The board, Wellvan Entreprises and the club itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
We should, and must, have the book thrown at us.
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The board, Wellvan Entreprises and the club itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
We should, and must, have the book thrown at us.
Well tbh you were saying this for a long time and nobody listened. Do you ever feel like the boy who cried wolf?Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
Sorry ;)
The distinction being that DCFC can hopefully live on (albeit in different legal clothes and a different division), whereas Wellvan will be caput.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
Far from straightforward Steve.
Question No 1: How is our debt incurred this year a signficant multiple of our "licensed" annual wage bill? Not sure that can be answered with a straight face.
To the Shels posters above dusting off their high horses for some quality moral outrage, I'd say we're guilty of exactly some of the tricks you were guilty of and I doubt we'll get away with a one step demotion. C'est la vie. As Kev says above, we deserve it.
The main problem for the future is that there may be significant legal problems around starting a new vehicle due to the historic exemption to play in the LoI. Although why this wasn't a problem the last two times we went under I'm not entirely sure.
Fun times.
There was a news clip of Delaney on the radio this morning saying the situation is very grave and he hopes Derry can come through it in some division.
Not exact words there but sounded like the minimum punishment will be relegation to Division 1
We're angry. If they board have handed in cooked books, or lied to the FAI they need strung up in Guildhall Square. ****ing disgrace.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheifo
Derry may well be demoted and there is no doubt (If what the articles say is true) that they deserve it but after the Cork debacle of the last 2 years and they're stilll playing premier football, i'm not going to hold my breath. Also before someone mentions it, i'm not sitting here rubbing my hands at the thought of Derry being demoted.
Maybe, if anything, i'm sitting here rubbing my hands at the thought of the FAI actually following their own rules and carrying out a worthy punishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
We're just looking for even-handedness from the FAI.
They rightly came down heavy on Shels ((and Cobh), but have not down the same with Cork and Drogs.
We just sense another fudge.
What sum of money would Derry need to at least get a First Division licence, so they would have some chance of rebuilding like Shelbourne?
Someone on Radio Foyle said "not even £1million would save Derry City". Dunno how true that is. Public lynching for whoever is behind this mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy Bowsie
I personally think the FAI would've fudged it if they could, as they haven't exactly gone searching for issues at any club, except in this case I believe someone brought something to their attention that they couldn't ignore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buile Shuibhne
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
What did I tell you Mr A?
You told me there'd be more craziness Kev.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
Replace months with years.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheifo
Our last filed accounts (2007) were prepared under an almost entirely different board, who resigned en masse and left signing them to the new board.
I didn't believe the wage bill then either.
Have heard Derry are relegated and Bray v Drogs will be the play offs. Was apparently on TV3. Can anyone confirm?
Also heard this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever
Nothing in particular on the internet at the moment (bar Derry being relegated in the GAA); sounds a bit quick for a decision to have been made. Wouldn't be surprised though.
Interesting to look back at the thread on the 2009 licencing - Derry were one of only two or three clubs which the Indo reported had no outstanding issues.
Would relegation be seen as a (relatively) good outcome for Derry, given the alternative is reforming in the A League?
Have done a bit of scouring but can't find anything on those stories. Which isn't to say it isn't true, but there's so many rumours at the moment.
From today's Irish Times
FAI to hold emergency meeting over Derry's future
EMMET MALONE
Fri, Nov 06, 2009
LEAGUE OF IRELAND: THE BOARD of FAI will hold an emergency meeting tomorrow to consider Derry City’s future amid growing concerns about the club’s ability to survive the deepening crisis that has enveloped it.
City have been struggling to meet their financial commitments for some time, with players largely unpaid for the last nine weeks. Other debts have been mounting to the point where, while estimates vary considerably, there appears to be upwards of €300,000 owed in total.
A portion of that is due to Dungannon Swifts, with the Irish League outfit entitled to a percentage of the deal that brought Niall McGinn to Celtic. Having failed to secure their money after a number of attempts, Dungannon recently initiated a court action to have City wound up.
