Yeah you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by boysingreen
Let's just jack it in!!!
Yeah you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by boysingreen
Let's just jack it in!!!
He'll get criticised regardless of how he plays. He's an easy target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Great analysis of the game by Steven Reid here: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30746551.html
I don't necessarily agree that dropping Robbie was a mistake but certainly the way the team was set up was a major factor in the way the game unfolded.
I thought this was quite a fair report from Scotland too: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...rawn-1-3605990
As usual the optimism misplaced and the usual suspects found out just like the players.very poor and oneill very bad.
We are where we are in the rankings like I said and we probably will be for a long time.shocking shocking performance just as bad as trap and oneill talking crap about deserving a draw.
Everyone om here would be saying if we got a draw how great we were and that it wouldn't be down to luck.everyone was saying that we were better man for man and Scotland weren't up to mucj.well their team looked two tiers above us.
It was as bad as anything under trap and keanes thinly veiled pot at keane and Mon doesn't help things and don't try and tell me that's what it was cos it's exavctly what it was.
At least keane would have held up the ball last night. Our play was terrible time after time we hoofed it.its Scotland ffs. Control the ball, play the ball.
It was just as bad as anything under trap. I thought we could sneak a draw but I knew Scotland were better than us.
Oh ya and georgia? Give me a break. As I said not up to much.poland showed that pretty well didn't they?
Pot-shots at disagreeing posters on here? Check.
Pot-shots at Robbie Keane? Check.
Casting doubt on all previous positive results? Check.
Reminders about how he'd called it right all along? Check.
It's a Paul O'Shea victory post alright.
All it was missing was Seamus Coleman conceding a penalty and we'd have the POSH Full House.
Well unfortunately I'd much rather I was wrong. I'd feel a lot better.
It's hard when ye call it right. But softened by being a realist and managing expectations accordingly.
The other performances particularly georgia were just as bad but as has been said before we got lucky.
bad day at the office.
We can play better and it's a shame we didn't vary our play. Scotland adapted to our aerial bombardment early on. Walters and Long were isolated when they did pick up scraps and I think that game was crying out for somebody like Wes to link up play. Pity he was injured.
Folk are going on about Scotland as if they played like Brazil in the 1970 World Cup in all the reports I read over last 10 hours, they played a little bit more football than us and scored one well taken goal because our team switched off at a set piece.
They caused us problems from crosses because our centre backs weren't winning their headers. Bread and butter stuff. If they weren't winning headers they were giving needless free kicks away. Coleman has been getting slagged but defensively he was covering for O'Shea and Keogh and made a number of blocks or did enough to put off opposition when close to goal. Pity we couldn't get him up the field where he is most effective.
McGeady was rattled and once he got the yellow card he was treading on egg shells. Same as Hendricks, difficult for a centre mid to pick up a yellow card so early in game. McClean was McClean, works hard but picks wrong option every time in possession and cannot take a set piece. We have a guy just like him in my Sunday league squad! Brady needs a chance at left mid.
Robbie swearing post match? Stay classy. Media will probably run with that story now for the next 4 days....
They won the midfield battle fairly comprehensively, but apart from that I didn't think there was much in it.
The goal didn't come from anything other than a well-worked set piece we didn't react to.
In midfield, we were far too deep for most of the game. On the occasions when the midfield got forward, we actually passed it round ok. But there were periods last night where the gap between midfield and attack was just massive, so there was no other option but to hoof it.
How would we have fared with McCarthy and/or Whelan in there? Were we defensively minded due to the absences, or would we have been anyway?
I think going on previous performances throughout the campaigns we would just have been the same. Scotland looked like brazil the way they played it on the floor and controlled in tight spaces compared to us. We out Britished the British with our football.
Well they'll have their win but they'll never have their freedom...
Freeee...oh wait no you didn't want that.
It's a curious deceptive analysis and a good read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
He doesn't really take issue with the way we were set up, except for that corner and he doesn't really take issue with dropping Robbie, but in the end he says we lost the game in midfield.
Which i'd also agree with, that regardless of shortcomings elsewhere, midfield was the crucial area.
Two very mediocre teams...
End of.
We now epitomise the word?
On way home from Glasgow, deflated. Great atmosphere, deflating night. There isn't much between the two sides but Scotland used what they have a lot better. That for me is the most disappointing thing, this wasn't Germany. We should have been able to match the scots in the possession stakes. Too much and too often we hoofed the ball long to the front two. How frustrating it must be for Walters and long to rely on hopeful long balls. So much for a change in approach!
