Stephen Kenny

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I also don't buy the excuse about the quality of the players. Whilst there are no world beaters (though Ferguson could become one) there are a number of decent Premiership quality players for selection together with some of the better Championship players. Outside the top 6 or 7 teams in Europe its become commonplace to see Championship players in the starting line ups. You would be expecting the next manager to get significantly better results with the same group of players, however due to the damage caused under Kenny's tenure it'll be a long time before we are back in the big time.

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I agree with this completely. The Championship is a very strong division these days and we are lucky to have so many players there. IMHO it's the most competitive second tier in Europe and one of the top 10 divisions overall.

Scotland qualified with 2 games to spare with a squad that looks very similar to ours on paper. There's no reason in the world why we can't do that*.

*Whatever about Stephen Kenny, we were **** upon from a great height with the draw for this last campaign.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

Scotland qualified with 2 games to spare with a squad that looks very similar to ours on paper. There's no reason in the world why we can't do that*.

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They have Robertson, Tierney, McTominay and McGinn; Ferguson is the only player we have in that range. That's a fair aul difference.

In other news, the backroom staff have left too (unsurprisingly). Andrews, O'Shea, Kiely et al.

They have more than us in midfield and at left back, but there's a lot of very well organised mediocrity in their squad.

If I was picking a joint Irish-Scottish XI I'd have 7 Irish and 4 Scots.

------------------- Bazunu --------------------
Coleman Collins Egan Robertson
--- Gilmour Cullen McTominney ---
McGinn -------------------------- Ogbene
------------------ Ferguson ------------------

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They have Robertson, Tierney, McTominay and McGinn; Ferguson is the only player we have in that range. That's a fair aul difference.

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They have, and slightly under that they have McGregor who is a big player for a successful Celtic era and Gilmour who Brighton handed over a few quid for and plays regularly for them EPL and in Europe. Picture a five a side with the two keepers and their midfield four McTominay /McGinn / Gilmour / McGregor Vs whatever four of ours you want to pick, it'd be a cull, a turkey shoot. Granted they aren't like that throughout the side but midfield dictates, just as when we had Keane & Co in there, we were decent. I think banging the look at Scotland drum actually undermines the argument trying to be made, which does have its merits, we aren't where we should be.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

They have more than us in midfield and at left back, but there's a lot of very well organised mediocrity in their squad.

If I was picking a joint Irish-Scottish XI I'd have 7 Irish and 4 Scots.

------------------- Bazunu --------------------
Coleman Collins Egan Robertson
--- Gilmour Cullen McTominney ---
McGinn -------------------------- Ogbene
------------------ Ferguson ------------------

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Cullen wouldn't get into any midfield involving Scottish players.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

They have more than us in midfield and at left back, but there's a lot of very well organised mediocrity in their squad.

If I was picking a joint Irish-Scottish XI I'd have 7 Irish and 4 Scots.

------------------- Bazunu --------------------
Coleman Collins Egan Robertson
--- Gilmour Cullen McTominney ---
McGinn -------------------------- Ogbene
------------------ Ferguson ------------------

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Kieran Tierney is playing for a La Liga side in the Champion League. There's no question but that he makes a combined team, even if playing slightly out of position.

The 4/5 players they have that are better than ours are the 4/5 decent players that every solid (but not great) international team needs, but that we don't have.

Only positions I'd be confident of us having on a combined team would be GK, RCB, CB, and ST. LCB, LWB and the four central midfielders I'd have from Scotland with it being a contest only at RWB between Coleman and Hickey.

Aaron Hickey is a regular Premier League right back aswell,we don’t have that either, even their back up Patterson plays more than anyone we have,Coleman’s best days are well behind him….

Yeah there's no way you don't have Hickey and Tierney in the combined team. We have no idea what shape Coleman will be in when he comes back and injuries aside, he's 35.

I'm taking Bazunu in goal,

Doherty at RB, 2 irish centre halves and Robertson at LB

3 scottish midfielder (McTominay, McGinn, Gilmour)

Ogbene on the wing, Ferguson in the centre. Might take Ben Doak as my last winger, even though he hasn't made his debut yet, it's either him or Mikey Johnston. You could probably fit Hickey in if you're going for 5 at the back but **** that, if I'm combining teams, I want a 4-3-3

Better full backs and midfield than us but their strength is concentrated to one area of the field. That’s something we identified in the home game against them – we closed space and were aggressive in stopping that core strength from playing (think we started the game with a heavy tackle on McTominay to set that aggressive tone). But Scotland did well to finish the EC qualification ahead of Norway imo – they don’t have the creative quality of Ødegaard or a striker within a mile of Haaland’s class. The quality of those two players alone should have been enough to qualify Norway so credit to Scotland. They have an overall competence throughout their team that is above us.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Better full backs and midfield than us but their strength is concentrated to one area of the field. That’s something we identified in the home game against them – we closed space and were aggressive in stopping that core strength from playing (think we started the game with a heavy tackle on McTominay to set that aggressive tone). But Scotland did well to finish the EC qualification ahead of Norway imo – they don’t have the creative quality of Ødegaard or a striker within a mile of Haaland’s class. The quality of those two players alone should have been enough to qualify Norway so credit to Scotland. They have an overall competence throughout their team that is above us.

