connolly wouldve made a difference. coleman one of our best players.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
cant understand the whinging.... much better than i expected and we created 3 or 4 excellent chances. better team lost
connolly wouldve made a difference. coleman one of our best players.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
cant understand the whinging.... much better than i expected and we created 3 or 4 excellent chances. better team lost
Enough with the negativity. We had a tough away fixture, had more possession, more chances and played some nice football.
At least saved a humiliation against the North.
Not a hope Kenny will be given that long, not by our media or our association.
He was decent enough in closing down in the first half. Yeah, Browne offered more going forward, but the Slovakians had more chances after McCarthy went off.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
I'd like to see us play three central midfielders
You have to take that performance in the context of how bad Slovakia were with all the players missing though. They made us look good even though we were ponderous in possession most of the evening.
One of their missing players was their keeper. Well, it turns out their backup keeper is decent. Credit to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Positive style but unless they find a goalscorer there are going to be more night like this
Any good play from Ireland is rather undermined by our total inability to score a single goal in over 210 minutes of football, most of them against a mediocre team.
I think you have presented plenty objective facts in this post. I just can't help but feel you are being harsh in your interpretation of these facts and how you are imposing them on this performance. We were good. We should have scored. Kenny didn't manage the team throughout this campaign. It wasn't a particularly old team. We were missing a couple of strong younger players. I don't feel it is fair to say these players can't adapt to Kenny's style- they did to an extent tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I feel we did well tonight. We could have won and maybe should have. There will be changes for the next campaign but it seemed to me that a lot of the players that featured tonight would be capable of staying with the group for that campaign.
Kenny on Sky talking about Connolly and Idah ~ ~ ~ Something about 1.9 Metres and 1.7 Metres ~ ~ What the fook ? ? ?
That was a greatly weakened Covid-hit Slovakia in an empty stadium with their 'home' advantage effectively nullified and removed from them.
Let's be clear: this was a deeply disappointing non-performance from Ireland. We've proved to be the worst team on the isle, and on these islands as a whole, and there are serious questions to be answered. And, no, Kenny isn't wholly to blame for this latest foundering.
That was dreadful. And it's been dreadful since Kenny took over.
He's had 3 winnable games, and taken a single draw. We knock the ball about a bit, but we haven't scored from open play.
I can tolerate this (for a while) if he's bringng the kids through or something, but there isn't even any direction there. It's more or less the same squad as Mick would have picked, with more Molumby but less Obafemi.
It's like an England fan forum on here.
I wouldn't hang Kenny out to dry. He has only had 3 games and the Slovakian game, whilst disappointing and nowhere near the great performance some of these guys are claiming it to be, was markedly better than our last 2 games under him. Give him a campaign to bring the younger lads through and let's get rid of the deadweight. Then we can judge him.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
I actually think he is somewhat lucky with how it is landing for him. He won't be blamed for not qualifying here and he has another 4 nations league games before the wc qualifiers.
Hard to see us coming second in a group with the likes of Switzerland or Serbia and then winning a playoff with similar quality teams or even better than them.
Get Obafemi, Parrott, Molumby, Connolly and Idah playing in all the games. We have a good defence so that can stay but be tweeked in the next year or so. Bring in the youth. We have nothing to lose here. If we see the green shoots in 12 months time of 2-3 of them showing they are good internationals, then it is worth it.
He's taken two draws, including tonight, which I thought was the best performance of the three.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Yes, the opposition are mid-level mediocrity like ourselves. But we've been on the decline for a decade know and I don't know how much can really be put on Kenny here. There's so much more that's structurally inept in Irish football.
There's still two more games this week; let's see how they go.
Was Cullen not MOM in his first performandes for us, a real ability to unlock a defence.
I may have dreamt the MOM performance of course. The game was crying out for a player like Cullen.
I think Slovakia's poorness papered over a lot of the cracks tonight and a half decent side would have hammered us. Similar to the Bulgaria game in that respect.
I'm struggling to think of a positive other than the fact we kept a good shape. It's going to be a long time before we qualify for anything as our seeding is now ****ed. probably best to get relegated from nations league b so we can face sides at our level.