Defensively, with the exception if the inexcusable lapse for the goal, thought we played well. Keogh impressed and looked assured with ball at his feet. Ward was ok, exposed once in second half because he was too deep. Don't feel we do enough to maximise colemans strengths.
Mcgeadys head didn't look in a good place right from the off. Disappointed that Hendrick was so ineffective but still one for the future.
Finally don't think we coped with Naismith role all night. We didn't seem to have allocated responsibility to who was to mark him, whether it was a CB or CM. Surely we need to look at more creative formations than 442 particularly given the personnel we have. We are not maximising this teams potential.
Wilson instead of Ward, Brady instead of McClean, McCarthy in the middle & Hoolahan off Keane or Long or Walters up front is what I would like to see from now on. Disgusted by last nights performance.
The better team won and the better coached team won.
Although I think we're a better team without the ball now than we were in recent years I think we failed to adapt to the space that Naismith found between midfield and attack. This is the space that Glenn Whelan occupies and a few people I met last night said that although he's a popular target for criticism, we did miss him.
We asked a lot of our midfield two and in hindsight Quinn should have been there too. Walters worked his nads off but ultimately our offensive play was all huff and puff and little else. Work the ball wide or chip it up the touchline, that's all we had. The first 15 mins of the second half was when we got most traction but Scotland's response to this passage of play was impressive. For almost all of the game (last decade) midfield contributed nothing in the way of creativity. That's why a Hoolahan player is needed. Without the ability to use the ball centrally in an opponent's half and to get into that space that Naismith was finding last night, we are one dimensional and easy to play against.
As for individual performances, only McGeady was below usual standard I think. We know sometimes McClean doesnt make inroads in some games. Coleman might have offered more going forward but I thought as individuals everyone was alright, it was the CM unit and everything that stems from that that misfired.
O'Neill was right though. Our home form in 2015 is what'll shape the outcome, not last night. We need to step up a few gears big time but I fear our coaching team are most familiar with a version of the game played in the 2000s, not the 2010s.
Nice to meet AB last night, I looked for you after my "pit stop" but lost you!
I'm pretty sure everyone was happy with the team before the game.
We didn't play as well as we could have and we lost.
Move on.
It wasn't a terrible performance, it just wasn't as good as Scotland.
They had more experience in the centre of the park and were more composed on the ball in what was a scrappy game on a slightly greasy pitch.
People talking about dropping McClean for this but McClean was our man of the match in Germany.
We've a bit to go in this group so let's not let our emotions get the better of us here lads
Keogh criticism may be over the top but so is the praise.
He let someone get a free cross into the box on 5 minutes, he let someone have a free header which is forgotten about because it went unpunished, he switched off for the goal (in fairness everyone did) and started completely losing his composure after the goal. I also read something a few pages back about him having a pop at Coleman too. He did the same thing after the one goal he wasn't at fault for against Portugal. He is decent with the ball at his feet but it makes no difference to the way we play. I'm much more concerned about him facing players direct and basics like staying tight to players in the box. Poland will have better attackers than Steven Fletcher but then hopefully Wilson will be back for that game.
Long & Walters linked up well at times and looked a hell of a lot sharper than Keane did in his last 20 odd games against teams of this stature. But we would have been stronger with Long on his own up front, granted Reid & Hoolahan were absent, granted they wouldn't have started to begin with.
Gibson was shocking. Hendrick would have been better served in a proper midfield 3 with Meyler.
It's not an unmitigated disaster as we have played Germany & Scotland (a) now and still welcome them to Dublin but I just cannot see us getting a solitary win against any of these teams in this campaign. It's just a mental block we have as a team.
O'Neill is as negative & bad as Trapattoni. A few lucky late goals doesn't change that. I said our luck would run out tonight & it did.
Keane's shots at Walters & Long & the management team, and his overall belligerence in that interview sum him up. He'll be back in the first 11 for the Poland game and if he isn't, there is going to be problems. He's not happy.
"If we play two up front & want to score goals."
That's the f***ing problem. We were playing Scotland not The Falkland Islands. You don't score f***ing goals against these teams.
Look at NI and Kyle Lafferty. Get Hoolahan & Reid back, get McCarthy back, persevere with Long.... we'll make headway.
