Eligibility Rules, Okay

Billy Hutchinson made some daft, paranoid comments about the eligibility of northern-born Irish nationals at the motion debate inside Belfast City Hall last week. I wrote a bit on what he said here: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com...fa-corruption/

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In a bizarre and completely inaccurate “explanation” of “facts”, Hutchinson asserted that “the whole notion of whether you can play for Northern Ireland or whether you can play for the Republic goes back to the days of Sepp Blatter“. He then mentioned Blatter’s recent ban from all football-related activities, imposed upon him by FIFA’s Ethics Committee, along with the FBI’s investigation into alleged FIFA corruption, as if to imply a direct connection between the eligibility of northern-born Irish nationals to play for the Republic of Ireland and corruption at the governing body.

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There's a video of what he said there too.

A tardy Fifa have given Grealish the official go ahead to represent England.

The journalist writes,
'Grealish .............. appears a much less likely England international than was the case when he made his decision in September.
Despite Villa’s dreadful season, Grealish has found himself on the sidelines. He has not appeared in the Premier League for more than two months and his last appearance in any competition for Villa was the defeat by Manchester City on 30 January.'

And people say McGeady has no end product. This lad has taken it to the extreme.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfWuPzdWAAQhZUB.jpg

But we're "the beggars", supposedly...

(Edit: Oh, and hat-tip to Dodge for alerting me.)

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfWuPzdWAAQhZUB.jpg

But we're "the beggars", supposedly...

(Edit: Oh, and hat-tip to Dodge for alerting me.)

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Is that genuine?

Edit - I see it's for the women's teams.

That has to be a spoof?

Euro's?

I hope this is real, I hope they have actually gone and done this, it can't be can it ? :)
And I await the FAI version welcoming all creeds of Irishmen of any community or tradition aboard.

It was tweeted by an Anth Nolan who's bio describes him/her as: "Commerical Manager of women's footy website & magazine. Responsible for distribution and liasing with clubs. So get in touch."

Here's the tweet: https://twitter.com/SheKicksAnth/sta...71303407386624

All seems legit to me.

The Apostrophe Protection Society will surely take them to task.

Now now lads. As you know, I don't tend to go in for all that offensive stuff. Well except when you Freestaters get lairy.

I was talking to my cousin and his wife the other day, reminding that their son (currently playing in Norwich City's U-12 squad) is eligible for various other international teams through his granda...

Alfie Wylie (from the flyer) is a top lad. Invited the entire away support to dinner at a couple of recent women's internationals.

<MOD EDIT>
Personal insults (tongue in cheek or not) removed

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Invited the entire away support to dinner at a couple of recent women's internationals.

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Should that not be, 'he invited the entire away support, the couple at the recent women's internationals?'

Eight (including a couple) and three respectively for visits to up-country Belgium and Motherwell.

Coincidentally I've just seen another Icelander (your departing PM) struggling with basic arithmetic on the TV news ;)

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Invited the entire away support to dinner at a couple of recent women's internationals.

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He invited the away support to a couple of recent women's internationals for dinner?

I was thinking about this before, but is Herzegovina a similar situation to ours? Croats born there, playing for Croatia? I assume they are eligible in the same way as ROI players born in the North.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I was thinking about this before, but is Herzegovina a similar situation to ours? Croats born there, playing for Croatia? I assume they are eligible in the same way as ROI players born in the North.

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The difference is, ethnic Croats born in B&H are not automatically Croat citizens just by virtue of being born in B&H. They have to acquire it by satisfying criteria to establish their basic Croat ethnicity, according to their citizenship laws article 16
Therefore the criteria in Fifa article 7 apply for them, should they so desire.
And as you know, we Irish enter through the front door, via article 5.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I was thinking about this before, but is Herzegovina a similar situation to ours? Croats born there, playing for Croatia? I assume they are eligible in the same way as ROI players born in the North.

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From having had a look for an appropriate parallel a few years ago, I think a somewhat similar situation to our own is Turkey-Northern Cyprus. That's just from my own research. Turkey extends citizenship extra-territorially over the northern half of the island of Cyprus; a territory only it recognises as being under its jurisdiction. The rest of the world, or at least the UN, views the whole of Cyprus as a 'de jure' sovereign and independent state. I could do with double-checking, but, from memory, I don't think any other state in the world recognises Turkey's territorial claim or the extension of its citizenship law as legitimate. It's different from out situation in that sense; the UK formally endorsed the extra-territoriality of Irish citizenship law over the entire island via the GFA. In spite of global disapproval or non-recognition of Turkey's claim, however, Muzzy Izzet and Colin Kazim-Richards qualified to play for Turkey through their Northern Cypriot ancestry. FIFA may not acknowledge the legitimacy of Northern Cyprus, but they recognise Turkish citizenship as valid, so long as someone possesses it and fulfils the relevant eligibility criteria.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I don't think any other state in the world recognises Turkey's territorial claim or the extension of its citizenship law as legitimate

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Didn't one fairly large country (Bangladesh from memory) do so in the past?

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It's different from out situation in that sense; the UK formally endorsed the extra-territoriality of Irish citizenship law over the entire island via the GFA

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Strictly, is that endorsement any more than symbolic? I mean, you can offer citizenship to me, or whoever you fancy, regardless what I or the Brit government think. Like you have done for decades ;)

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In spite of global disapproval or non-recognition of Turkey's claim, however, Muzzy Izzet and Colin Kazim-Richards qualified to play for Turkey through their Northern Cypriot ancestry. FIFA may not acknowledge the legitimacy of Northern Cyprus, but they recognise Turkish citizenship as valid, so long as someone possesses it and fulfils the relevant eligibility criteria

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If the Cypriot problem isn't resolved, Kibris should be welcomed by FIFA/ UEFA. There could be a celebratory tournament involving NI, Norway and wannabe breakaway nordie regions of other countries (Catalunya, Vlanderen, Padania etc.) to welcome them.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Didn't one fairly large country (Bangladesh from memory) do so in the past?

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It seems Bangladesh and Pakistan may have done, although this is no longer the case. Some info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreig...orthern_Cyprus

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Turkey is the only country which recognises Northern Cyprus and has an embassy in North Nicosia. Northern Cyprus has an embassy in Ankara.

In 2005 the President of Gambia, Yahya Jammeh, said that Gambia was ready to recognize the independence of Northern Cyprus. The Cypriot government protested and Gambia did not recognize the TRNC.

In October 2011, Libya signed cooperation treaties with TRNC government.

...

In 1983 Bangladesh and Pakistan withdrew recognition after UNSC Resolution 541 and international pressure.

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Strictly, is that endorsement any more than symbolic? I mean, you can offer citizenship to me, or whoever you fancy, regardless what I or the Brit government think. Like you have done for decades ;)

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It is symbolic in the sense that Irish citizenship was available to northerners since 1956. Pre-GFA, it was officially a matter of diplomatic tension/dispute.

I hadn't noticed this before, makes interesting reading.
Have they missed anyone?
http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/green...yers-abroad-35

the FAI publish that most Monday's, they missed Jake Mulraney's goal in that article

There's some talk today that Adnan Januzaj would be keen to switch from Belgium to Kosovo if/when Kosovo is recognised by FIFA, despite already having represented Belgium competitively at senior level. Although I'm not aware of anything in the statutes to cover this situation, I understand (from the reports) that FIFA would permit him to make such a switch as the option of Kosovo wasn't available to him when he first committed to Belgium.

I think I recall we discussed some precedent examples of this before in this thread. Was having a quick look but couldn't find the exact discussion on it. Can anyone recall?

The lengthy enough discussion on Januzaj started here: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1713805

Cheers! It was this post of geysir's I was looking for:

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Originally Posted by geysir

Actually, it's just common sense, considering that only players from the tiny Serbian ethnic community inside Kosovo declare for Serbia, the rest declare for anybody but Serbia, but mostly Albania.

Kosovo stuff
Kosovo status
It is understood that once Kosovo is a full FIFA member, any eligible players will have a window of opportunity in which to switch allegiances from their current teams to Kosovo.

