Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

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10/10/2012, 1:37 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No, Cunningham has been doing very well for Bristol City, but he has fallen off the radar since he has left City, that's what I'm insinuating.

The point is, back to the age old question of Trap and looking at players, he makes assumptions, based on what he hears and the stature of the club that a player is at rather than knowing anything about the player himself.

It may be true that he first called up Cunningham as part of a squad for a friendly, solely based on favourable opinions passed on to him by the Man City manager. After that, I'd assume Trap made up his own opinion about Cunningham and played him thrice. I don't see that as being an issue.
I do wonder are there parts of Trap's memory cells that just naturally deteriorate with age - to having a complete blank out re players like Lawrence or has he taken a definitive move to leave the player out totally, based on 'no longer a squad asset' or possible attitude situation which arose.
I very much doubt that a favored player like Cunningham, once established in the Bristol City team, would be ignored on a whim.
10/10/2012, 1:57 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No, Cunningham has been doing very well for Bristol City, but he has fallen off the radar since he has left City, that's what I'm insinuating.

The point is, back to the age old question of Trap and looking at players, he makes assumptions, based on what he hears and the stature of the club that a player is at rather than knowing anything about the player himself.

He only left City in July, so missing three games, when he was captaining the U21s, counts as "fallen off the radar"?
10/10/2012, 2:03 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Crisis? What crisis?

Whenever we were short or defender two. A (mini) crisis.
10/10/2012, 2:29 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Whenever we were short or defender two. A (mini) crisis.

Maybe you missed the humour

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/...hat+Crisis.jpg
10/10/2012, 2:35 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Maybe you missed the humour

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/...hat+Crisis.jpg

Oh yeah that was way over my head. I do love 'Goodbye Stranger' though. I'm kinda hoping that reclaims my flimsy rep.
10/10/2012, 3:48 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatJR

And how do you know he is not keeping tabs on Cunningham? Unless you've watched Bristol City regularly what is your basis for the high praise of Cunningham. Has he done enough to oust an experienced Ward or EPL level Wilson? As for the stature of a club Trap couldn't care less, Paul Green (Derby\Unattched) is just one example. Trap like most managers knows the type of player he wants and the club has nothing to do with it.

How can he know the type of player if he isn't watching them or in most cases rules them out based on club and/or hasn't called them into the squad to get a proper look? Green is the exception not the rule.

Quote:

Plenty of players called up who don't fit that description. Like unglamorous Damien Delaney, who for a period was Trap's favourite player to call in during a LB crisis.

Sure Trap's player knowledge could be better, but it's never struck me he's picked people based on clubs - more he's picked people based on familiarity regardless of clubs.

Exactly, when times are desperate he pulls out someone like Damien Delaney, then sticks with them for whatever reason, because he knows the system/his selection policy is ill-informed and lazy/<insert pre-requisite here>, instead of calling up more deserving players.
10/10/2012, 3:53 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Exactly, when times are desperate he pulls out someone like Damien Delaney, then sticks with them for whatever reason, because he knows the system/his selection policy is ill-informed and lazy/<insert pre-requisite here>, instead of calling up more deserving players.

Yeah we all know Trap's selection policy is often baffling, contradictory and frustrating. That's why no one can draw hard and fast conclusions, such as 'Trap picks by club reputation because is player knowledge is poor'.

Gripe about his selection method by all means, but I don't think club rep is as big a factor as you suggested.
10/10/2012, 4:17 PM
Murfinator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

So the team is Westwood
Kelly JOS O'Dea Ward
Cox Andrews Fahey McCarthy McGeady
Keane

Definitely not the best team he could put out. Cox should not be starting let alone starting as a winger. Very poor last game and slowly trotting over to take a corner with his side a goal down should have seen him relegated behind Keogh. Agree with the 5 man midfield and understand why Fahey was picked ahead of Meyler. But it should be Coleman out wide right not Cox (or Walters). Agree with JOS and O'Dea starting as center backs. Wilson should have replaced Ward who gets pulled out of position way too easily. And Long should be starting ahead of Keane. Long is the form Irish striker and has the movement and speed to trouble the German defense. Keane has not played well against a half decent defense for a long time now. I see him playing every week in the MLS and he has really slowed down from when he was last playing for Villa in the Premiership.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325092944.html

He wants a dynamic 4-5-1 that can switch to an attacking 4-3-3 when required. Coleman can not play as an axillary striker. He seems to prefer Cox's defensive work to Walters and Long. I would say Cox's job will be to defend high up the pitch from Lahm to protect his fullback but we'll see.
10/10/2012, 5:07 PM
liamoo11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murfinator

He wants a dynamic 4-5-1 that can switch to an attacking 4-3-3 when required. Coleman can not play as an axillary striker. He seems to prefer Cox's defensive work to Walters and Long. I would say Cox's job will be to defend high up the pitch from Lahm to protect his fullback but we'll see.

Cox will have an easy job so on friday with mr lahm suspended!Personally I wood prob rather coleman seein as he wont be picked right full with long up top and try and be solid keep the ball and use the pace of our wide players and long
10/10/2012, 8:36 PM
Murfinator

Quote:

Originally Posted by liamoo11

Cox will have an easy job so on friday with mr lahm suspended!Personally I wood prob rather coleman seein as he wont be picked right full with long up top and try and be solid keep the ball and use the pace of our wide players and long

Boateng/Howedes then. If the score is 0-0 I don't believe you should be concerned about our attacking options. Defending and possession will be the key, only way we'll score is from a set piece. Coleman would be a poor option in any possession for the game in question. Long or Walters up front wouldn't make much sense with the twin towers Badstuber and Mertesacker, we'll have no joy from the air they'd mop up route ones all night long. Mertesacker in particular is clumsy with the ball at feet, Keane's the best of our strikers at exploiting that.

It's nowhere near as intimidating a defence without Hummels and Lahm though.
10/10/2012, 9:35 PM
the bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murfinator

Boateng/Howedes then. If the score is 0-0 I don't believe you should be concerned about our attacking options. Defending and possession will be the key, only way we'll score is from a set piece. Coleman would be a poor option in any possession for the game in question. Long or Walters up front wouldn't make much sense with the twin towers Badstuber and Mertesacker, we'll have no joy from the air they'd mop up route ones all night long. Mertesacker in particular is clumsy with the ball at feet, Keane's the best of our strikers at exploiting that.

It's nowhere near as intimidating a defence without Hummels and Lahm though.

Long is the best choice up top for me fast strong good in the air. Keane would be a lot easier to mark. Mertesacker is a bit of a donkey. We will miss St Ledger for attacking set pieces
10/10/2012, 11:33 PM
mark12345

Quote:

Originally Posted by the bear

Long is the best choice up top for me fast strong good in the air. Keane would be a lot easier to mark. Mertesacker is a bit of a donkey. We will miss St Ledger for attacking set pieces

All that aside. Anyone know what TV channel is showing the game in the USA?
10/10/2012, 11:36 PM
mark12345

Quote:

Originally Posted by the bear

Long is the best choice up top for me fast strong good in the air. Keane would be a lot easier to mark. Mertesacker is a bit of a donkey. We will miss St Ledger for attacking set pieces

Long is the only choice. Sorry to say it but Robbie doesn't have it as an attacker any longer, not at this level. And to put him in as a lone attacker is just a joke.
10/10/2012, 11:59 PM
NeverFeltBetter

I think Keane still has something to offer, but he's wasted as a lone target man for hoofball tactics.
11/10/2012, 12:37 AM
Crosby87

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

All that aside. Anyone know what TV channel is showing the game in the USA?

Mark were you the one claiming last time that GOL would show all the Ireland matches for this campaign in the US? ;)

Only problem is, as far as I can tell, it is not available in hi-def.

Edit: To any of my fellow working Irish here who could possibly avoid the match results, since they may have to, you know, stay at work later than 245, GOL is re airing it at 11 PM. I know, stupid. But I am just saying.
11/10/2012, 2:18 AM
strangeirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

All that aside. Anyone know what TV channel is showing the game in the USA?

GOL TV, coverage starts at 2.30pm Eastern Time.
11/10/2012, 7:25 AM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by p2011

If we are to start with a three-man midfield then why are we telling the opposition about it days in advance? Why not let the Germans persist in thinking they will be facing the usual dysfunctional long-ball 4-4-2 for a few days longer? Trap could easily say nothing, or say Fahey will be on the wing with Cox and Keane up front as a 4-4-2 and then spring a surprise when we kick off. Why play into the hands of this already strong opposition? (I wouldn't have either Cox or Keane in the starting 11, but that's beside the point.)

what does it matter when they find out? teams change formations all the time during matches. the germans will have a plan for 442, 433, 4231, a plan for them going down to 10 men, us going down to 10 men etc etc. It makes no difference really as they will just seemlessly adapt at whatever stage our secret tactics are thrown at them
11/10/2012, 7:35 AM
DannyInvincible

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

what does it matter when they find out? teams change formations all the time during matches. the germans will have a plan for 442, 433, 4231, a plan for them going down to 10 men, us going down to 10 men etc etc. It makes no difference really as they will just seemlessly adapt at whatever stage our secret tactics are thrown at them

It surely can't be of any help to us and can only be of assistance to them. Better they have to take a while to adapt than know our game-plan right from the outset, surely? What is the rationale behind making line-ups and game-plans public days in advance? Who does it serve to benefit, besides the opposition? And curious fans with a predisposition to moaning about it on forums, of course. :)
11/10/2012, 8:10 AM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

It surely can't be of any help to us and can only be of assistance to them.

It depends on individual interpretation. Trapattoni could easily argue (in Italian) that it is of help to us.
11/10/2012, 8:17 AM
p2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

what does it matter when they find out?

It might encourage them to pick big defenders who aren't great on the ground. Loads of reasons to spring a surprise.

And if the Germans will be able 'seamlessly adapt', then surely that's the sort of preparation we should have too.

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