Just to be clear, I'm not having a go at Kenny at all. I'm not saying that 5 of the under 21 lads should have been in there tonight or anything like that. Those players for the most part aren't ready yet. You could argue the toss about one or two of the selections and subs but, overall, he's had to play the hand he was dealt. So he gets a free pass from me, but he needs to overhaul that team now and he must be given time to develop a new team and to allow the younger generation of players to come through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Realistically we're going nowhere with the midfield that started tonight. Hendrick went missing again after a bright start, having Hourihane is like being a man down and his set pieces weren't even any good. McCarthy was OK but got injured again and is probably not a long term option given his injury history. McClean once again did nothing except show lots of energy chasing after balls he had given away. Brady again was poor, I don't have much hope that he'll ever get back to the level he was once at. I really don't see much point in persisting with those five now, other than maybe McCarthy if he can remain fit and is committed to another campaign. But I would understand if he has had enough.
What I'm suggesting is that we move on from those players now, because we're going to have to sooner or later if we're ever going to improve. I have great hope for Molumby and Knight and there's an argument to fast track their progression now and start to build a team around them. They won't be any worse than Hendrick or Hourihane anyway and if we blood them sooner we could reap the benefits in a few years time. They know Kenny's system and have shown they can play it. If we start to integrate them in front of our defence, which to be fair is pretty solid, we can maybe start to build a team with confidence - especially if the likes of Connolly, Parrott and Idah can kick on up top. There's also Cullen and Browne, who I thought played well tonight. Maybe even Byrne. It'll take a full campaign probably to put it all together and we will probably need to write off the world cup, but I don't see that we have many other options at this stage.
I see the "liquefy the midfield and use the paste to nourish some teenagers who can't get a game in the Championship" argument is out. It's as predictable as our toothlessness at this stage.
Retiring Brady, McCarthy, McClean, Hendrick, and Hourihane is a fine plan to see our ranking drop to something on a par with Georgia.
Georgia will be overtaking us soon enough. They won tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
These same players have disappointed time and again, especially the midfield. At this stage I dont care if we play Byrne from the LOI or Smallbone from the bench at Southampton but we need to start making changes. Wales dont think twice about introducing a player before hes playing regularly for his club and we might have to start thinking similar.
Tonight was still an improvement but we have no creativity at all. Too many journeymen. We had 46% possession which is a massive improvement on recent years but we didnt know what to do with it.
Hourihanes miss was ridiculous, sums him up, everything is passive. No conviction in the shot. Hes a nothing player who strikes a ball well at times. He adds nothing to a game.
McCarthy and Hendrick did nothing either, sick of waiting for a midfielder to try take a game by scruff of the neck. All these guys have been given too many chances and we need to move on from them.
Does it matter if our ranking drops much further at this stage? We're going to be third seeds again now for the next qualifiers - once you fall below the top two pots you're going to get a tough draw anyway regardless of what pot you are in. I would say our chances of qualifying for 2022 are the lowest they've been for any tournament since the 80s.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
And of the replacement players mentioned only one is a teenager and he's a regular in the Championship and has been for over a year now. The others are 21, 24 and 25 (and all played regularly and performed well in that division last season). If we're at the point where we think we can't throw lads in their mid 20s in there to see how they get on, we might as well just give up.
I've seen more than enough of Hendrick, Hourihane and McClean now, I really have. It's been misery for the last three years watching them toiling out there while games pass them by. You could almost get away with having them there when we had a game plan that involved the ball flying over their heads most of the time, but now that we're playing through the middle it's obvious that they will have to be replaced before we will improve.
People who look at our midfield and can't imagine how it could possibly be worse lack imagination. The backups are backups because they're inferior players. If they weren't, they'd be starting in the Premiership. There might be an exception in there; it's Kenny's job and that of his coaching staff to figure that out in the course of training and scouting. The baby and bathwater crowd **** me off because they are stopped clocks. 90% of the players they champion never amount to anything more than the next Paul Green, if that.
No they're in there because sometimes it's harder to get out of the team than it is to get into it. Hourihane is a Premier League player in name only anyway, there's a reason Barkley was brought in to replace him last week. McClean hasn't played in the Premier League for a while now and is in and out of the Stoke team this season. Hendrick looks for all the world like a top level player but rarely plays like one.
I can understand why they were given these few games to prove themselves, Kenny came in to a tough situation and has only had a small amount of time with the squad before the three games. But they have shown yet again that we will achieve nothing as long as they are there. The younger lads are already as useful as them at worst, and potentially have a much higher ceiling. But they'll never develop if we don't give them a chance.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Kenny's attempting to revolutionise the team. This was his third game. We probably should have won. I saw lots of excellent things and a bunch of players 100 percent committed to giving their all. I was proud to be an Ireland fan tonight and look forward to the future.
The midfield was out played tonight by players from Genk and Parma. Maybe we need to stop looking at who the players play for and look at their performances instead
That's complete balls. Egan, Stevens and McGoldrick had been playing in the Championship (or lower) for most of their careers until Sheffield United got promoted and gave them the opportunity to play in the Premiership. They have proved themselves to be better than many players playing in the same positions in the Premiership, particularly those players who are not regular starters for clubs struggling at the wrong end of the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Point being, if Sheffield United got a couple of points less in the year they got promoted its very likely all these guys would still be playing in the Championship and people like you would be claiming that they shouldn't be keeping players like Kevin Long out of the team because he occasionally gets games for Burnley at a higher level.
We can expect certain players' retirements now, limiting our options further. And others will have to step up. Knight is one. O'Shea and Dunne being others.
Given previous failures, it's time to be bold.
Absolutely. Steve Finnan was barely out of what is now League 1 when he came into the Ireland setup, he went on to win the Champions League. We need to focus on how good the players are, not what level they play at or what team they play for.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
If Jason Knight had happened to sign with West Brom instead of Derby a few years ago he'd probably be a premier league player today. But it wouldn't make him any better or worse than he currently is - an exciting prospect with serious potential who is already showing that consistently for his club.
We're not talking about young lads going over to academies in England here - these lads are out playing senior games week in week out.
I'm not hanging him out to dry. I'm not saying "Kenny Out" or anything like that, but it isn't good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Slovakia are dreadful. Hamsik was easily the best player on the field tonight, but he doesn't have the legs to hurt teams on his own anymore. They'll be paying him well in China and he's earned it over the years. But now he's 90 minutes against the north away from having his swansong at a big tournament. Fair play to him.
They obviously knew they didn't have the players to hurt us. They had obviously watched us play in our last 2 games and decided that we have a defence they were unlikely to penetrate, but that we would be happy to run down the 120 minutes knocking the ball about in front of them. They had obviously decided that if they got bodies behind the ball we wouldn't be able to get through them, and they would maybe be able to nick a goal or go through on penos.
They were right on all counts. 3 games in we are already really predictable. We were better tonight, but not to enough of an extent to make a difference.
People are giving Hendrick a lot of grief. He's one of our better payers, and has had a cracking start to the season for Newcastle. What in gods name was he doing playing in front of the back 4? Every time I looked, Conor Hourihane, who actually does that job for Villa from time to time, was playing ahead of him. If that instruction came from the dugout, I have to question that. If it didn't I have to question why the dugout didn't stop it.
And then there's the subs. Kenny (rightly) gave McGoldrick a lot of praise after the game. But why was he taken off minutes before a penalty shootout? Who would you rather have hitting a penalty? David McGoldrick or Alan Browne? Has Alan Browne ever hit a penalty before?
I understand that it was unfortunate to lose Connolly and Idah, and that a big game is maybe not a time to take big risks, but it was absolutely an option tonight for Kenny to put on Molumby for McCarthy, and keep Hendrick further forward. If Hendrick was a problem, bringing on Jack Byrne to do that job was a readily available option. We did neither. We went with Shane Long and Robbie Brady.