Montenegro stuff Montenegro wiki page
the chapter Current Squad
In international football, players can normally only play for one national team once they play in all or part of any match recognised as a full international by FIFA. However, an exception is made in cases where one or more newly-independent states are created out of a former state. Based on current FIFA rules, a player will be eligible to play for Montenegro, even if he had previously represented Serbia and Montenegro or any other country, if at least one of the following statements applies:^[9]

• He was born in Montenegro.
• At least one of his parents and/or at least one of his grandparents was born in Montenegro.
• He has lived in Montenegro continuously for any two-year period.

Due to mixed ancestries, it is likely that a high percentage of the players eligible to play for Montenegro will also remain eligible to play for Serbia, and vice versa. However, once they have played for either Serbia or Montenegro in any competitive fixture, they are no longer eligible to play for any other nation.

There is a linked reference to a FIFA pdf document on the status transfer of players, maybe there is something more in that document.
But I'm satisfied enough not to pursue it any further :)

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No problem. Januzaj remains an interesting case, notwithstanding his apparent decline from potentially world-class to one of several players left blighted by Van Gaal's tenure (that loan spell to Dortmund was a disaster). He certainly isn't going to be first teaming for Belgium any time soon, but I presume he'd be a shoe-in for Kosovo.

Andrei Kanchelskis (USSR) was a famous one that continued to play on for the succession team (Russia) rather than the newly created motherland team of Ukraine.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Cheers! It was this post of geysir's I was looking for:

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Thank you Danny, it's an honour to be quoted by a pro.
AFAIR, Charlie disagreed, but his argument was badly let down due it's heavy dependance on a Sepp Blatter quote.

That doesn't sound like me.

Probably your disagreement had much more to do with there being room for doubt and lack of clear precedents, but you also added in a quote from Sepp about the Kosovo eligible players.
But that's the bit I remember, a quote from Sepp and you gave the Sepp quote some credibility due to the reputation of the journalist or newspaper who did the interview, because possibly Sepp's believability factor was absent.
I thought it was humorous at the time, that's why I remember it, no other agenda involved.

As far as we were all concerned at the time, Herr Sepp was a paragon of virtue and perhaps the most intelligent and honest man in football.

It has finally come to pass, Kosovo have been admitted into Uefa, It was a close enough vote 28 -24, probably (long time opponent) Platini's absence from the scene helped matters along Kosovo's way.

This article, Kosovo's UEFA Dreams, puts a dampner on a mass exit of Kosovo eligible internationals currently attached to other national teams, "mass defections are unlikely".

That was a close vote, I imagine most from the balkans would have sided with Seriba, it would be interesting to see the breakdown.

As an Irishman, I think it would be difficult for us to vote for Kosovo either.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

As far as we were all concerned at the time, Herr Sepp was a paragon of virtue and perhaps the most intelligent and honest man in football.

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Everyone but me. Obviously : P

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I imagine most from the balkans would have sided with Serbia

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So the Balkans weren't Balkanised?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

So the Balkans weren't Balkanised?

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I'm sure if they were to become balkanised Paul would have predicted it well in advance.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

That was a close vote, I imagine most from the balkans would have sided with Seriba, it would be interesting to see the breakdown.

As an Irishman, I think it would be difficult for us to vote for Kosovo either.

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I don't know what your irish identity has to do with your difficulties in the matter.
I welcome the Uefa vote to admit Kosovo as a member.

The most significant decision was taken before the vote, that "recognition by a majority of European nations -- rather than UN membership -- is the basis for acceptance into UEFA".

In theory (fanciful) this could pave the way for a region like Catalonia to gain entry to Uefa and then Fifa would have a hard time playing the Spanish FA veto card.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

That was a close vote, I imagine most from the balkans would have sided with Seriba, it would be interesting to see the breakdown.

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How did you come to that conclusion? I would guess that they probably voted for Kosovo's admittance.

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As an Irishman, I think it would be difficult for us to vote for Kosovo either.

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Why would that be? I would have thought Ireland would be very pro-self determination.

The breakdown I would wager was something like:

These are the countries that recognise Kosovo:
1 Albania
2 Andorra
3 Austria
4 Belgium
5 Bulgaria
6 Croatia
7 Czech Republic
8 Denmark
9 Estonia
10 Finland
11 France
12 Germany
13 Hungary
14 Iceland
15 Ireland
16 Italy
17 Latvia
18 Liechtenstein
19 Lithuania
20 Luxembourg
21 Macedonia
22 Malta
23 Monaco
24 Montenegro
25 Netherlands
26 Norway
27 Poland
28 Portugal
29 San Marino
30 Slovenia
31 Sweden
32 Switzerland
33 Turkey
34 United Kingdom

Monaco are not UEFA members, the Faroes are not sovereign and the UK are 4 associations (5 if ya count Gibraltar so that would give us a likely scenario of these being the most likely voters):

1 Albania
2 Andorra
3 Austria
4 Belgium
5 Bulgaria
6 Croatia
7 Czech Republic
8 Denmark
9 England
10 Estonia
11 Faroe Islands
12 Finland
13 France
14 Germany
15 Gibraltar
16 Hungary
17 Iceland
18 Ireland
19 Irish FA
20 Italy
21 Latvia
22 Liechtenstein
23 Lithuania
24 Luxembourg
25 Macedonia
26 Malta
27 Montenegro
28 Netherlands
29 Norway
30 Poland
31 Portugal
32 San Marino
33 Scotland
34 Slovenia
35 Sweden
36 Switzerland
37 Turkey
38 Wales

with the following not recognising Kosovo Internationally and therefore most likely to have voted against them at UEFA:

1 Armenia
2 Azerbaijan
3 Belarus
4 Bosnia
5 Cyprus
6 Georgia
7 Greece
8 Israel
9 Kazakhstan
10 Romania
11 Russia
12 Serbia
13 Slovakia
14 Spain
15 Ukraine

So that leaves us 9 short of the 24 that voted against.

If I was to hazard a guess I would plump for:

Albania: have skin in the game and would lose a lot of players
Belgium: have skin in the game and could lose potential players. Also have their own federative and identity problems. Defo not in their interests.
Bulgaria: Russian influence in the FA
Estonia: Russian influence in the FA
Iceland: Russian influence in the FA
Irish FA: Cos they are a shower and not ones into self-determination sorta things
Latvia: Russian influence in the FA
Lithuania: Russian influence in the FA
Turkey: Sher why not. Appease Russia?

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Originally Posted by geysir

I don't know what your irish identity has to do with your difficulties in the matter.
I welcome the Uefa vote to admit Kosovo as a member.

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I don't know, in the same way that those might feel agrieved with the North of Ireland.

Kosovo down through the centuries was a serbian stronghold, populated with mostly ethnic serbs.

You could ask those who typically wouldn't like Serbs of other balkan nations, and they would even feel for the Serbs in this one. It feels a bit like Mayo cessating Irish citizenship/nationality and creating their own Independent state :D Although then again that might not be a bad thing.

@BS I would say you could add Croatia to the no list, Bulgaria and possibly Slovenia too.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I don't know, in the same way that those might feel agrieved with the North of Ireland.

Kosovo down through the centuries was a serbian stronghold, populated with mostly ethnic serbs.

You could ask those who typically wouldn't like Serbs of other balkan nations, and they would even feel for the Serbs in this one. It feels a bit like Mayo cessating Irish citizenship/nationality and creating their own Independent state :D Although then again that might not be a bad thing.

@BS I would say you could add Croatia to the no list, Bulgaria and possibly Slovenia too.

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There is no way in hell that Croatia would have voted against their admittance. No way at all. If Serbia are against something, Croatia are for it. Bulgaria are an obvious possibility. Slovenia like Croatia are not really in the business of being with Serbia on identity things.

There is no love lost between Croatia and Serbia, thats for sure. But many croats would actually see the kosovo thing, in the same way that they recognise much of Herzegovina as Croatian.