Eligibility Rules, Okay

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23/05/2012, 9:25 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

I don't want to get dragged into an argument with you, but the extremity of comment on OWC is an example of what alienates many Nationalists. On the political aspect of the IFA, I think this has been commented on many times on this thread.

Well, of you don't wish to engage in discussion, or cannot articulate your assertions, it might be best to say nothing.

I'm sure the OWC moderating team would be quite flattered to learn than their website is fundamental in forming Nationalist opinion.
23/05/2012, 9:25 AM
DannyInvincible

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

I don't want to get dragged into an argument with you, but the extremity of comment on OWC is an example of what alienates many Nationalists. On the political aspect of the IFA, I think this has been commented on many times on this thread.

I'm not convinced. Whether OWCers are extreme or not wouldn't have any bearing on the general cultural relevance of the NI team to the nationalist community. If anything, surely it is the intrinsic British/unionist nature of the NI team that confirms to nationalists that NI is not for them.
23/05/2012, 9:25 AM
rellik

Again. You are wrong. You need to educate yourself about the nationalist communities attitude to northern ireland, and how its status reflects upon their own identity (hint - it doesn't).
23/05/2012, 9:25 AM
ArdeeBhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

What exactly do you mean by 'the political aspect of the IFA'?

What exactly do you mean by 'the extreme nature of many of it's fans?

I don't think that Northern Ireland fans are any more 'extreme' than anybody else's fans - whatever extreme means.

I'll let others comment on whether the IFA are political;they strike as more incompetent than anything else. Though as we all know that's hardly a unique attribute for a national FA...

As for their fans, as alluded to above, most I've encountered have been far more militant on this 'player issue' and to that extent NB is a bit of a 'voice in the wilderness...'.
It doesn't make them 'extreme' by the standards of the North though, far from it...
23/05/2012, 9:29 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by rellik

Again. You are wrong. You need to educate yourself about the nationalist communities attitude to northern ireland, and how its status reflects upon their own identity (hint - it doesn't).

What are the main political aspirations of a 'nationalist'?
23/05/2012, 9:30 AM
ArdeeBhoy

The opposite to those of a 'unionist'.
;)
23/05/2012, 9:47 AM
gastric

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I'm not convinced. Whether OWCers are extreme or not wouldn't have any bearing on the general cultural relevance of the NI team to the nationalist community. If anything, surely it is the intrinsic British/unionist nature of the NI team that confirms to nationalists that NI is not for them.

Granted. But it can certainly galvanise their opinion and does not in any way ingratiate the NI team to Nationalists and that is the point I am making.
23/05/2012, 9:51 AM
rellik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

What are the main political aspirations of a 'nationalist'?

In reality high employment, a successful economy and first class health care/education. At an abstract level probably equality and self-determination through purely democratic means. By that definition therefore nationalists do not want to see the end to the northern ireland state, unless there comes a time whereby the state, by its own accord, ceases to exist.
23/05/2012, 9:57 AM
gastric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Well, of you don't wish to engage in discussion, or cannot articulate your assertions, it might be best to say nothing.

I'm sure the OWC moderating team would be quite flattered to learn than their website is fundamental in forming Nationalist opinion.

And if you want to revert to insults, I know what I will be doing next month, watching my team in a major competition. Maybe you should use your energies to help the IFA find some relevancy as the future looks particularly ordinary.
23/05/2012, 9:59 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

Granted. But it can certainly galvanise their opinion and does not in any way ingratiate the NI team to Nationalists and that is the point I am making.

Do you have any suggestions as to what the IFA should do to 'ingratiate' the Northern Ireland team to Nationalists?

Do you believe there are many Nationalists bursting at the seams to support Northern Ireland, if only the IFA ingratiated them?

Whatever changes were made, do you think many Nationalists/Republicans would have more of an affinity to the Northern Ireland team than to the Republic Of Ireland team?

I'm with DI on this - I genuinely believe that even if the Anthem and Flag were changed (something I would support!) for Northern Ireland games, that it would make little or no difference to the numbers of Nationalists/Republicans supporting Northern Ireland.

Why? - because they are Nationalists/Republicans.
23/05/2012, 10:04 AM
gastric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Do you have any suggestions as to what the IFA should do to 'ingratiate' the Northern Ireland team to Nationalists?

Do you believe there are many Nationalists bursting at the seams to support Northern Ireland, if only the IFA ingratiated them?

Whatever changes were made, do you think many Nationalists/Republicans would have more of an affinity to the Northern Ireland team than to the Republic Of Ireland team?

I'm with DI on this - I genuinely believe that even if the Anthem and Flag were changed (something I would support!) for Northern Ireland games, that it would make little or no difference to the numbers of Nationalists/Republicans supporting Northern Ireland.

Why? - because they are Nationalists/Republicans.

I was actully responding to your comments about the OWC. It seems we are back to moving goalposts which is why it is often hard to engage in meaningful debate with you.
23/05/2012, 10:06 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by rellik

In reality high employment, a successful economy and first class health care/education. At an abstract level probably equality and self-determination through purely democratic means. By that definition therefore nationalists do not want to see the end to the northern ireland state, unless there comes a time whereby the state, by its own accord, ceases to exist.

You should set up a new Nationalist political party.

I had a quick glance at the website of the main Nationalist political party - the SDLP.

Under it's 'ideas', number 1 is a United Ireland. No problems with that at all, but don't insult our intelligence by saying that Nationalists, by definition, don't seek a United Ireland.

We all want high employment, quality healthcare etc - when it comes to supporting a national football team, I would respectfully suggest that cultural identity comes to the fore.
23/05/2012, 10:09 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

I was actully responding to your comments about the OWC. It seems we are back to moving goalposts which is why it is often hard to engage in meaningful debate with you.

My questions to you still stand.

You are quick to identify the problems, but what are your solutions for the IFA to ingratiate the Nationalist community in their support of the Northern Ireland team?
23/05/2012, 10:10 AM
gastric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

You should set up a new Nationalist political party.

I had a quick glance at the website of the main Nationalist political party - the SDLP.

Under it's 'ideas', number 1 is a United Ireland. No problems with that at all, but don't insult our intelligence by saying that Nationalists, by definition, don't seek a United Ireland.

We all want high employment, quality healthcare etc - when it comes to supporting a national football team, I would respectfully suggest that cultural identity comes to the fore.

Idealism and realism are two different things. And in the real world give a guess which one wins. Maybe this is different in Unionist circles.
23/05/2012, 10:12 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Not sure about this, but isn't eligibility at schoolboy level dictated by where a player goes to school rather than his nationality?

Perhaps, like Giggs did with England.

But my point is more around the checking of said nationality, all these players can have whatever nationality, identity they want. I wouldn't believe they actually do check up until a certain level, not senior. Predators point proves this also.
23/05/2012, 10:19 AM
gastric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

My questions to you still stand.

You are quick to identify the problems, but what are your solutions for the IFA to ingratiate the Nationalist community in their support of the Northern Ireland team?

And that is really the issue. Decades of close affiliation with Unionist politics has not helped the IFA. In terms of solution I have been criticised on here for my views which would involve a seismic change involving leadership, transparency, responsibility and God help, us a plan for the future which presently does not seem to exist.
23/05/2012, 10:24 AM
rellik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

You should set up a new Nationalist political party.

I had a quick glance at the website of the main Nationalist political party - the SDLP.

Under it's 'ideas', number 1 is a United Ireland. No problems with that at all, but don't insult our intelligence by saying that Nationalists, by definition, don't seek a United Ireland.

We all want high employment, quality healthcare etc - when it comes to supporting a national football team, I would respectfully suggest that cultural identity comes to the fore.

Actually the SDLP manifesto proposes a referendum on unity, with the northern Ireland assembly and executive continuing as a regional parliament, much as it operates today. As such if the state, by it's own accord, leaves the union, it's political system will largely remain intact.
23/05/2012, 10:40 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

I know what I will be doing next month, watching my team in a major competition. Maybe you should use your energies to help the IFA find some relevancy as the future looks particularly ordinary.

Ouch.:D

Funnily enough, I'll be in the Ukraine on the last weekend of June - watching a Northern Ireland International team competing against the cream of Europe.

The Head of the IFA's Community Relations Department, a good friend of mine, will be there too - in fact, he's playing.:D

I'm sure we'll chew the fat over a few refreshments about our ordinary future, and what can be done to make it brighter.

Any suggestions?

PS. I hope your favourites do well next month - I have a small financial interest in them doing well.
23/05/2012, 10:42 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Do you have any suggestions as to what the IFA should do to 'ingratiate' the Northern Ireland team to Nationalists?

Do you believe there are many Nationalists bursting at the seams to support Northern Ireland, if only the IFA ingratiated them?

Whatever changes were made, do you think many Nationalists/Republicans would have more of an affinity to the Northern Ireland team than to the Republic Of Ireland team?

I'm with DI on this - I genuinely believe that even if the Anthem and Flag were changed (something I would support!) for Northern Ireland games, that it would make little or no difference to the numbers of Nationalists/Republicans supporting Northern Ireland.

Why? - because they are Nationalists/Republicans.

Fine, support perhaps not, but it would at least make those republicans and nationalists playing for NI a lot more comfortable.
23/05/2012, 10:50 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

Idealism and realism are two different things. And in the real world give a guess which one wins. Maybe this is different in Unionist circles.

Not at all - day to day issues are more concerning to me that the Constitutional status of Northern Ireland on a day to day basis.

It was you that said you don't have much in common with me - I have more in common with Nationalists/Republicans than what divides us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

And that is really the issue. Decades of close affiliation with Unionist politics has not helped the IFA. In terms of solution I have been criticised on here for my views which would involve a seismic change involving leadership, transparency, responsibility and God help, us a plan for the future which presently does not seem to exist.

What is this close affiliation with Unionist politics you speak of?

Have you any specifics about what you propose to enact the seismic changes you speak of?

As a Republic Of Ireland fan, why does this exercise you so much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rellik

Actually the SDLP manifesto proposes a referendum on unity, with the northern Ireland assembly and executive continuing as a regional parliament, much as it operates today. As such if the state, by it's own accord, leaves the union, it's political system will largely remain intact.

So, in short, the SDLP would rather there was a United 32 County Irish State, and actively try to convince voters of the merits of that. Unionist friendly Unity is the expression a friend, Secretary of the local SDLP Branch, uses.

PS. Adam will be happy.

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