Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

09/05/2007, 2:30 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

not having a dig here but the IL* may be on a par with League 2 but I would put the eL at closer to lower half of the chamionship (tier 2).

*yes, yes i know linfield are in the setanta final but sure joe gamble said that they molested football against ye so thats good enough for me ;)

The IL would sit amongst the Conferance and non-leagues.

Linfield would sit amongst the LOI teams in League 2.

We are no where near Championship material. Maybe we can make two teams out of all the teams on this island that would play in the Championship and even then I think it would be a struggle. League 2 at best for this island.
09/05/2007, 2:31 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I'm sure games like Man U v Watford and Reading really set the Old Trafford fan's hearts racing as part of the elusive 'matchday experience'.

The foundations have only just stopped rocking, I understand...

:D

When I last went the sell out attendance was around 48000 and there was a terrific atmosphere. We where playing Sheffield Wednesday.

I would have imagined 76000 would have been near twice as good. But then football is more commercialised now than then.
09/05/2007, 2:33 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

My favourite bit of the match day experience on my trips to Goodison is a curry chip and a cheese and onion pie up county road followed by a pint in the black horse!

You see - that's my point ! Your favourite part of the whole 'matchday experience' has catually got fcuk all to do with the club ! Arguably fcuk all to do with football even !

So what is there in the average elusive English "matchday experience" that you can't get at a decent ground and game over here ? Answer = nought. This whole 'matchday experience' notion is just a lazy cliche that people trot out without having a clue what they actually mean by it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Forgot to add that I've brought a few Premiership regulars who live in England to EL games and they thought the atmosphere p1ssed all over the premiership "match day experience

I'd have to concur as well. I've yet to take someone not involved in Irish football to a City match who doesn't become soem sort of a fan. Have fellas from London, Belfast, Edinburgh, Orkney and Drogheda following us now. :o)

Those who stand amongst us get the bug.....
09/05/2007, 2:34 PM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

You see - that's my point ! Your favourite part of the whole 'matchday experience' has catually got fcuk all to do with the club ! Arguably fcuk all to do with football even !

That was my point too!
09/05/2007, 2:37 PM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

The IL would sit amongst the Conferance and non-leagues.

Linfield would sit amongst the LOI teams in League 2.

We are no where near Championship material. Maybe we can make two teams out of all the teams on this island that would play in the Championship and even then I think it would be a struggle. League 2 at best for this island.

the likes of southend, luton, qpr, barnsley and hull may, in your opinion, seem like giants to the club teams on this island but imo sides like derry, cork, rovers, drogheda and st pats would have absolutely nothing to fear from these teams and in fact be on a par with them. obviously the upper half of the championship would be a higher standard but the lower half (championship) and upper end of league 1 (at the very lowest) represent our peers accross the water.
09/05/2007, 2:37 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

What league do they predominantly follow? Italy?

Or the EPL. Games are on national TV at 3 in the afternoon. I think they barstool more than anything. I don't think they're even bothered to head over the border. When Sebastjan Cimerotic, one of their top players at the time playing for Lecce in Serie B, was playing in Trieste a load people headed over to watch him.

I understand a lot of Serbs and Croats also barstool. Their clubs grounds are always majority empty like our own on TV. Red Star Belgrade's Marakana looks ridiculous when they're playing a non-European/non-derby tie, a bit like the away stand in Windsor Pk. for Setanta Cup games.
09/05/2007, 2:46 PM
Erstwhile B�z

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Read the rest

Interesting theory (failed player = petrified manager) from Valdano. No doubt the quotes are rehashed from interviews he gave to the Spanish press years ago slating Ben�tez's Valencia team ...
09/05/2007, 3:10 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

the likes of southend, luton, qpr, barnsley and hull may, in your opinion, seem like giants to the club teams on this island but imo sides like derry, cork, rovers, drogheda and st pats would have absolutely nothing to fear from these teams and in fact be on a par with them. obviously the upper half of the championship would be a higher standard but the lower half (championship) and upper end of league 1 (at the very lowest) represent our peers accross the water.

Spot on. Billy there is trying to bring us down to IL level. Any premier team here would wipe the floor with League 2 ffs. Lower championship is about right.

KOH
09/05/2007, 3:24 PM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

When I last went the sell out attendance was around 48000 and there was a terrific atmosphere. We where playing Sheffield Wednesday.

I would have imagined 76000 would have been near twice as good. But then football is more commercialised now than then.

so by that token would an irish domestic game with an attendance of 4,000 have about one twelfth the atmosphere???? :confused:
the fact is that the bigger the stadium the more likely it is to have a 'diluted' atmosphere. smaller compact grounds are much better for an atmosphere. i have been to old trafford in the early 90's and again quite recently and i have to say when it was smaller (albeit 45 or 50 thousand capacity) it was a far better place from an atmosphere standpoint.

from talking to regular attending man utd fans they reckon that the atmosphere in old trafford has been pure sh1te for a good few years (although it has been relatively better this season due to winning back the premiership and a good champions league run). but look at any man utd home game and the stadium begins to clear with 10 mins to go and is nearly half empty at the final whistle. mostly because the plastic supporters just couldn't abide cueing on the way out!!!!!

