No doubt you'll get the usual red-necked suspects all over trying to defend their golden boy, biyQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
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No doubt you'll get the usual red-necked suspects all over trying to defend their golden boy, biyQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
ROG was stupid beyond belief, an absolute penalty, no contest but wtf was he doing kicking possession away in the last minute of a tied test match in the first place???
It might sounds bitter but I think every close call has gone the Boks way in the 2 tests.
Plus all respect I had for John Smit went out the window when he came waving an imaginary card to the ref, does he think he's f--king Ronaldo
I never had you down as a narrow minded idiot, but you're slowly changing my mind. The point I was making was that it would be a good opportunity to pick himself back up straight away. I am in no way biased in my posts in this thread... I am a Lions supporter here, not a Munster one.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I'm not overly optimistic about the future if James Hook is it...terrible decision maker, his brains not quick enough and he doesn't have it in him to change a game for the better.
Not sure if I would call ROG's decision to kick to try and force the issue from deep in his own half stupid, they had to try something. However, what is inexcusable was how he bottled out of the challenge to gather his own kick. If he had shown even a small proportion of the commitment and bravery that Rob Kearney showed all game in going to gather the high ball and challenged for the ball, he would never have been penalised.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
Stupid - No, Windy - Yes.
Agree about John Smit. Could not believe how the Sky panelists bigged him up after his post match interview but never mentioned the disgraceful imaginary card incident.
Lions were superb in the 1st half but offered nothing for pretty much the entire second half. If SA could have taken their penalties it would not have been so tight.
Am I the only one you thinks it was not a try for SA? You could see from behind the goal that the ball was level with his head & then when put together with the other angle his foot is out of touch.
Touch judge really the ref down. He tells him it is at least a yellow (what does that mean) so presumably he saw the incident. Ludicrous decision. Burger should miss Tri-Nations for that.
For a long time I have wondered what touch judges do. They never make a call for try decisions often when clearcut & use the TMO too much.
The foot that was in touch was definitely the player behind him. I think the right call was made.
The injuries killed them but they also went into their shell a little in the second half as the Boks started to go up the gears. It was a great game of rugby and it's such a shame that the third test doesn't have anything riding on it.
Kearney was outstanding and Shaw justified his selection.
O'Gara? I don't know what to say really.
There is no munster bias on my part... Im not a Munster supporter, im not Connacht, Leinster or Ulster. These teams are just feeder teams into the Irish squad to me (well not really connacht).
ROG is an Irish legend and deserves respect for what he has done for the Irish team since his debut in 2000. Without him Ireland would NOT have one the Grandslam or the triple crowns over the past few years. It doesnt matter how good our outside backs are or our forwards, without a quality FH no team will win anything of any meaning in world rugby. No ROG would have mean't Paddy Wallace playing FH for the last few years, that would not have brought us any success.
Im disgusted by the lack of respect show to him.... I expect it from English and Welsh fans but not fellow Irishmen.
Yes he made a mistake but it could have been anyone to have a rush of blood like that... Because its ROG people are quick to jump on him, its pathetic!!
If ROG had been as quick to jump for the ball then people would not be jumping on him at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by JGKyne
There is a difference between making a mistake and turning your back on a ball you has hoisted instead of jumping to contest it. He lost his bottle and pulled out of the contact.
How do you respect a player who is not prepared to put himself on the line?
Narrow minded? Your team for the second test picked every Munster player apart from O'Gara.Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
You had Earls in over Fitz, despite Earls being a weaker kicker, tackler and passer and wing being his least recognised position.
I was harsh on O'Gara because I was angry that he cost us the game. Superhoops post sums up my view. I've no idea why he kicked possession away in the last minute anyway.
But in terms of the last test, I'm not sure bringing someone in who won't tour again is the right thing to do. Now is the time to play Hook, Earls etc.
you obviously havent seen ROG play too much if you think he's a bottlerQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I think Hook is a better option against the physicality of the Springboks. However I thought Philips decided to kick possession away continuously in the second half and that was the main problem. ROG had a nightmare performance in what will probably be his last appearance in a Lions shirt.