The club’s more immediate problem might centre on the accuracy of financial documentation provided to the FAI over the course of this season. Speaking yesterday at the launch of a licensing system aimed at providing regulation of scouts operating for foreign clubs in Ireland, FAI chief executive John Delaney declined to reveal what had come to light at a meeting on Wednesday evening between officials representing the association and club, but said the matter would be considered by the association last night.
Soon after this meeting finished, it was announced that the board is to be convened tomorrow. The precise agenda was not revealed but Delaney described the state of affairs at the Brandywell as “grave” more than once yesterday before stating that “if we do find a situation where we’ve been given information which differs from what it should have been then we will take it very seriously”.
He provided a hint of just how “seriously” when he said that the matter is likely to be dealt with quickly as it might well have implications for the relegation play-offs.
That would, at the very least require a points deduction of something approaching 20 points although the sense in Abbotstown yesterday was that outright relegation is very much a possibility.
“I want to make it clear that I know what it means to the FAI to have Derry City competing in the league and also what it means to everyone in Derry to be a part of the League of Ireland but I would be really concerned about the meeting that took place last night,” said Delaney. “At this stage I hope that Derry City do survive but in what guise they might survive, I really don’t know.”
Cobh Ramblers were mentioned shortly afterwards and while a direct connection was not made, it was revealed that the FAI is looking at the possibility of appointing an independent, outside chairman to run the club for a period of a year to 18 months in an attempt to help stabilise it after what has been a turbulent spell.
Ramblers dropped out of the First Division last year after failing to lodge the required accounts with the association and amid considerable internal strife.
Cork City also remains a major concern, admitted Delaney, who criticised the “cavalier” manner in which a number of clubs had approached their finances over the last couple of years. He described some of the situations that have arisen this season at the Turner’s Cross outfit as “just rubbish” and said that the club’s problems had had a negative impact on the league generally.
Indeed, such is the seriousness of the situation generally at present that the players’ union, the PFAI, has threatened to go on strike at the start of next season unless the association guarantees more rigorous control over players’ contracts through its licensing system. “We don’t see it having got any better,” said the union’s general secretary, Stephen McGuinness, with regard to the league‘s financial situation.
Meanwhile, Delaney said he expected a deal to be finalised over the next week on the rights to broadcast the second leg of Ireland’s World Cup play-off against France in Paris on November 18th.
Reports yesterday said RTÉ and Sky were well short of the €1.5 million the French Football Federation were seeking for broadcast rights, and that a live broadcast of the game was in doubt.
However, Delaney dismissed this as “commercial posturing”.
Nominations for player of the year: Jason Byrne (Bohemian FC), Raffaele Cretaro (Sligo Rovers), Gary Deegan (Bohemian FC), Brian Shelley (Bohemian FC), Chris Turner (Dundalk), Gary Twigg (Shamrock Rovers).
© 2009 The Irish Times
From today's Irish Daily Mail
Derry warned: Your survival is at stake
By: PHILIP QUINN
CRISIS club Derry City are on the brink of demotion to the First Division as punishment for apparent anomalies in their players' contracts for the 2009 season.
The pride of the north-west, currently fourth in the Premier Division ahead of tonight's final game of the season at Dundalk, appear destined for a fall to the lower tier of Irish club football over a relative pittance compared to the £750,000 they owe creditors.
FAI chiefs met behind closed doors last night to decide on Derry's fate with John Delaney, the FAI chief executive, admitting he had 'grave concerns' for the future of the club. Fran Gavin, the League of Ireland director, warned 'the survival of the club is at stake'.
The Derry distress signals were sent out following a summit at Abbotstown on Wednesday night between senior League of Ireland figures and Derry chairman Pat McDaid, the outcome of which prompted Delaney's intervention.
Without being specific about what emerged at the meeting, Delaney outlined a bleak future for the twice league champions.
Pointedly, he did not make reference to the club's huge debts. 'If any club provide material financial information and it's subsequently proven that information is incorrect, then you have to take action. You have to be fair to the clubs who have played by the rules,' said Delaney.
'We got the May accounts earlier from Derry in the year where we noticed things weren't as good as they should have been, after which we put a transfer embargo in to make sure there was no increased spend on bringing in extra players 'I was concerned for Derry then and I'd have graver concerns after what I heard last night,' added Delaney, who said events would move fast and that a decision on Derry's future is likely today.
'We have to deal with the events of last night, which were reported to me, in a difficult manner.
'The outcome of that meeting will be determined pretty quickly. Because if we take certain sanctions, it affects the play-offs,' he added.
That remark suggests there is a distinct possibility that Bray Wanderers, who finished 10th in the Premier Division, may now play ninth-placed Drogheda United in the play-offs, while St Pat's, Sligo Rovers and Galway United could be spared Asked if Derry City would be playing in the Premier Division next season, Delaney said: 'I think their situation is grave. In what guise they survive or in what division they play in will be determined as events unfold, I don't know.
'It's up to the people who run the club to salvage it, but the ramifications of the meeting and the content which was discussed, could be quite severe.' Discrepancies in player contracts appears to be a particular area of FAI concern.
Sportsmail was told of one senior player whose contract, submitted to the FAI, had him being paid 'X' amount but that he was also being paid a separate sum on another contract.
Delaney is acutely aware of the value which Derry have brought to the League since they joined in 1985 and won't want to lose one of the biggest and best supported clubs they have.
'When Derry came into the League, they brought thousands of fans for Cup finals. I know what it means to the FAI to have Derry in the League; and I know what it means to the people of Derry too,' he said.
€8.6MWAGE BILL FOUR clubs spent €8.6million on players' wages in 2008, according to League figures released yesterday. Cork City spent most with €2.35m, ahead of Drogheda with €2.25m — both had 10 points deducted for entering examinership. St Pat's spent €2.2m and champions Bohemians €1.9m. Salaries to players made up 50 per cent of all expenditure while debts to directors and banks made up 61 per cent of all clubs' liabilities.
From next year, wages to managers and coaches will be factored into the salary cap protocol. Club's losses were down to €2.7m in 2008 while attendances in the Premier Division for 2009 are up 17 per cent.
Takes me back - remember all the posts about which of the big four wasn't spending the most?Quote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
That is at least one of the smoking guns which will come out.Quote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
Stu,
The trading company should be wound up, we have debts of around £600,000.
On a selfish note, it would be great for Harps as we would be guaranteed at least one big gate in the season in this ****hole of a division.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
On another note, would Derry's relegation (rumoured) to "only" Division 1 add fuel to the fire about the rumours about the A league being done away with.
I can't recall there being any reports of a transfer embargo on Derry. Can anyone clarify if this was made public?Quote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
I would prefer to be ****ed out of the league completely, and have to start from the bottom, whether that be the A League or the First Division next season. We can't continue under Wellvan. There is no trust or confidence. If the board isn't cleaned out next season, I can see a lot of people simply staying at home in protest. It historically doesn't take much for a good section of our support to flee.
Don't think it was. First I've heard of it anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Surely a decision can't be made until the meeting tomoz? Relegation is too good for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever
If you had told me at the beginning of the season that Harps would be in a better state than Derry at the end of the season I would have told you to seek professional help! Roll on the Northwest derby next year;)
Derry City v Finn Harps A?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finlay Harp
There will be a fudge no doubt. A League scrapped maybe, or the FAI will somehow allow Wellvan to continue as the holding company (please god, no).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Pol,
It will be nothing to do with the FAI.
The Dungannon winding up order, the HMRC are circulating, the legal ramifications of "off the books" payments. All those will kill us long before the Licensing First Instance Committee meets.
If they do, that's any last shred of credibility in licencing gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by pól-dcfc
But as Kev points out, there's at least other bodies around who'll help enforce licencing for the FAI.
Good. I hope that they are taken to pieces. A new club is what is needed. I'd quite like to be in the First Division rather than the A League though, but I'll be more than happy if I have a club to support next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Will this have personal ramifications for board members past and present? Disbarring from directorships for a period?
No I meant Finn Harps v Finn Harps A:DQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
First division isnt as evil as some would make it out to be. Some good football, nice little grounds and of course the friendliest fans!
An article I read a while back that could have similarities.
http://www.worldfootballcolumns.com/...-1-sc-farense/
Sweet Jasus ! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by pól-dcfc
The first division is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme