The Kevin Nolan saga

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Originally Posted by TerryPhelan

if Stan's pursuit of Nolan is successful and he helps us qualify for Euro 2008 and World Cup 2010, I don't see why any right-thinking Irish football fan should feel disgruntled.

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They have a right to be disgruntled if Irish football and not the national team, suffer as a result of more and more resources being spent on the national team. As long as the FAI have the option of begging players (and make no mistake this is what it is) to play for ireland, they won't be forced to deal with the seriousness of the ****hole that is Irish football today. If they sorted out the grass roots, they'd have ample players of international quality. Importing Nolan covers over the cracks and gives the FAi the option of saying "Of course Irish football's great, sure aren't we in the Euro finals!"

And I'll repeat myself again here; I have NO problem wahtsoever with 2g players who consider themselves Irish playing for their country.

He is a quality player and would improve us no end but he's not exactly chomping at the bit to wear the green jersey. He is obviously waiting for the new England manager to name his 1st squad against Greece.......

can Stan wait that long? Surely he'd want him in the squad to face Holland in our warm up game.

mercenary

it cheapens the jersey his carry on

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

strong words, but one things for certain, i definately dont want this guy representing me, ever. its just not right.

each time the Nolan subject crops up on here, the strength of feeling in the anti-Nolan camp strikes me, whereas the pro-Nolan lobby seem to just not get it, they see it as a club signing almost, and totally miss the point in the process.

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Mattie Holland was the same, bet you weren't complaining when he smashed one past Cameroon in Japan? Ditto for Clinton Morrison. Ray Houghton is another, a few weeks ago he came out and said he considers himself Scottish. So why did he play for Ireland? Again, did we turn our backs to the game/tv when he scored against England and Italy? Did we fcuk! Some of you are very opinionated on this, but it has to be said, ye also have very very short, and selective, memories! Nolan is no different to the afore mentioned players. Being from Liverpool he probably has more Irishness about him than the players mentioned above had. And i'm pretty sure if he does declare that he'll put in as much effort and contribute as much as Houghton et al did.

The reason i'm willing to accept him is because it has been like this as long as I've been supporting Ireland and going to games in the early Charlton years. We've always had these kind of players, and it's done us more good than bad. I'm not going to pretend that we haven't in the past. Nor am I delusional and going to start romanticising about an all Irish team and only having 2G plyers with extra-strength Irish links. It's all a load of bull. If Nolan decides he wants to play for us, that's good enough for me. He could be another Townsend, and whats wrong with that? All I care about is being at Euro 2008.

Another thing - almost every second national side now has 2G players or players of other nationalities declaring. Some obvious ones are Alex - Japan, Deco - Portugal, Hargreaves - England, Scotland have an ass load of them, Klose/Podolski/Kuranyi - Germany, Viera and about 10 others - France, Senna - Spain etc etc etc. Again, Nolan is no worse than any of these examples especially Deco, Alex, Hargreaves and Senna....

That might well be true but it still irks me that we are going cap in to him whilst he weighs up his options .Of course once a player joins up you are going to support them as its counter productive to do otherwise.

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Originally Posted by gustavo

That might well be true but it still irks me that we are going hand in cap to him whilst he weighs up his options .Of course once a player joins up you are going to support them as its counter productive to do otherwise.

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Have to agree with you there. I just can’t get myself to accept this doughnut into the Irish setup. It really annoys me that people are willing to wait to see if he will be picked for the three lions before he make his decision.Fcuk that for a game of soldiers, I would rather we won nothing than have to depend on a clown like this for success.

what are Nolan's Irish roots? Grandparents?

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Mattie Holland was the same, bet you weren't complaining when he smashed one past Cameroon in Japan? Ditto for Clinton Morrison. Ray Houghton is another, a few weeks ago he came out and said he considers himself Scottish. So why did he play for Ireland? Again, did we turn our backs to the game/tv when he scored against England and Italy? Did we fcuk! Some of you are very opinionated on this, but it has to be said, ye also have very very short, and selective, memories!

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So just because we don't think aperson should be playing for our country we're not entitled to celebrate our team scoring a goal? HOw does that work? Would you prefer I booed him everytime he touched the ball? Doesn't mean he deserves to be there

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Nolan is no different to the afore mentioned players. Being from Liverpool he probably has more Irishness about him than the players mentioned above had. And i'm pretty sure if he does declare that he'll put in as much effort and contribute as much as Houghton et al did.

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Thats total ********. There's pockets of "Irishness" in parts of glasgow and maybe parts of London/Luton but do you know what estate this lad is from? Did he go to the local Irish youth centre. Stop making up stuff to justify it to yourself.

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All I care about is being at Euro 2008.

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Thats the main problem with Irish football. I'd prefer to see all levels of Irish football flourish. See my earlier post why this kind of thing stops it

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almost every second national side now has 2G players or players of other nationalities declaring. Some obvious ones are Alex - Japan, Deco - Portugal, Hargreaves - England, Scotland have an ass load of them, Klose/Podolski/Kuranyi - Germany, Viera and about 10 others - France, Senna - Spain etc etc etc. Again, Nolan is no worse than any of these examples especially Deco, Alex, Hargreaves and Senna....

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Nolan is 100 times worse than those mentioned. Deco, Alex, the Germans and all the French lads all gained citizenship through residence, meaning they have contributed to the country they represent. In an interview with Deco in 4-4-2 last year, he said that he saw playing for Portugal as a duty after all the country had given him. Has nolan even been to Ireland? The odd holiday here at most. Does he see it as a duty, does he ****. I'll repeat again, this is a club side, this is a team that is supposed to represent our country. As long as the FAI beg players who have no allegiance to the country to play for us, Irish football will continue to be in as bad a state as we're in now.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Nolan is 100 times worse than those mentioned. Deco, Alex, the Germans and all the French lads all gained citizenship through residence, meaning they have contributed to the country they represent. In an interview with Deco in 4-4-2 last year, he said that he saw playing for Portugal as a duty after all the country had given him. Has nolan even been to Ireland? The odd holiday here at most. Does he see it as a duty, does he ****. I'll repeat again, this is a club side, this is a team that is supposed to represent our country. As long as the FAI beg players who have no allegiance to the country to play for us, Irish football will continue to be in as bad a state as we're in now.

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Actually he has been here. Was part of Brian Kerr's youth team set up who were due to play big game in Dalymount. However on the eve of the game he said he didn't want to play and went home. So he has been messing around for about 7 or 8 years now.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Mattie Holland was the same, bet you weren't complaining when he smashed one past Cameroon in Japan? Ditto for Clinton Morrison. Ray Houghton is another, a few weeks ago he came out and said he considers himself Scottish. So why did he play for Ireland? Again, did we turn our backs to the game/tv when he scored against England and Italy? Did we fcuk! Some of you are very opinionated on this, but it has to be said, ye also have very very short, and selective, memories! Nolan is no different to the afore mentioned players. Being from Liverpool he probably has more Irishness about him than the players mentioned above had. And i'm pretty sure if he does declare that he'll put in as much effort and contribute as much as Houghton et al did.

The reason i'm willing to accept him is because it has been like this as long as I've been supporting Ireland and going to games in the early Charlton years. We've always had these kind of players, and it's done us more good than bad. I'm not going to pretend that we haven't in the past. Nor am I delusional and going to start romanticising about an all Irish team and only having 2G plyers with extra-strength Irish links. It's all a load of bull. If Nolan decides he wants to play for us, that's good enough for me. He could be another Townsend, and whats wrong with that? All I care about is being at Euro 2008.

Another thing - almost every second national side now has 2G players or players of other nationalities declaring. Some obvious ones are Alex - Japan, Deco - Portugal, Hargreaves - England, Scotland have an ass load of them, Klose/Podolski/Kuranyi - Germany, Viera and about 10 others - France, Senna - Spain etc etc etc. Again, Nolan is no worse than any of these examples especially Deco, Alex, Hargreaves and Senna....

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just because it went on before doesnt mean its ok to continue capping guys like this, irish football needs to get its house in order and stop feeding of scraps of others to paper over the cracks.and your assertion that being from liverpool will have given him some sort of ''irishness'' is absolute rubbish.

he qualifies on paper, but he has not a scrap of feeling irish in any way shape or form about him, and has made no secret of this. so how then can you feel he can represent you? how can you as an irishman, feel equally represented by a guy like this, as you would by a Kilbane or a Kavanagh? its not possible, and he shouldnt be there.


and the examples you give of other nations players doesnt stand up either, as those players, as dodge has said, actually contributed something to their respective adopted countries, and they wanted and sought out the oppertunity to play for those nations, Nolan has not, and even at this late stage still uses his ''irishness'' purely to ratchet up pressure on england to play him. nonsense, and we shouldnt stand for it and as a nation, leave ourselves open to having the honour of playing for us devalued and mocked by career internationals like Nolan.

dont get me wrong, he would have been welcome, more than welcome, but seeing him in green now after he has placed so little value on it, would leave a sour taste.

anyway, this has been done to death 10 times over on him at this stage on here.

;sorry if this has been mentioned before, but apparently he also qualifies for Holland, the guy is all over the place....


Bolton star Kevin Nolan has revealed that he qualifies to play for Holland and is giving close consideration to his international future.

Nolan who has been touted by Stephen Staunton to play for Ireland could also come into the reckoning for England as Mc Claren imposes his stamp on the English side.

The midfielder is mulling over his options, as he could also turn out for Republic of Ireland and the Dutch.

"It's not only Ireland I have to think about," he told Wanderers TV. "My great-grandfather was Dutch, people don't know that.
"It was funny how it came up. I was at a soccer school in Spain in the summer, doing a few things for the kids. In a question and answer session, my little cousin asked me why I was always being asked about playing for Ireland and had never been asked about playing for Holland, because he's got a bit of Dutch in him.

"It just made me laugh, because everybody just talks about Ireland."

Looking to the future, Nolan added: "Obviously this is something I have to sit down and think about in the near future.

"It might be the next step. Not being in Europe with Bolton this season, it could be one of those things where I could step into the international scene with Ireland, if Steve Staunton did want me and if I got picked.

"It's something I have to discuss in the next few months but I've not thought about it because it's so far away."

yeah, I'm pretty sure most people don't know where you're great grandfather was from.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

those players, as dodge has said, actually contributed something to their respective adopted countries, and they wanted and sought out the oppertunity to play for those nations, Nolan has not, and even at this late stage still uses his ''irishness'' purely to ratchet up pressure on england to play him. nonsense, and we shouldnt stand for it and as a nation, leave ourselves open to having the honour of playing for us devalued and mocked by career internationals like Nolan.

dont get me wrong, he would have been welcome, more than welcome, but seeing him in green now after he has placed so little value on it, would leave a sour taste.

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Well said CTP. I second all of the above.

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Originally Posted by SaucyJack

apparently he also qualifies for Holland, the guy is all over the place....

Bolton star Kevin Nolan has revealed that he qualifies to play for Holland and is giving close consideration to his international future.

"It's not only Ireland I have to think about," he told Wanderers TV. "My great-grandfather was Dutch, people don't know that.

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Kev "van Nolan" GTF. :rolleyes:

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****ing thick isn't even qualified for Holland.

Considering that the guy is currently ineligible to play for us I can't believe how many posts this gets, not only on this thread but on others also.

Before anyone points it out I am fully aware of the irony of me contributing to this thread.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

As long as the FAI beg players who have no allegiance to the country to play for us, Irish football will continue to be in as bad a state as we're in now.

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Who said the FAI are begging him? The last time Staunton spoke to Nolan was during the premiership season, as Nolan said himself when Staunton was also watching Joey O'Brien. Thats months ago. How does a conversation with Staunton qualify as the FAI 'begging'? :rolleyes: For a man who likes to correct other posters a lot, you should look at some of the over-exaggerated stuff you're typing yourself ;) Brian Kerr made no effort for Nolan during the amnesty, mainly because of the incident that drummerboy referred to above. So there was no 'begging' then either.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

just because it went on before doesnt mean its ok to continue capping guys like this, irish football needs to get its house in order and stop feeding of scraps of others to paper over the cracks.

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Why have we suddenly become a nation over flowing with footballing talent? Getting our house in order - Isn't that what the National Technical Development Plan is all about? The club Licensing, new FAI regulations? About creating a structure from grassroots to our league clubs, and developing better players? It's going to take about ten years at least before you see anything come out of this project, but the point is Irish football has set the ball rolling. Kevin Nolan declaring for us will have no impact on any of this....

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

he qualifies on paper, but he has not a scrap of feeling irish in any way shape or form about him, and has made no secret of this.

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How do you know he has not a scrap of Irishness about him? Do you know Kevin and his family personally? You're just speculating, basically. I remember Clinton Morrison winding Michael Owen up for Palace against Liverpool and around the same time talking/dreaming about playing for England. He finally declared for us when it wasn't going to happen. Clinton has done fine for us since, can't fault his effort. Nolan is doing exactly the same now, so what's the difference?

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

and the examples you give of other nations players doesnt stand up either, as those players, as dodge has said, actually contributed something to their respective adopted countries, and they wanted and sought out the oppertunity to play for those nations.

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Yeah thats great when all those respective countries have proper professional leagues and those players are earning their living there as a result. We don't have that. We have a shambles of a league, run by cowboys, our grounds are a joke and so are most of the clubs. The standard is bottom tier of European club football and the wages are crap. What do you expect, the likes of Nolan to give up the premiership and come over here for 5 years to play bog standard football, just so they can justify/qualify playing for Ireland and please people like you?! My comparison to those other players does stand up because you have Brazilians playing for Japan, Portugal and Spain who are in no way Japenese, Portugese or Spanish. You have Hargreaves who has spent all his life in Canada and Germany playing for England. How in gods name has he contributed to his country? It is a valid arguement because people on here keep on banging on about Nolans 'Englishness/lack of Irishness'. Fair enough the Polish Germans grew up in Germany, as did the African French in France.

Well, somewhere between the FAI and Nolan we - Ireland fans - are being sold short. Are you saying 4TTF (great handle btw) that you're not at all affronted by this? :confused:

:ball: PP

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

blah blah blah.

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houghton et al were asked, thought about it for 30 seconds, said yes.

nolan refused to show up for a youth international 8 years ago and is clearly lining us up as plan b if engerland doesnt work out. presumably for contract talks/transfer time.

when you have figured it out.....

its ole ole mugs like you that let him use our national side as leverage. if he knew he would be lashed out of it by the green army for this sort of carry on, he would **** or get off the pot. its demeaning to the jersey, and worse that the FAI and some fans think its acceptible. name me one other set of fans that would take a player like him or morrison on board after such public hesitancy?

the diaspora argument is irrelevent here.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

text of last post

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jaysus, this is like talkin to a fuuckin wall........


in light of the development plan not bearing instant fruit, you seem to maintain if we cant be choosers then we must be beggars......yeah? with this attitude you and your ilk continue to let ireland down, accept 2nd prize and thats all you'll ever get, if you're happy with that then off you go, but there seems plenty on here who arent, and rightly so.


and as with Morrisson, as ive said previously, just because it went on before doesnt mean its ok to continue doing it, if you cant process the information in others poeples posts, and understand it then it might be wise to stop trying to pick peoples posts apart.

and as for your assumed need for me to know Nolans family personally in order to comment on this, what a load of shiiite, you dont need to know him to see whats going on here, read this
http://www.kickinmagazine.ie/kevinnolan31102000.htm

and anyone with even a scrap of affinity for ireland would not have treated this matter with the casual disdain/bargaining chip attitude this guy has.

and as for Deco and co, i believe i said they either contributed to their chosen nations OR demonstrated the will to play for them,Nolan has done neither,......you missed that bit too.
and somehow you seem to think by this i mean, he should play LOI for 5 yrs to gain citizenship!!:rolleyes:


like i say...talking to the wall

...threads merged just to show the history to this particular thorny question.

Thanks CTP for the suggestion of a poll - duly added. Vote away people - after all, this board at least is a democracy (well, as long as dahamsta says so)... :D

:ball: PP

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

blah blah blah

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Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

blah blah blah

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Could the two of you be so kind as to post a link to the post where I said 'blah blah blah'.....

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

in light of the development plan not bearing instant fruit, you seem to maintain if we cant be choosers then we must be beggars......yeah? with this attitude you and your ilk continue to let ireland down, accept 2nd prize and thats all you'll ever get, if you're happy with that then off you go, but there seems plenty on here who arent, and rightly so.

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What exactly are you trying to say? Accept 2nd prize? Would that be failure to even qualify, because we've won that prize a lot in recent years. Nolan could help us qualify for Euro 2008 - how is that accepting 2nd prize? Long-term the Technical Development Plan will hopefully ensure we don't have to accept the likes of Nolan in say 10 - 15 yrs time. Get it? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

its ole ole mugs like you that let him use our national side as leverage. if he knew he would be lashed out of it by the green army for this sort of carry on, he would **** or get off the pot

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Roverstillidie - I ain't no Ole Ole mug (I suppose that's the Rovers coming out in you). Nolan is welcome to play for us if he comes out and says he wants to play, just like all the rest were welcome. In an ideal world I'd love if we were able to tell undecided players like Nolan to fcuk off and then go on to qualify with two fingers still raised in his direction. But we can't cos we don't have the players. We don't qualify for finals. I've been going to LR regularly since 1989. I go to away games. I spend a lot of money, and thus far, I have not had the privelage of being at a championship finals because I was either too young or couldn't afford it when the chances last came around. If Kevin Nolan can come in and put in performances and score goals to get us to Euro 2008, quite frankly I couldn't give a sh!t if two years earlier he wanted to play for England. Is that black and white enough for you?