It seemed to me to be a change in tactics at half time, we kicked a lot more ball away, which in dry warm conditions perfect for teams to run seemed a strange decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy
In ROG's defence he was brought in at centre where he would be very very unfamiliar territory for him, no excuses for his rush of blood for the penalty though.
I thought he played out half and Jones went into centre. His re-starts indicate this tooQuote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
I agree. He had a really bad 12 minutes & suddenly he is & always has been a rubbish player. When he put the kick up he was looking for the player next to him to run too but that player made no effort. I would fault ROG for not jumping but can't fault him for kicing the ball he did. Incidently if Jones had kicked the free kick into touch it would never have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by JGKyne
Been reading a bit on BBC website 606 & comments lack any perspective. People also queuing up to slate Earls after game 1 but latee on suggesting he be on the bench for test 2.
Correct. Jones went to outside centre I believe with Bowe inside him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
It is easy to debate in hindsight but I think there were some poor decisions related to the bench. I would have Earls instead of Williams as offers more options. I thought it was trange to substitute Wallace for Williams as already had 3 second rows on the pitch. Shaw had a very good game but he was tiring & taking him off would have been better option.
De Villers' comments were a disgarce too. As brillliant a spectacle as top class rugby union is, I still can't help feel that there's a reluctance high up to take on some of the worst aspects of the game. Burger gets 8 weeks - a joke of a suspension. I can't imagine he'll lose much sleep over yesterday's headline in The Observer - "5 Lions in Hospital, Burger Takes The Blame" . If anything he'd cut it out & show to his grandchildren :)
Still, imagine if the ball sailing through the posts with the clock already run down was at Cardiff. Such a fine line and all that. What was it Kipling said about defeat & victory?
I think it was Fitzgerald with Bowe and Williams in the wings.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
If ROG did go fly half I take back my defence of him ;) from his positioning for the try I thought he was where I'd expect my centre to be.
I agree. His comments about Burger incident not deserving even a yellow card was disgraceful & if it was football probably would be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. The other incidents were just part of the game & the Lions gave as good as they got but gouging is completely different. How does Quinlan get 12 weeks & Burger 8 weeks? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Quote:
"I don't believe it was a card at all," stated De Villiers. "In the first minute already there had been a lot of needle and if you watch the whole game you will see how many yellow cards they were let off.
First time on here since Saturday. O'Gara getting a lot of slagging which i suppose is fair enough. That belt on the forehead must have done some damage tho. I mean watching O'Gara over the years I can't help but wondering if he hadn't got that bang in the head when he came on, would he have just kicked the ball into the stand when he recieved it in the 22 in the last minute - i'm almost certain he would.
I think the selectors got it wrong again - they messed up big time again by picking poor subs - i don't think any substitue made an impact - and you need to pick 2 props in the subs IMO. Uncontested scrums were a big factor against them, and was avoidable.
I don't think the concept is dead tho - think this tour has done a lot for the credibility of the lions - i mean there was 5 lads in hospital after the game? Shows that the players care, and its pretty obvious ths supporters care so hopefully it can continue.
Its a digrace that Burger only got 8 weeks. A case of a big name influencing the citing commission decision. I guarantee if it happened at any other level it would be a minimum 6 month ban.
2 weeks for Botha, misses next weeks dead rubber, big deal.
8 for Burger is designed so he misses just the first half of the tri-nations, had it been the 12 that Quinlan got he would have missed the whole thing & rightly so.
Who, Mr Kipling?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
"Exceedingly good cakes"
O'Driscoll is out of the 3rd test as he is flying home tomorrow (wednesday).
He is out of the test because he is flying home?! I don't get that? Is he injured?
You know the old joke:Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Do you like Kipling?
I don't know, I've never Kippled.
2nd bout of concussion on the tour so rightly sent home. I don't think he could take a 3rd dose.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Its annoying when you see with little time left and one man makes a huge tackle to try and rally the others, yet none step up to the plate. At that time the BOKs really looked like they were going to pull ahead and win quite easily and then o'driscoll does that. None of the other players took up the mantle at that stage. POC as captain should have, but he never seems to be able make those hards yards or make those crunching tackle that I think a good captain should be able make. You could say O'Gara too*
*But the brother did get me thinking that he didn't seem too sure about what he was doing, and that he might still have been concussed. Its not usually like him to "loose the head" i.e. over-exuberant in this case. Though if you have been sitting on the bench for 150 odd minutes of 2 test games it might be hard to contain yourself.
I'd worry about O'Driscoll's career and indeed his long-term health. He had another one in this years 6N.
Recent medical evidence is pointing towards multiple concussions resulting in longer term brain injury
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...cussions_N.htm
BOD needs a few months off and maybe invest in a Peter Cech style head cap! Legend.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the team for the third test. Flutey or Earl's at 13?
I'd love to see Earls get a run, he's been excellent in the games I've seen him
A Roberts/Earls midfield would certainly not lack for pace. Earls might struggle defensively but would make up for it in attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
Flutely has done nothing to impress so far & while he could get a place at 12 don't see him as a 13.
I thought Roberts was out of third test as well?
Pre-tour i thought Flutey was the favourite for parterning BOD but he's been absolute sh!t, if Roberts is out I'd stick Hook & Earls in the centre
And leave out a natural centre in D'Arcy? I think not....Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
:eek: I'd forgotten D'Arcy was even there :o
British & Irish Lions (vs South Africa, 3rd Test)
15 Rob Kearney (Leinster / Ireland)
14 Ugo Monye (Harlequins / England)
13 Tommy Bowe (Ospreys / Ireland)
12 Riki Flutey (London Wasps / England)
11 Shane Williams (Ospreys / Wales)
10 Stephen Jones (Scarlets / Wales)
9 Mike Phillips (Ospreys / Wales)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster / Ireland)
7 Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues / Wales)
6 Joe Worsley (London Wasps / England)
5 Paul O’Connell (Munster / Ireland, Captain)
4 Simon Shaw (London Wasps / England)
3 Phil Vickery (London Wasps / England)
2 Matthew Rees (Scarlets / Wales)
1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks / England)
Replacements
16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh / Scotland)
17 John Hayes (Munster / Ireland)
18 Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys / Wales)
19 David Wallace (Munster / Ireland)
20 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers / England)
21 Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers / England)
22 James Hook (Ospreys / Wales)
Earls not making at least the bench is a shock especiallly after his last couple of games. Flutey has had an awful tour, I can't see any justification for him playing & moving Bowe out of position when he's been the Lions only form winger on tour seems rather odd.
Vickery's inclusion is a disaster waiting to happen (again)
Not sure what Wallace did wrong to get dropped, but Williams is fine by me.
Boks side, plenty of changes too, not many weak links though, Brussow should be first choice & Kankowski is top class.
I don't rate Olivier but he's very highly thought of in SA, Kirchner is an actual full back which makes a change. Ndungane is an excellent finisher but I haven't seen the other winger (don't see too many Cheetahs games)
South Africa: Kirchner (Bulls); Ndungane (Sharks), Fourie (Lions), Olivier (Bulls), Nokwe (Cheetahs); M Steyn (Bulls), Du Preez (Bulls); Mtawarira (Sharks), Ralepelle (Bulls), Smit (Sharks), Muller (Sharks), Matfield (Bulls), Brussow (Cheetahs), Smith (Cheetahs), Kankowski (Sharks).
Replacements: B du Plessis (Sharks), Steenkamp (Bulls), Carstens (Sharks), Sykes (Sharks), Spies (Bulls), R Pienaar (Sharks), F Steyn (Sharks).
Is Fitzgerald injured?