What has either of these guys done for their country or club since 2016 to justify being in the squad, much less taking the field? They've both scored big goals for us in the past, but Ray Houghton has scored more and I don't want him coming on either. When Kenny was given the job I was under the impression that he was going to bring through exciting young players from the under 21 squad and build a team for the next decade. Alan Browne is 25. That's not an exciting young player. He's coming into his best years and he's still not playing in one of Europe's big leagues. He went to Preston 6 years ago, and he's still there. At this point I feel Preston is his probably his level.
But this is all moaning. We're never going to win the World Cup so it's only ever a question of when we fail. and over the years I think most of you know I try to be a constructive in my criticism. So what I'm saying is this. Tonight was half a loaf. So were Bulgaria and Finland. If playing football is the plan, go for it. While everyone else is planning for a Euros that might never happen, lets play a team with an average age of about 23 (now), with a view toward the next World Cup in 2 years time, or the Euros in just over 3 years time. That's how it's going to work, because we have nothing to aim towards until a World Cup in December 2022, followed by a Euros in June 2024.
Left back is a case in point. And you have to look back as well as forward to see where we've gone wrong.
Stephen Ward is 35. Enda Stevens is 30. Derrick Williams is 27. Ryan Manning is 24.
I'm sure Derrick is a lovely lad, but he's going to be 28 years old in January, and he's had 3 caps. He's never going to be good enough, so what on earth is he doing in our squad? By the time he gets up to speed with international football he'll be 30. If we had brought him into the squad at Manning's age now, and he had won a dozen caps before Ward got too old, he might be an experienced international now who was ready to pick up the baton for 2 world cup cycles. But we didn't, that hasn't happened, and 2 years from now our best case scenario is looking at having a 32 year old Enda Stevens chasing up and down the left flank at a World Cup held in the Arabian Desert. Sin é.
The truth is there isn't an awful lot between Williams and Manning. So we should go with the younger man. He has time on his side.
So I'm not saying Kenny out. I think he has made mistakes, but I think can grow in the job. I don't care one way or the other that he made his bones in the League of Ireland. I don't care if our manager came from the League of Mongolia as long as we win games. This isn't good enough, but the defeat presents an opportunity. What I want now is to see what the plan is to take us forward, What I want now is to see how we get to Qatar.
Aye. It felt like a good point away from home didn't it. ��Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
once hamsilk didnt score that own goal, I must say it was a sign. the referee was awful very bad guy.
I thought Kenny did wrong with the substitutions. Shane Long was needed , when he had to go for it he played browne who is the main responsable of our defeat dont want him again for a few years.
The eleven who started were ok,
ther refereee was awful.
we were the bettert team but couldnt get that 1st goal.. we will bounce back
did i say the referee was awful and in the 50/50 went in favor of the dark blue shirt
I think Hourihane played very good yesterday, bar that chance, whould have passed to mcgoldrick.
dont think mcgoldrick was so good, he is ok, but should have played off shane long at some stage
Have you not seen us play against Gibraltar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
we really improved because of hourihane hendrick and mccarthy.
mc goldrick was ok but needed shane long. Robinson started good but faded, mcclean improved in the last 20 of 1st time...i thought ther ref was against the irish. really awful guy!!
There's a certain symmetry to it though. Not long since Hourihane was scoring goals for fun in the Championship and we had to get rid of x or y to make room for him, and now the circle has squared once more. Give it three or four years and Knight will be a Premier League player who's not fit to lace the boots of the next prospect.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Hourihane was good yesterday as the other mids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I tought the game was ready for Long. Kenny wasnt right with his substitutions. Doherty was ok, but Coleman is the main player
I'm very surprised by people saying Slovakia are dreadful. They weren't amazing but they're a decent side, even without a couple of key players. Very much like ourselves. The way people are talking about them you'd swear they were Georgia or something.
Oh wait, Georgia completely outplayed us last time we went there.
I don't think Long is much use against a side who defend that deep. You had the choice between McGoldrick, who had to drop deep to get on the ball, or Long who does his best work running the channels. What we needed was a number nine and without Idah we don't have one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish