Holy crap. That's a remarkable load of garbage even by that lunatic's standards!
Difficult to even know where to start...
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Holy crap. That's a remarkable load of garbage even by that lunatic's standards!
Difficult to even know where to start...
Except as someone pointed out before in relation to O'Keefe or one of his colleagues, they say what the rest of FF thinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I wonder how many of those that voted for the various measures around the banking sector actually have shares in them? Clear conflict of interest if they did so, not that that seems in this country.
Edit: Stolen from politics.ie:
O'Keefe is a one man advertisement for why we need the ability to recall politicians.Quote:
Deputy O'Keefe's substantial portfolio of shares includes, according to the register of members interests, investments in a large number of financial concerns, specifically Permanent TSB, A.I.B., Bank of Ireland, Lloyds TSB, Standard Life Plc, Experian, FBD Insurance, Royal Sun Alliance Plc, AIB European Commercial Property Fund Bond & Barrington Capital.
Register of Members Interests of Dáil Éireann 1 January 2007 - 31 December 2007 - Tithe an Oireachtais
This country is one large conflict of interest!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
The worst bit about the article is the way the comments aren't even challenged. Don't have to go into detailed analysis, but surely a two-line comment highlighting what's wrong with it is surely doable? Media shouldn't exist to make it seem like idiots actually have a point.
We shouldn't be surprised - light touch regulation was and is FF policy since 1997. It's the rest of the Government benches that are contradicting their views, as borne out by how they did set regulation policy (no matter how much they try and hang it on the scapegoat). Sure as recently as this time last year Lenihan was standing with the UK in opposing the such strict regulation as the EU was proposing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Is anyone surprised? TD gets a nudge from a lobbyist/party whip to ask a question, question asked, big fudge, and then we're all in the same mess again. What surprised me most this week has been the fact that this is supposed to be a good time to buy houses - despite the property market still overvalued and in need of deflation. Banks and Builders and those who hold lots of land rule.
David McWilliams doesn't agree.
I don't think think houses will come down to the levels David mentions, and I don't think you can say that it's a bad time to buy a house across the board (I'm buying one myself at the moment), but there is still an awful lot of overpriced property out there. The affordable houses flooding onto the market will definitely bring the market down further though.
Agreed, the government and their buddies won't let it bottom out, so we'll be stuck with overpriced junk for years to come. I wouldn't want to buy at the moment because of lots of reasons, however if you're getting a good discount on a property then why not.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
It's worth noting too that David ignores the quality factor, building standards have improved substantially in the last 20 years.
I'm taking full advantage by buying from a liquidator. No builder's warranty, but sure what's that worth these days anyway...
You're right buying from that outlet, though I don't know if building standards have risen in any way - in fact in some cases it's even worse than back in the 60's and 70's. It can come down to the poor level of workmanship on some houses to wafer thin walls and shallow foundations. Also, and this is something that I still get cheesed off about, all the wonderful hard working east europeans who landed in to work on sites didn't help. I still remember a development in Blanchardstown where the contractor proudly told me - "We've got fellas with degrees and even a doctor working there, jaysus we've one fella who has a degree in nuclear physics working as a chippy." That degrees cost a little more to buy than bog roll in eastern europe (a Masters in English rubberstamped by a real university will set you back $100 at B.I. Lenin metro station) has nothing to do with being a capable worker on a building site. Which leads me back to what I mentioned, I've been to lots of new builds with my sister when she was looking for a place and in all but 2 in the Dublin and Dublin area (including one major spot in Lucan) the workmanship wasn't up to snuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Older buildings do send to be a bit more solidly built, though that often covered for some shoddy worksmanship - wiring in particular can be in a state fit to make an electrician cry (with joy, as he tells the owner that he'll have to rip it all out and redo it all). Insulation was patchy too. Builders have always cut corners.
And always will. But building regs are much stronger now. There'll always be shoddy estates, and houses, but generally speaking houses are safer and more energy-efficient now.
Did anyone see the programme on Ghost Estates last night on RTE1?
It's mind numbing to think Leitrim does not need any new houses to be built for about nine years. Sure there are many more examples.
It's all very well blaming the planning Authorities, Government , banks etc but how on earth did builders think there was demand for houses in these god for saken farmer fields 100 miles from Dublin? I'm proabaly going to offend people now but I went o school with guys of "average" intellegence in the 90s who ten years later were driving X5s with speed boats behind them and 5 year on are back on the carrer path forecast at parent teacher meetings in the 90s......
A Good friend at the Bank last monday. Owns a three bed semi in a Midland town since 05. Probably in about 20% negitive equity. He and his missus want to trade up and out and build on a site (family plot but would need the pay off some family members). Bank Told him to go away and sell his own before they would give a 80% mortgage or if he wished he they bank would give 50% of the new build. This would amount to about 100k for a 200 k. BOI reckon they are granting 100 morgages a day, or 25,000 a year. Who are they Kidding?
Lucy thinks there is more to fall and prices to return to 2000 levels. 3 bed semis were £IR100k in 2000 in Athlone.
Property trap.
Apparently the 100 mortgages a day number is bull, the numbers relate to preapprovals.
Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
The tax breaks made them viable. There were tax breaks for building, and substantial tax breaks for investors (i.e. none owner occupiers). As I understand it, even if they never rented the houses, the tax they could write off made them worthwhile. At the same time it acted as a disincentive to be owner occupiers. It was Government policy that created the "market" and ultimately lead to the ghost estates. To think that Cowen et al got their knickers in a twist over recent accusations in the dail!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr Damo
It'll be interesting to watch the next few shows. A couple of things already bugged me even from last night, so god knows how I'll feel when the politicians get involved in the programmes - the "we are were we are, don't look back" is bull. The incumbents are the one's that created this mess. There should be no loss of focus on that this side of an election lest the many thick electorate forget. Sure, we need solutions, but those that lead us in must be punished at the ballot box for their incompetence (given they deny it was deliberate). There'll be the crap about no one seeing this coming as well from FF apologists - remember the complaints about the Futureshock programme that Curran did that FF lept on. His job was apparently under threat because of it - remember Bertie wondering why the naysayers didn't just go an committ suicide. They'll also try and hang the financial regulator - who it turns out Cowen only deemed necessary to meet twice in four years when he was Finance Minister. http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-2173983.html
Unfortunately I heard it on the radio during a debate several weeks ago. I guess "Newstalk" is the best I can do. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I doubted it as well, but I would've thought its more along the lines of, "you applied for (e.g.) €300k, we'll approve you for €200k". i.e. its a mortgage approval, but in reality feck all use to the applicant.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
That said, I do feel there's an element of damned if you do, damned if you don't, in that people howled that the banks were lending too much and thats what got us into this mess (which is completely correct), now the banks are supposedly inhibiting the country getting back on its feet by coming over all sensible about lending money....
This country needs to get over its property ownership at all costs mentality IMO.
The Guy I mentioned has decided to withdraw his savings from the Bank he was with and merge them with the wifes savings (they are recently married) in an otherbank. In doing so, they leave Mortgage A with Bank A and no savings.
Normally a bank view mortgages as an asset and a deposit as a liability but not any more! Bank B are more receptive to their application and they are on a second meeting.
Yes banks over shot on the way up but aren't helping themselves on the way down and you'd have to question their wisdom, they didn't do a good job managing the boom after all so why have faith in this more conservitive approach? & Why isn't salary a consideration (or to the point, why are they only considering loan to value?) i.e if a couple have combined income of 100k gross, it seems mad they can borrow only 200k for a 300 k house!
It's not like motor insurance though ORA, they don't have to give you a quote. I went to BOI, AIB, EBS and IN last year and all bar one basically told me to feck off. My circumstances are unusual, but my track record is excellent and my wife's is pretty much incredible given the idiocy of the last decade. There's no logical reason why they would turn us down - particularly BOI, who we had both banked with for decades and did actually "preapprove" us - so it has to have been policy with little regard for actual circumstances.
EDIT: I should add that while I agree with you at a very basic level on the idiocy of consumers in the past decade, I believe that the banks carry a far greater responsibility for this position. Banks are supposed to be experts on finance, and have (or had) a position of trust in the financial business. Normal people can't afford finanicial advisors, so they went to the banks in the belief that they would be advised appropriately. Of course they were mistaken, and they won't do it again, but they were just naive. The banks weren't naive, they knew exactly what was happening and turned a blind eye to it.
Aye, and shows we haven't reached the bottom of the market in terms of prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
It needs the legislation to provide the tenants rights that will change that. But sure where would the builders/ developers have been without people desperate to buy houses?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Doing something that was actually productive!Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Totally agree though. Its a simple indicator that expectation is we're not at the bottom yet, or at least being prudent (there's a word that hasn't been used for 15 years.....) there should be an expectation of further falls.
Anyone see the banner outside Anglo this morning? Bankers, trade unionists and politicians (some named, usual suspects) are traitors and wasters and "the people" are heroes. No mention of developers or builders....... wonder who put it up :)
No, didn't see the banner, but I saw futureshock and the bit after wards with Kenny. Finally, the notion that we should up skill & up sell and the that higher value jobs would get us out of this has been hit for six.
90,000 jobs in the public sector and 150,000 construction jobs "created" during the boom so we could sell houses to each other is mind blowing. That's was about 12% of the work force at that time.
"Real" jobs imo (manufacturing) have been in decline since 2001& that should be in neon lights. PS and beards were you watching??
I think we have to have further falls in terms of costs but the risng boats of the US and China are going to drive the Dollar and oil upwards that in turn feeds inflation here. Steel is up 30% in 2010 (more to come) yet the mills are at 60% capacity (of the boom). All we need now is rising inflation in Germany and France and interest rates start to rise and the piigs will fly over the moon.
similar one in Blanchardstown, can't remember the exact wording, but it's something like "Support Quinn Insurance workers, keep <really massive amount of euros> away from the dole"Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
think it was a billion, but it might not have been
here's the banner outside Anglo Irish Bank: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...d=393555717244
Click the image to open a zoomed in version
Class. That cherry picker wouldn't have been cheap, who's responsible? If it's the socialists I'll lost interest and respect instantly.
