Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread

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Originally Posted by Dodge

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogether

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Have to agree Dodge, that's how it looks and feels to me too. Hopefully, our overarching cynicism will be proven incorrect.

KOH

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Originally Posted by Dodge

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

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Was thinking along the same lines. Kinda depends on the conditions for the 1st Division Licence really. I suspect the 1st Division Licence is conditional on them clearing their debts to players and other clubs.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Was thinking along the same lines. Kinda depends on the conditions for the 1st Division Licence really. I suspect the 1st Division Licence is conditional on them clearing their debts to players and other clubs.

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I'm very interested to hear what these conditions are. [Conspiracy theory alert] It could be that one of the conditions (unwritten of course) was that they would be given the 1st division licence on condition they pay the wages and DO NOT appeal the premier division license being revoked. Similar to the bull**** deal where Rovers didn't appeal the 8 points deduction knowing they were getting off lightly (and no revisionism by Rovers fans will make me think otherwise). Ironically enough Ollie knew it was a BS deal and threatened to bring it court, looking for more punishment for Rovers.

Still think the first theory is more realistic...

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Originally Posted by Galway Harps

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However, I do think the right decision was made in not kicking them out completely.

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i feel for limerick in the way their matter was handeld, it all seems like shels got off scot free. one rule for dublin another for the rest of the country.

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Originally Posted by The Man Himself

i feel for limerick in the way their matter was handeld, it all seems like shels got off scot free. one rule for dublin another for the rest of the country.

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Thats total ******** and you know it. Even Limerick fans wanted to get rid of the guy at the helm there. Totally different scenarios

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Similar to the bull**** deal where Rovers didn't appeal the 8 points deduction knowing they were getting off lightly (and no revisionism by Rovers fans will make me think otherwise).

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Without getting into so-called revisionism - I'll leave that to the undisputed kings in Dalymount - the reason we didn't appeal was also to do with the fact that the FAI hadn't the foggiest notion as to what they were doing. Hence an appeal could have been very messy for everyone involved - Rovers and the FAI. The FAI don't like uncharted waters and that's exactly where they were.

KOH

My take on any appeal/conspiracy-

Is it only possible for Shels to appeal the decision of 19/02/07 based on facts presented at or before 19/02/07? They did have a number of days to submit further information as required to this date. Any subsequent changes of circumstances in the week after 19/02 are irrelevant to the date of the decision made by the FAI (an extreme example: Ollie Byrne could win Euro Millions, therefore Shels would be financially prudent). Therefore, Shels can only appeal the decision made based on facts presented at the time of the appeal or due to an misapplication of rules by the first instance committee.

Can any body clarify?

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Originally Posted by Soper

This was brought up before, the rules state that Sligo Rovers should get the Setanta place.

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I guess there's no-one around to set the league(s) straight on their own rules anymore....

Its a correct decision to relegate shels, no question about it. But I wouldn`t be too cocky if i was a waterford fan, like us they have assembled a team to win the first div and also like us they would (will) struggle in the premier with their current side. At the play off game, I was shocked at the poor fitness of waterford, actually i was shocked at their standard. They are in a for one hell of a tough season ahead.

All in all its been a very good day for us, one of our closest challengers removed and a team with nothing to offer replacing them.

dcfc steve, dont forget who was also in the first div with you in 85/86, the bold shels !

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Originally Posted by ilovejam

So now we see the rule being bent back because a high profile team like Pats

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:p High Profile? Good One :p

Sorry for asking what may have been asked before in the 630 post thread (is that a record?)

Where are Shels going to get players from, will they be holding trials. Can I play?

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Originally Posted by Shelsman

High Profile? Good One

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Maybe he should have said "High Division":confused:

Nice to see Shels fans are concentrating on the important things, it's not as if you've anything else to worry about...:D

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Originally Posted by kdjaC

Pats went from 25-1 to 14-1 to 10 - 1 to 6- 1 this week :confused:

I have them at all of the above :D


kdjac

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Biggest waste of money ever so!

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Originally Posted by Dodge

So the FAI knew they were millions in debt and had a massive operating loss for last year? And still gave them a licence?

Judging by Rovers points deduction Shels will be docked every point they earned alst year...

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They already have -they've been deducted all the points they will win in the 2007 season i.e. they've been instantly relegated.

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Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint

Nice to see Shels fans are concentrating on the important things, it's not as if you've anything else to worry about...:D

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With the Glasshouse already broken we can throw stones all we want! :D

Feels good!

:cool:

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Originally Posted by Shelsman

With the Glasshouse already broken we can throw stones all we want! :D

Feels good!

:cool:

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Try not to use your entire morphine supply up at once, its going to be a long season.

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Originally Posted by oriel

Its a correct decision to relegate shels, no question about it. But I wouldn`t be too cocky if i was a waterford fan, like us they have assembled a team to win the first div and also like us they would (will) struggle in the premier with their current side. At the play off game, I was shocked at the poor fitness of waterford, actually i was shocked at their standard. They are in a for one hell of a tough season ahead.

All in all its been a very good day for us, one of our closest challengers removed and a team with nothing to offer replacing them.

dcfc steve, dont forget who was also in the first div with you in 85/86, the bold shels !

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that was a different waterford team you played in the play offs,
garth cronan is after signing 15 new players so far this year which brings the current squad up to 24 players,

different waterford team different season.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogether

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.....and on the fifth day they rose again?

Originally Posted by kdjaC
Pats went from 25-1 to 14-1 to 10 - 1 to 6- 1 this week

I have them at all of the above


A real waste of money since they are still 11/1 on pp!!!

If the FAI allow Shels in the Premier it is an admission that the Shels accounts were correct & that licencing was an abismal failure.

I know we fell licencing has been implemented in hopeless manner but such a decision would be official acknowledgement of this.

:confused:

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

As a side-point, this season and next may turn-out to be a bit of a golden era for the First Division.

They had bigger than usual crowds throughout the division in 2006 with Rovers down there, and now with Shels in the First they're probably likely to attract bigger than usual crowds again across 2007. Add in the fact that Sligo generated good crowds towards the end of the 2005 season, and the high level of competition for Promotion we've had over the last few years, and this will probably be the best supported era for the First since City were there in 1985-87.

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This has to be the FAI's thinkin for puttin us there then! ;) :(

Fcukin gutted... hope somethin swings back in favour in next few days/wks.

Shels Forever... :mad:

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Originally Posted by Brigader

Shels Forever...

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Originally Posted by Bob

Once upon a time you dressed so fine
You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didnt you?
Peopled call, say, beware doll, youre bound to fall
You thought they were all kiddin you
You used to laugh about
Everybody that was hangin out
Now you dont talk so loud
Now you dont seem so proud
About having to be scrounging for your next meal.

How does it feel
How does it feel
To be without a home
Like a complete unknown
Like a rolling stone?

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Bob, a true prophet! :D

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Originally Posted by superblues

Originally Posted by kdjaC
Pats went from 25-1 to 14-1 to 10 - 1 to 6- 1 this week

I have them at all of the above


A real waste of money since they are still 11/1 on pp!!!

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Still 6-1 :confused:

But we signed Arkins last night maybe its cos of him :D


kdjac

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Originally Posted by Brigader

This has to be the FAI's thinkin for puttin us there then! ;) :(

Fcukin gutted... hope somethin swings back in favour in next few days/wks.

Shels Forever... :mad:

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Better to have a First Division team to support; than your club to go bust !!!!

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Originally Posted by kdjaC

Still 6-1 :confused:

But we signed Arkins last night maybe its cos of him :D


kdjac

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If ya log into paddy powers now ur guaranteed 11/1. been that all night!! Unless my computer knows something yours doesnt:D :

One thing bothering me about this whole Shels situation:

If everythings as bad as it seems what in the name of God is entitling them to a first division licence :confused:

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Originally Posted by Dodge

OK, here's my (conspiracy) theory

FAI tell Shels they're going to revoke the license at First Instance Committee, therefore appearing to be stamping down on this sort of thing. But inform Shels they can appeal. Effectively giving Shels another week to pay the wages. In the meantime Ollie signs deal with Kilkenny et al, clears the offending players wages debt and obtains premier license.

FAI are seen to be "serious about licensing" but still giving Shels every change to sort themselves out. I expect that next Monday Shels will be confirmed for premier division with Waterford in the first.

The European license is another story altogether

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You're wrong with your theory.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

One thing bothering me about this whole Shels situation:

If everythings as bad as it seems what in the name of God is entitling them to a first division licence :confused:

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'With Conditions'

Go work it out...

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Originally Posted by higgins

You're wrong with your theory.

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**** off Scully! Your logic ain't wanted here...

One of the licencsing committee has resigned as he was unhappy at Shels been awarded a first division license. It was on Galway Bay FM this morning (Can't remember his name, but he is from Tuam in Co Galway)

Did he think there should have been no licence at all? Or did he think they should get a premier one?

No licence at all is the impression I got

Yes he felt they shouldnt have received a licence and from the papers this morning they mighnt be able to meet the conditions attached to their 1St Division Licence the main one being a Tax Clearence Certificate.

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Originally Posted by gufct

Yes he felt they shouldnt have received a licence and from the papers this morning they mighnt be able to meet the conditions attached to their 1St Division Licence the main one being a Tax Clearence Certificate.

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Like a man with diahorrea - this could run and run...

Indeed. The thick plottens once more.

Shels are gone. They still ahve no manager, no players and no money. Tax clearance and 6M euro in debt aside they cannot play in the 1st division this season.

The Chairman of the Licensing committee resigned after they were awarded a 1st div license as they fail on everything on the criteria.

I assume that St Pats get the UEFA spot that Derry had?

Why did he resign if we're gone anyway ?

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Originally Posted by higgins

Why did he resign if we're gone anyway ?

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Because he felt giving you a license in that case was wrong. Makes sense to me.

If you heard Gary Brown last night on Des Cahill, they have more or less put us out of business with these conditions anyway, so he got his wish!

I don't think the fact it didn't happen the day he wanted is much to complain about.

Thought he could take some delight in us dying a slow painful death over the coming weeks!

Do others agree Shels should be put out of the league ?
The reason for no players by the way is that it's not going to happen until we are told we are ok. We could have players and a manager coming in now if the FAI would allow things but to employ people on the basis of these conditions is not very smart.

We seemed to have lied about our debts to get a premier license. We have a deal in place to pay off the critical debts and run a team for the 2007 EL season while we build some structures.

Do you not think it's unfair we're being put out of business ?

We're not asking anyone to pay our debts for us, we will work them off and complete the sale of our ground to pay the rest.

Shelbourne has been f**ked over by you know who for the past few years but at a time when we want to run things properly it seems we are not allowed to ?

I understand everyone elses hatred of Shels. Our success coupled with our owner was never a great combination but to put a club out of business who is intent on getting in line and has been around for 112 years is shocking.

Ollie is out of the picture now so I really can't see us carrying on as before.

Why not give us a set of conditions for next season and allow the people there this season to go about meeting those?

The punishment to me does not fit the crime.

If they go down this road then anytime a club with history fecks up they will be out the door. Going from Champions to the first and seeing your club in massive debts with no real home doesn't seem to be enough. Take the last title off us if they have to. Take them all off us if they want! but wanting Shelbourne out of business is very unfair...

It does and it doesn't. Are they deliberately putting Shelbourne out of business or are they just adhering to their own rules, for the first time where Shelbourne are concerned? I agree it would be preferable if a club with so much history did not go out of business but does the fault lie at the door of the licencing committee or with Shelbourne FC?

(By the way thats a rhetorical question)