PS - was that game you were at (v sheff wed) the one when man utd practically secured their first top flight championship after 27 odd years with 2 late, late steve bruce (?) goals???? if so i am sure it was a cracking atmosphere but more due to the game than anything else!
09/05/2007, 3:26 PM
gustavo

Quote:

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

so by that token would an irish domestic game with an attendance of 4,000 have about one twelfth the atmosphere???? :confused:
the fact is that the bigger the stadium the more likely it is to have a 'diluted' atmosphere. smaller compact grounds are much better for an atmosphere. i have been to old trafford in the early 90's and again quite recently and i have to say when it was smaller (albeit 45 or 50 thousand capacity) it was a far better place from an atmosphere standpoint.

from talking to regular attending man utd fans they reckon that the atmosphere in old trafford has been pure sh1te for a good few years (although it has been relatively better this season due to winning back the premiership and a good champions league run). but look at any man utd home game and the stadium begins to clear with 10 mins to go and is nearly half empty at the final whistle. mostly because the plastic supporters just couldn't abide cueing on the way out!!!!!

PS - was that game you were at (v sheff wed) the one when man utd practically secured their first top flight championship after 27 odd years with 2 late, late steve bruce (?) goals???? if so i a sure it was a cracking atmosphere but more due to the game than anything else!

So he really was there :)
09/05/2007, 3:30 PM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by gustavo

So he really was there :)

he must have just posted it so i would fall into his trap..... damn... caught again :mad: :D
09/05/2007, 6:02 PM
Torn-Ado

Quote:

Originally Posted by d f x-

So it's not 'basically because it's dire' then...

Yes it is. Many Swedes I have talked to said that their league is ****e. There was a time when team like IFK Gothenburg won European trophies but now the league doesn't even supply the international side with players.

No need to get offended at my statement.
09/05/2007, 8:06 PM
Ceirtlis

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Spot on. Billy there is trying to bring us down to IL level. Any premier team here would wipe the floor with League 2 ffs. Lower championship is about right.

KOH

What is your basis for this assumption.
09/05/2007, 9:36 PM
stampp

This thread seems eternal! One thing I pick up several times is a resentment of those who 'pick' an English team to support rather than an EL team. But that is surely to rail against basic human nature and a free market. The Premier League is a major league, well marketed by Sky and others, the grounds are generally very good, the players of a high calibre because of the cash sloshing around...etc. etc. It's not surprising that some people from, say, Dublin choose to support Sunderland, any more than people from Surrey or Gothenburg may choose to support Man Utd. It's an open market, and travel is relatively easy. If they then change allegiance again later, well that's up to them too. Sunderland Football Club will not suddenly collapse if the (welcome) visitors from Ireland head off somewhere else in future - there are enough local fans to generate big crowds. It's their money to spend where they please, so it will simply be a case of 'thanks and good luck'. It's just human nature.
09/05/2007, 9:45 PM
Soper

Human Nature blows
09/05/2007, 9:56 PM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by stampp

It's just human nature.

So what species are we?

:confused:
10/05/2007, 12:31 AM
kingdom hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

This whole 'matchday experience' notion is just a lazy cliche that people trot out without having a clue what they actually mean by it.

In my view the main 'match day experience' would relate to the buzz in the environs of the stadium in the hours preceding the game. I've only been to eL games in Belfield, which at the best of times can be reminiscent of Moscow suburbs in the 70s, so I'll admit to being largely ignorant of the general buzz that may accompany the build up to a football match here. However having been to plenty of GAA matches over the years the likes of Killarney, Thurles and north of O'Connell Bridge in Dublin provide fantastic examples of an ebullient 'match day experience' before one gets to the ground. Its very much a big day out for tens of thousands of people. I would have thought the Premiership might be much the same, but obviously not? I appreciate you can only drink outside one pub and all that but I would have thought the buzz generated by tens of thousands versus the buzz generated by thousands would be different and would kinda take over the place a bit more.
10/05/2007, 7:06 AM
Billy Lord

Do team coaches get stoned in Sunderland by people who aren't fans and weren't at the game? Betcha don't get that buzz in the pub.
10/05/2007, 8:02 AM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

In my view the main 'match day experience' would relate to the buzz in the environs of the stadium in the hours preceding the game...I appreciate you can only drink outside one pub and all that but I would have thought the buzz generated by tens of thousands versus the buzz generated by thousands would be different and would kinda take over the place a bit more.

Numbers doesn't necessarily translate into buzz.
10/05/2007, 9:48 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by stampp

This thread seems eternal! One thing I pick up several times is a resentment of those who 'pick' an English team to support rather than an EL team. But that is surely to rail against basic human nature and a free market. The Premier League is a major league, well marketed by Sky and others, the grounds are generally very good, the players of a high calibre because of the cash sloshing around...etc. etc. It's not surprising that some people from, say, Dublin choose to support Sunderland, any more than people from Surrey or Gothenburg may choose to support Man Utd. It's an open market, and travel is relatively easy. If they then change allegiance again later, well that's up to them too. Sunderland Football Club will not suddenly collapse if the (welcome) visitors from Ireland head off somewhere else in future - there are enough local fans to generate big crowds. It's their money to spend where they please, so it will simply be a case of 'thanks and good luck'. It's just human nature.

But it's not human nature, and 2 facts prove that.

Firstly - it may be human nature to gravitate towards a big football club. But it is most certainly not human nature to do so to a club inn a foreign country, or to be disdainful of your home teams when doing so. Only really in Ireland amongst Europeans does this happen to such an extent. So it's not human nature, it's the Irish psyche.

Secondly - if human nature enforces the principle of selecting teams on the basis of their skill, ability and glamour, then why does this not also hold for international teams ? Becasue whilst the Irish are happy to ignore the type of pull that local, or even just indigenous, club teams have for pretty much the rest of Europe, they do the complete opposite for international teams.

So what you are claiming is 'human nature' is clearly not so. Rather - it's largely an Irish condition (and particularly in the extent to which it happens).

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page