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A lot boils down to this turning heads 'Sunday Life Sport has been told that a new All-Ireland League backed by UEFA, the IFA and the FAI will bring in significantly more finance than the Lucid proposal' and actually showing clubs evidence of funding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Source
I'd rather a third party was involved. Anything the FAI do will be a shambles.
Lucid seemed nothing but a bluffer at best though. The extent of his research seemed to be "we'll make X amount of money because of course we will and it would be nice to," whatever about the merits of an All-Ireland league he's no loss. I always thought it was telling too that he was unwilling to get involved with the current setup and try to build from there.
Or invest any of his own money to get it off the ground
Does anybody know any place to read the Norn Irish perspective on the All Ireland league? From reading about it , I thought the football fans in the North would welcome it, but plenty of the hanger on's (the lads who support Rangers over Irish football and were rioting last night) would be hard against it..... but I have no clue really.
The Irish League Supporters Forum is a good place to start, there is a lengthy thread about the prospect of an AIL in the general section, and there's also a few threads within some clubs' sections for more club-specific reaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
There are a couple of groups on Facebook as well - occasionally there's a sudden outbreak of reasoned debate amidst the 'Irish League Fans' Facebook group, so it might be worth a look. The other main group 'Irish League Banter' is best avoided unless you like incessant posts about the Old Firm.
As for my own take on it - I'm not against the idea of having an All-Ireland League, but I just don't think it would be the best thing to do by my club (Glenavon). In my opinion, clubs like ourselves, Ballymena, Coleraine, Cliftonville etc. don't really have a great deal to gain from an AIL - in all likelihood, they will take turns at being 'yo-yo' clubs between the top two divisions, with maybe an occasional excursion into mid-table if things are going well.
Those clubs might put themselves under significant financial strain to stay in an AIL Premier Division, or else they'll play in a regionalised second tier that may be of a standard that is no better than what currently exists.
If I was a Linfield or Glentoran supporter, I'd probably support an AIL, because those clubs do have the potential to become 'superclubs' in an Irish context, along with Rovers, Dundalk etc. For what it's worth, I would happily support the creation of a proper All-Ireland cup competition - if nothing else, the away days would be mighty.
Before anyone gets carried away, you should go back and read the headline and contrast it with the actual content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Source
Was the feasibility study he funded Hypercube to conduct was free of charge?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket
I can't say. I didn't see the invoice.
If the findings of the report were anything to go by he'd probably have gotten change back on a tenner.
Never underestimate the pathological desire of those in the north from a particular background to reject anything to do with the south. And to be happy to be left sitting in a pile of dung, just so long as it's their wee pile of dung (with a flag on top).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
There are also many in the north who seem to think that the Irish League is as good if not better than the LOI and that it's going through some sort of major growth period at the moment. There is a lot of arrogance and dismissiveness shown towards the LOI up there (despite the results of the Setanta Cup, Unite the Union Cup, European football etc).
In fairness, there's a lot of arrogance and dismissiveness towards the IL from the LoI side too.
We're the ones with a bankrupt FAI, no pyramid system, top clubs continually going bankrupt, junior and underage and senior clubs barely talking to each other. We're the ones having random businessmen pulling figures out of their arses and then criticising the IL for not seeing what's best for them and jumping on board.
I think that side of things is worth keeping in mind too
Absolutely. Though I don't see the same attitude in the south towards the IL as there is in the north towards us. Which when you factor in results between the 2 leagues is genuinely baffling.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think the same attitude is there; we can be very dismissive of the IL here. Your own post was a minor example of it for example, describing the league as a "wee pile of dung". The reasons for the attitude may ultimately be more sectarian up the North, but the end attitude is fairly similar nonetheless.
The LoI is a stronger league overall than the IL, but I'm not sure why you're solely focussing on that. There's more to a league than its strength, otherwise none of us would follow the LoI.
We dont know as finances were secret until everyone signed up!Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
Apart from the subtle change to yer post I thought you were being ironic EYG as as far as I can recall the standard of IL was looked down upon from LoI circles with plenty of scoffing at a lack of professionalism with players and managers on holidays during European games and grounds rented out clashing with home legs. Progress on ground developments was generally acknowledged too though.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Only I didn't describe the Irish league as a wee pile of dung :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I said that there was an isolationist mentality in some quarters of the north which would be happy to sit in a pile of turds so long as it was their own wee pile with a flag in it. That's an observation about life up there, not just football.
But the results - in Europe, Setanta and Unite the Union Cup - generally bear out the view that the LOI is stronger than the IL. That's therefore just a statement of fact. Yet plenty in the north still look down their nose at us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
But so what if the results are better? Are results the be all and end all? We look down on the Premier League to an extend and I don't fancy many LoI teams' chances against Sheffield United or Burnley.
Would the Irish League not have a much more 'mixing of both sides' on the playing/participation side than the other main (non GAA) sports like Rugby, Hockey and Cricket. I know it is a class thing but I always find it interesting that this is often overlooked when there is talk of integration in education for example being something that should be done. RTE recently had a rugby player on their programme on a United Ireland putting forward the Unionist case.
Anyone with good knowledge of the Irish League be able to give an estimate of the percentage of Nationalists players there?
Also on average how many players from the south who cross the boarder to play each year?
The debate about which league is stronger, based on looking only on results between teams or European progress is something that may give give comfort to some, but for clubs and leagues and those that run them, the real strength measurement is having sustainable clubs and a league that does not regularly see clubs lurch from one crisis to the next or go bust.
All teams are mixed - most teams would have players from the Republic as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonder88
They're all non-sectarian and some, like Glentoran, are actively anti-sectarian.
What on earth are you on about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Is it all the years and all the recreational living but I seem to remember a Glentoran banner at an Irish Cup final V Linfield, way, way, way back in the day with 'Glentoran Play Football not Religion' on it
Don't they have a big sign saying "Jesus loves you" or something in the Oval? Sounds religious to me!
The club are. The fans are another matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Yes it's called a competitive sport. What else matters?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Well that backs up EYG's opinion to some extent - are you looking down your nose on LoI Mr P? You have a valid argument on this, but it is a results based game too. If we could put stars over crests for better run clubs IL trumps LoI, 2 runs to European group stages in the last number of years is much more fun!(as a Dundalk fan of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Be nice to add politics to such a banner, if sport and politics can truly be separated also.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
So why don't we pack the whole thing in and all go watch Man City?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgonigle
He did say competitive, not bought...:o
Glentoran are no better, nor worse than any other NIFL clubs in the work they do to deal with sectarianism. All clubs work to address such issues. Why do you put them on a pedestal above other clubs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Yes the game is results based, but not when the game may be unbalanced because one club is advantaged over another because a blind eye is turned,Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I didn't, I said they're one of the clubs but I'm most familiar with them so I used them as an example. Why are you so touchy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
We do watch Man City don't we? We can watch the premiership and go to the LOI, it's a mad concept. What criteria do you think we should decide football matches on? Our programme is better than Sheffield United but as you say I don't fancy our chances against themQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm not touchy, just find it strange that you even put some clubs above others in what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
You seem very defensive and combative Parker. And that's fair enough.At what stage for you is a AIL on? What's the bottom line for NIFL getting involved in an AIL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Why not just watch Man City and ignore the LoI though?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgonigle
After all, it's a results game
Cant help but feel its bad timing for such an anouncement from the Belfast Telegraph. Could have waited till things died down a little bit (when petrol bombs werent being thrown at police up north) or maybe that was their intention. I guess UEFA want to announce something positive along with the deeply unpopular new Champions league rules. Do think that new language will have to be used around the competition. For example, 'all-Ireland' might put off some up North.
The great thing about LOI is the comparative sizes of clubs. In the next 10 years, its not beyond the possibility of most teams being able to win the league. There was 5 league winners of the league between 2010 and 2020 (from 4 regions). An All-Ireland league adds another 4-6 clubs which are similar stature to LOI, who can all win the league. I think it will work better than something like the Belgian and Dutch league, where you can expect Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord to finish consistantly over Genk, Anderlecht and Liege.
I don't think this analysis stands up to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
In the past six seasons, Shamrock Rovers, Dundalk and Cork have not only won the title or the Cup each year, but have also been runners-up each year (except for Bohs breaking that last year by coming second in the league). That's an unprecedented dominance here.
Cork have since imploded due to mismanagement, and I think Dundalk are on the same road to be honest. Rovers appear to have a much more sustainable model with their academy, and I don't see who's coming through to challenge them at the moment given no-one's beaten them in the league since Sept 2019 (25 games now). Bohs are the obvious ones, but this year hasn't started well. Harps are battling relegation obviously, Sligo could be on the way up but can they launch a title challenge?
And what 4/6 IL clubs are going to challenge for a title? We know it's a weaker league (which isn't to say it's a lesser league) and I don't see any way Ballymena, Cliftonville or Larne (4th to 6th at the moment) could challenge for the title here.
I think a combined league would be more competitive in general - it couldn't not be - but I don't think it's true at all to say that most teams, including 4-6 from the IL, would have a chance of winning an AIL in the next ten years.