(Not because of their ideals, but because of the way the express them.)
That there was an increase in construction jobs isn't the real issue - it was that it was on an unsustainable bubble. Even if the economy had been properly managed there would've been some gain in construction jobs (more infrastructure than houses admittedly, if they hadn't been outsourced to exploiting foreign companies like GAMA who Harney is so fond of). Similarly, a growing population needs more public services, which need more public servants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr Damo
Must admit I stopped watching the programme when the fella was going on about political reform. The problem isn't the system it's the electorate - why would someone go to their TD to get a passport and expect it to be delivered personally to them? But yer man was droning on about blaming the system! Who would he have, the entreprenuers from the banks and property sector that have bankrupted the country? Decided if that was the "quality" then I wouldn't waste my time.
Btw I assume "beards" means trade unionists? If it is, can we drop this patheticness please - it's ruined debate on politics.ie imo, no need to spread the nonsense here.
Fr. Damo, Ireland arguably has NEVER had a significant manufacturing sector of any real note to lose (unlike say Britain).
Screwing together computer components as part of a transfer pricing whizz doesn't count as manufacturing IMO and we have never had proper heavy industry. Its not an accident that Shorts, Harland & Wolff etc. were from Belfast.
The areas we have been strong in since the 70s, i.e. IT and pharma/biomed are still crucially important to the economy.
As I said above, I presumed its a builder/developer thats behind it as they are noticeably exempt from being either a traitor or a waster.......!Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
It's never Mick Wallace is it? I would have expected better from him though.
My first thought was Wallace too, he's never been without criticism of other developers though so I doubt he'd be leaving them off the hook.
[Look, we had 150,000 in construction producing shopping centers for foreign tenants to repatriate profits and on shoe box apartments that are frankly short on engineering. When these jobs were finished the extra 150,000 in construction were always going to end up struggling to find work and that's the point. Foresight!(or lack thereof)Quote:
QUOTE=Macy;1356764]That there was an increase in construction jobs isn't the real issue - it was that it was on an unsustainable bubble. Even if the economy had been properly managed there would've been some gain in construction jobs (more infrastructure than houses admittedly, if they hadn't been outsourced to exploiting foreign companies like GAMA who Harney is so fond of). Similarly, a growing population needs more public services, which need more public servants.
On the second part I think it has been thrashed out many times before though I will add if you strip out Armed forces from the GB, French , German public services I think you'll find we are above the European average, not that tells us a whole lot!
Fair Comment.Quote:
Btw I assume "beards" means trade unionists? If it is, can we drop this patheticness please - it's ruined debate on politics.ie imo, no need to spread the nonsense here.
(London) Times blog piece: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7122237.ece
Quote:
Ireland, the Pig getting out of the muck
If you’re deep in debt, the Irish can show you a way out
Did the Pigf*cker go down on Bronwen Maddox or what?
Pity she didn't do a little research into who put Ireland into this mess in the first place. Damn straight he should muck out his own sty. If someone had stuck his nose in it, instead of fawning all over him like this ill-informed idiot, he might've done it earlier.
Well, I feel a lot better now knowing that our popular minister of finance has the support of the people.Quote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
Diabolical journalism to suggest that a lack of Greek-style protests actually implies support for the measures.
Was in Dublin city centre last night just before the protest outside the Garden of Remembrance began. Thought it was just another bunch of idiots harassing pedestrians on their way home from work, "down with this sort of thing", etc.
Didn't realise until I saw the news later that this was the same crowd that stormed the Dail
Do you work for the herald? RTE were at it all day - Liveline harrassed a protestor about his political links and for being a former shinner, at the same time as letting an idiot on attacking the protests, that it was an affront to democracy, that the Government is doing a great job for most of the show before establishing he was in fact a member of FF.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
If you have a growing public, who require public services, it's inevitable that you need more public servants. I wasn't trying to revisit old arguments (I'm sure you do know better than the OECD :rolleyes: ), just pointing out that increases in the two sectors aren't necessarily the bad thing that it's being painted now by the usual suspects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr Damo
It's going to get larger now, 2000 new teachers for September 2010. Obvioulsy wholely supported. Could probably double that also. If only we had built a school instead of the Spire! My issue is where the numbers are employed Macy and are they adding value or just clocking up pensions. I'm working two weeks a month in the UK now, a redeployment of my employeers resources. What's in it for me? A job and the 20% paycut has been given back to me.Quote:
If you have a growing public, who require public services, it's inevitable that you need more public servants. I wasn't trying to revisit old arguments (I'm sure you do know better than the OECD :rolleyes: ), just pointing out that increases in the two sectors aren't necessarily the bad thing that it's being painted now by the usual suspects.
Incidently they all hail Lenihan over there. (Not saying it's good or bad though I am on the record of being a supporter of his)
No, I barely even read the Herald. "Stormed the dail" was the phrase I heard on the radio on the way from Dublin city centre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy