was in Jack's days away from home. Can't find any fault with the back 4 except the 2 slips by Kilbane who otherwise had an excellent game
(3) O'Shea growing in to the role as an excellent centre-half. He should move out of Man U and play in that position regularly for some mid ranking Premiership team.
(4) McGeady had one of his better games.
(5) Midfield was solid if unspectacular.
(6) Unbeaten run continues.
(7) We didn't concede.
(8) Whole team worked hard and we played to a system.

Negatives

(1) For those who say we should have won, look at the stats. We had one strike on goal worth talking about and McGeady's miss. We created NEXT TO NOTHING for 90 minutes.
(2) A win would have put us 2 pts ahead of Bulgaria on a comparison table.
(3) We still can't win away from home.
(4) The strikers carved out next to nothing and there were no telling balls from midfield.
(5) Hunt's distribution is a disgrace.
(6) Gut feeling that we really needed those 3 points to qualify.

Overall, however, the positives outweigh the negatives but I worry about us having the ability to break teams down at home. That's why we do need someone with that extra creative touch like Andy Reid in midfield.
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Amused at the Eircom advert on RTE with Stephen Reid telling the child to feint one way and then go the other. He ended up on his backside twice to an opposition player doing that :D

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Amused at the Eircom advert on RTE with Stephen Reid telling the child to feint one way and then go the other. He ended up on his backside twice to an opposition player doing that :D

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Next time you see the advert, watch the team shot. Notice Shay Given, he forces a smile, then a fantastic grimace. Well worth seeing.

I thought given time to reflect and reanalyse the game given some comments here, but the same fact remains. Had we played georgia in georgia, I am sure we would have only come back with 2 points. People on here are getting carried away with the fact that we have not lose on 2 away outings in a row, something we hadn't done in a long time, and getting all excited like a fat kid at the site of chocolate cake. We did nothing in the forward 1/3 of the field, we were limited as well, very limited in fact that are only two chances were hit straight at the keeper or wide.

I watched the game in a pub last night with neutrals and a few irish who would watch the games but not be overly concerned. Two of them came out with this comment after half time "puke football". A little taken aback I said in fairness lads away from home they are holding onto the ball at least. Everyone just went ya the ball is going backwards or sideways but never forward, its as boring as you can get with no inventivenes/incisive passing. I had to agree as the game wore on, fair enough we were defensively solid but we never ever looked like winning this game. How many saves did their keeper have to make, and from how far out were we shooting as well? Going on finnans performance i can see why he was sold, he doesnt offer anything going forward anymore, there were 3 times in teh game when there was a huge space out right and we were like where is finnan the ball should be played out there to the space but instead it went across field. Controlling the game defensively doesn't mean we were class if its against mediocre oppossition. Remember lads they conceded 9 in 3 before this. We really need to sort out our attacking play.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I thought given time to reflect and reanalyse the game given some comments here, but the same fact remains. Had we played georgia in georgia, I am sure we would have only come back with 2 points. People on here are getting carried away with the fact that we have not lose on 2 away outings in a row, something we hadn't done in a long time, and getting all excited like a fat kid at the site of chocolate cake. We did nothing in the forward 1/3 of the field, we were limited as well, very limited in fact that are only two chances were hit straight at the keeper or wide.

I watched the game in a pub last night with neutrals and a few irish who would watch the games but not be overly concerned. Two of them came out with this comment after half time "puke football". A little taken aback I said in fairness lads away from home they are holding onto the ball at least. Everyone just went ya the ball is going backwards or sideways but never forward, its as boring as you can get with no inventivenes/incisive passing. I had to agree as the game wore on, fair enough we were defensively solid but we never ever looked like winning this game. How many saves did their keeper have to make, and from how far out were we shooting as well? Going on finnans performance i can see why he was sold, he doesnt offer anything going forward anymore, there were 3 times in teh game when there was a huge space out right and we were like where is finnan the ball should be played out there to the space but instead it went across field. Controlling the game defensively doesn't mean we were class if its against mediocre oppossition. Remember lads they conceded 9 in 3 before this. We really need to sort out our attacking play.

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dont really agree with any of this. i must have watched a different game.

Well I'm happy but a bit frustrated. I'm guessing there will be a lot of that under Trap. The Irish Times had an article this week saying he's only tinkered witht he team. But I thik it's been a huge change. The team is playing under a really clear system. Everyone knows their job. The back four defend as a unit and stay back. The 2 in midfield protect them, pick up the ball and move it on. Only the 2 wide men are givne licence to attack. Finally the strikers take turns coming back to link up. The reason everyone looks more competent is that they know what is epxected of them and this is a huge thing in international footbal.

The tactics should suit us as we are strong on wide midfield players. The problem last night was our best one is injured (as always), the next 2 played poorly (and it is a position where it either goes well or badly) and Trap doesnt seem to trust any of the others including A Reid.

I'm not sure it will change too much at home by the way. I'd say he will want his two in midfield to sit there and don't see A Reid replacing Whelan. By the way no need for Ireland to come back as he wont get a place in this team. Not because he is not good enough but because Trap will only pick him in CM and he is not combative enough.

Anyway good to feel there is a plan again. My hunch is we will do well (2nd or close 3rd) but not qualify. I still think it will be the next manager (Tardelli??) who will benefit from this stabilisation phase.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Going on finnans performance i can see why he was sold, he doesnt offer anything going forward anymore, there were 3 times in teh game when there was a huge space out right and we were like where is finnan the ball should be played out there to the space but instead it went across field. .

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Unfair I think - Id say he was probably told not to venture forward. You dont suddenly lose the ability to cross the ball like finnan.

ok duggie so break it down.
Did you think we created loads of chances?
Did you think Finnan got forward enough?
Did you think Hunt played well and crossed well and held the ball up well?
Did you think glenn whelan always picked out the forward pass rather than the easy back to defenders pass?
Did you think that robbie keane didnt have to drop to the halfway line to receive the ball?
Did you think that we played with urgency going forward and played good counter attacking football, or did we slow it down and wait for players to come forward(who must have been focused defensively rather than offensively if you agree with this answer)
Did you think we hoofed the ball forward a lot more than Saturday?

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Originally Posted by bholg

Unfair I think - Id say he was probably told not to venture forward. You dont suddenly lose the ability to cross the ball like finnan.

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Why not, because we were playing for a draw? Surely he wouldn't have been told this if we wanted 3 points like Trap said?

As a form of comparison, after the first two games in the last campaign (which were both away), we had no points, six conceded and two scored. This time around we have four points, conceded one and scored two.

This team isnt suddenly going to set the world alight, but it cannot be denied there are real signs of progress here, particularly in defense.

Key now is the home games against Cyprus and Georgia, we need to take six points from these. That will leave us with ten points heading into a home game against Bulgaria. Its a positive start and def something to build on.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Why not, because we were playing for a draw? Surely he wouldn't have been told this if we wanted 3 points like Trap said?

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we werent playing for the draw, finnan got forward well and his distribution was good. he had a good game. paul were u drunk while watching the game :rolleyes:

I thought we had a number of good goal chances - McGeady's in particular. We also should have been awarded a penalty.

I usually ignore what's said in a pub about football matches. Usually people look for consensus. So if one says "jaysus lads this is arse football", you'll get everyone around him nodding in agreement.

Lets be fair, on another day we would have got that peno, Keanes shot might have gone in, Doyle could have put his on target and McGeady may have finished.... on another day we could have won 2-0, I think last night was one of those games where you just dont get the rub of the green.

I really dont remember any decent chances for Montenegro (apart from the deflection) and if that happens at home you have to priase the away team.

I thought it was an astute performance against a tricky side, it's been years since i've said that about an Irish game.... let alone an away game.

I thought Doyle had an excellent game but I still think the partnership with Keane needs work, they both seem to run into the same positions and work back at the same time.

I think we missed someone from the midfield arriving late in the box last night, how many times did their defence fluff at a cross into the box but end up with enough time to recover.... if we had someone making the run and attacking the cross from outside the 18 yard box I think we could have nabbed a goal or 2.



I think John O'Shea has been possesed by the spirit of the undead Franco Baresi.

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Good Man Pike you a tactical genisus - for every educaed Irish football supporter out there -This thread is definition of Stupidity - can we give Pike an award for his lack of football knowledge - You are a typical highlights on the premiership on Saturday evening type of guy!

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For a guy with Reality Bites for a name, you don't seem to like the truth genius...

Look 4 points away from home , I am happy the Trap seems happy also what more do you want .
I think we can all see imporvement in this side from the back as it's been said we have two big games coming up at home , in the run of things draw away and win at home and we are top of the group and off to SA simple as that .
As for Trap when the FAI hired an Italian what did anyone think that they would get ? For me it's defence defence and defence that's what they do and that's what they have been good at for years . If you wanted free flowing football then we should have got some Dude from Brazil and we would have been looking at 1 point from our frist two games .......

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Very comfortable point.

Disappointed we didn't win - something was lacking upfront, not sure whether it was a bit more guile or just a bit of old fashioned physicality.

I thought almost everyone acquitted himself well but Hunt infuriated me. Worked hard and definitely contributed to the direction of the game but his set pieces ware simply atrocious and his general distribution poor.

Duff could have had a field day against this lot.

Who ever said we had problems in central midfield? :) Whelan and Reid were excellent and Whelan in particular is showing that international football still has room for an intelligent technical footballer even if the English league doesn't.

Defence was rock solid - take a bow the much criticised O'Shea & Kilbane.

The team is definitely taking shape. It looks cohesive and functional which is something we haven't been able to say for a while. That by itself compensates for not winning in my mind. My only reservation is that points won now can compensate for unexpected or undeserved points lost in future.

My wish list: Duff in for Hunt, McGeady to be more assertive and the front 2 to be more threatening.

Could Andy Reid have improved things? Maybe if we'd taken Hunt off, played slightly narrower and with McGeady playing a freer role behind Keane & Doyle. Did Montenegro have the width to exploit this shape? Not sure but I don't think so.

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Once again I agree totally with all of that Stutts. Delighted with O Shea from the 2 games and from Whelan. Two suprises for me. Doyle was top class again and his effort is unreal, He never wants to be beaten for the ball. Not sure if this comes across on TV or not.

This is a tough place to come and win and i think we have got a big advantage by winning against Georgia "away". Big game for us is the night that Bulgaria play Georgia away next month.

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Originally Posted by Claret Murph

Look 4 points away from home , I am happy the Trap seems happy also what more do you want .
I think we can all see imporvement in this side from the back as it's been said we have two big games coming up at home , in the run of things draw away and win at home and we are top of the group and off to SA simple as that .
As for Trap when the FAI hired an Italian what did anyone think that they would get ? For me it's defence defence and defence that's what they do and that's what they have been good at for years . If you wanted free flowing football then we should have got some Dude from Brazil and we would have been looking at 1 point from our frist two games .......

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You tell me honestly, hand on heart, you didn't once think last night watching the game, 'bring on Reid, this crowd are there for the taking'? I know I thought it.

Disappointed with some of the comments on here, thought we played well.
Some of the comments about Whelan in particular are way off the mark, he's not a creative player, so why expect him to create? Trapattoni definitely does not want him in the creative role, that's Steven Reid, with Whelan keeping possession, making tackles and breaking up attacks, think Steve McMahon at Liverpool, Neil Lennon at Leicester and Celtic, even Deschamps for France. None particularly creative, and all took their share of criticism, but when they were missing for their teams, either through injury or suspension, they were badly missed.
The defence is looking solid, O'Shea has benfitted more than any other player under Trap. He's throwing himself into tackles, marking well, and has become another target man from corners. Finnan never looked under pressure, linked well with McGeady, and I can't remember a cross coming in from that side for the whole game.
McGeady's performance will be tainted by that miss, even if he had shot across the keeper, and aimed for the far post, it could have rebounded to Keane, Doyle, or Hunt who was running in. I thought he had a good game, some good deep crosses from corners, and one cross from the byline that nearly resulted in the game goal as against Georgia. Compared to Hunt's game, with missed free kicks, far more possession lost, and seemingly never able to beat his man, he played a far better winger's game.
Hunt was definitely the weakest link, and a better team than Montenegro would have exploited this. Ironic that Kilbane covered for him at left full, having had to cover for Harte at left full in a previous incarnation.
Up front, Doyle never stopped running, despite playing a little deeper than at the weekend, and frequently worked hard to retrieve loose balls. A good defence starts up front, and both Keane and Doyle never gave their defence time on the ball, forcing them into quick, stray passes.
The home game against Cyprus will doubtless have the old "revenge/we owe them one" cliches (which I personally can't stand, qualification is the motivation, not some misguided attemt to wipe clean a previous result) and on the showing of these 2 games, we will be well prepared, creative, patient, and should beat them comfortably.