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That's because Norway are essentially Wales pre 2018. Every club out there though thinks every young Norwegian player is Erling Haaland so sign them only to move them on quickly after when they realised they've been duped ( I mean, Ostigaard playing for Napoli and Nyland playing for Sevilla has to be some sort of **** take surely!).

As for Scotland. The issue for them which is why I think they will struggle to do anymore than get past a last 16 place is while they have some really good players in their side the actual spine of their team is actually not that great (I would actually take the Irish spine over there's any day). Their GK, defence and striking options are mediocre at best but their midfield is pretty good so I do think they are going to need to ride their luck at times and hope McGinn (despite McTominey's goals in qualifying I do think McGinn is easily Scotland's most important player) and have a big tournament. The best I can envision for Scotland is a tournament similar to Ireland in 2016 which is a last 16 finish.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

I'm taking Bazunu in goal,

Doherty at RB, 2 irish centre halves and Robertson at LB

3 scottish midfielder (McTominay, McGinn, Gilmour)

Ogbene on the wing, Ferguson in the centre. Might take Ben Doak as my last winger, even though he hasn't made his debut yet, it's either him or Mikey Johnston. You could probably fit Hickey in if you're going for 5 at the back but **** that, if I'm combining teams, I want a 4-3-3

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You're picking Doehrty at RB when Scotland have two players regularly starting at RB in the PL. Wouldn't have Doherty as a RB in the Irish best XI nevermind a combined team.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

( I mean, Ostigaard playing for Napoli and Nyland playing for Sevilla has to be some sort of **** take surely!).

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Not really if you accept Nyland was signed as a backup and acknowledge there is a quality gap between the top clubs in La Liga and the rest (and between first choice keeper and backup at most clubs). He is a safe bet signing for the role he has and maybe gets his game with Scotland? Sure, Østigård is not a quality player in his position as Ødegaard and Haaland are in theirs, but good enough to get his game for Scotland? Point is that on paper Norway can beef out their team to match Scotland and with the quality of Ødegaard and Haaland that should be decisive in determining results between the two. Didn’t work out that way though :-), so credit to Scotland.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Not really if you accept Nyland was signed as a backup and acknowledge there is a quality gap between the top clubs in La Liga and the rest (and between first choice keeper and backup at most clubs). He is a safe bet signing for the role he has and maybe gets his game with Scotland? Sure, Østigård is not a quality player in his position as Ødegaard and Haaland are in theirs, but good enough to get his game for Scotland? Point is that on paper Norway can beef out their team to match Scotland and with the quality of Ødegaard and Haaland that should be decisive in determining results between the two. Didn’t work out that way though :-), so credit to Scotland.

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He wasnt a regular starter in England since 2018/19 and couldnt even get ahead of Ireland's 3rd choice keeper when he was at Bournemouth and then he goes from that to playing for RB Leipzig & Sevilla...he can have these big name plus next to his name all he wants, its never going to suddenly make him a good GK and if anything shows just how desperate RB Leipzig and Sevilla really were at the time.

Possibly Ostigaard could get into the Scotland team but its probably a close call, Ostigard no matter what the club next to his name says is still a decent championship CB in my eyes who's found himself at Napoli by accident due to being young, cheap and having some Serie A experience from his time on loan with Genoa. Tbh the spine for Norway from back to front is quite imbalanced, the front part of the spine is probably as good as any spine in world football but the defensive side of it is not up to scratch at all.

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Originally Posted by JR89

You're picking Doehrty at RB when Scotland have two players regularly starting at RB in the PL. Wouldn't have Doherty as a RB in the Irish best XI nevermind a combined team.

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Ben Doak cant even get a Scotland call up so I very much doubt he makes an Irish/Scotland comined team.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Ben Doak cant even get a Scotland call up so I very much doubt he makes an Irish/Scotland comined team.

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And Johnston is only playing for us cause he couldn't get a Scotland call up.

doherty isnt related to a defender. madness to have him in any combined xi. he is brutal.

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Originally Posted by JR89

And Johnston is only playing for us cause he couldn't get a Scotland call up.

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Did he tell you that? If he cant back himself to get ahead of Brown, Shankland, Dyke etc maybe he is a player even we are questioning the selection of.

Think you are missing the point though, if he cant make the Scotland squad then I doubt he's making a combined Irish/Scottish team.

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Originally Posted by JR89

You're picking Doehrty at RB when Scotland have two players regularly starting at RB in the PL. Wouldn't have Doherty as a RB in the Irish best XI nevermind a combined team.

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Agree on this his conditioning is embarrassing during the week losing the ball in forward areas and showing zero desire to get back.