Really? The closest remark on Keogh's performance that you could classify as "over the top" that I can find is this (no offence Fixer82, this is just the most complimentary post I can find about Keogh's performance)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Every other comment was reasonable, or critical, of his performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Did you? I used the search function to search your posts for "luck" and none of them mentioned our luck running out against Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I didn't notice him in the highlights against Romania last night, score a good goal against Greece alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
One of the worst performances I've seen from Ireland. Deserved nothing from the game. I've yet to see anything to suggest that MON was a better appointment that Mick McCarthy. McCarthy himself, if he is to ever return, is better coming in after the MON fascination has blown over. Last night is the the future. At 3 years of hoofball lie in store!
Bruce Arena thinks Robbie should have started. Bruce should manage Ireland.
I cant believe we lost to Alba. You people are the second biggest disgrace in Europe after Rod Stewarts hair. Im ashamed of my ancestry. Im not eating soda bread until at least 2019.
From the FAI's Twitter: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/533652598197583872
Quote:
Players trained today @ Gannon Park. Robbie Keane has been released to @LAGalaxy. Darron Gibson also released (minor knock to knee) #COYBIG
They should release half the team permanently.
Totally forgot about this game.
Robbie being released after he travelled all the way over. Would have thought he would want to play against USA?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Seems everything is not rosy in garden with Robbie / management? Maybe I am reading too much into it.
Bottom line is systemic problems led to the performance last night.
We need to go back to grass roots coaching
Some people on here really need to manage their expectations better.
It's still wide open lads. It's not all doom and gloom.
The occasion got to some of our lads but hopefully it will have added to their experience and we've three midfielders to come back into the team.
It's all to play for
We completed more passes v Germany than we did against Scotland. Put a positive spin on that one.
Not saying the campaign is over, just that that performance was utter drivel. Martin O'Neill reacted derisively to the post-match suggestion that we let the occasion get to us. Come on. We certainly did.
I think some players certainly did but he's probably just backing his players on publicQuote:
Originally Posted by boysingreen
Nobody, me included, is expecting Ireland to get anything from the game in March.
Even though Poland had players from the Polish, Romanian, Chinese & Russian leagues padding out their team last night.
We have players like Coleman (who wasn't allowed go past the halfway line where he is so effective for Everton) & McCarthy who don't resemble the same people that get rave reviews for their clubs week in, week out. Even Whelan's performances at domestic level go more appreciated, and with good reason.
There is enough evidence (Italy) that we can play better than this. Enough of the negativity. It has cost us so much since we were found out at Euro 2012.
Just a thought, but maybe Coleman wasn't allowed past the half way line because the Scotland left winger is a speed merchant who is known for exploiting space behind the opposing full back - case in point, his goal against Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
We can maybe trick the Poles. They are, after all, Polish. To wit from todays paper:
Warsaw-A Polish doctor says she is in deep shock since learning that a 91 year old woman she pronounced dead woke up in the morgue.
The doctor said Friday that she was sure the patient was dead after finding no basic life functions during a house call on Nov 6.
Prosecutors are investigating whether the patients life was endangered by the inaccurate diagnosis.
The woman laid in the mortuary for a few hours before a stunned undertaker noticed she was moving inside the body bag.
"The undertaker thought it was a prank or the rapture and then when he went to check it out, the woman poped right up and asked what happened to her bed she was napping in." Police said.
The undertaker was later seen drinking in a local pub.
Polish authorities said doctors should be trained to tell the difference between the living and the dead.
"Its probably important to be able to tell." Admitted a health official.
Exactly. Crosby thought we'd lose 3-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Expecting us to be able to do more than huff and puff and play head tennis all game is reasonable though. O'Neill has one game left to keep me thinking he's the man for the job. He has been publicly dismissive of the quality of our players and those he picks he doesn't trust to play without fear. It's a hybrid of Trap and Charlton. We need a more contemporary approach to a game that has moved on a lot in the last 5 years, let alone the last 25.
All of Irish football needs a reboot, but we all knew that anyway.
Separately, much is being made of Robbie Keane's comments. I have only read them rather than hearing them, so the tonal context is missing for me. He is clearly disagreeing with the hoofball tactics but I didn't think he is having a dig at the two who started. He says long balls don't suit him and he's more comfortable in a 442, that's where he scores goals. I did pick up on disquiet with the tactics but I didn't pick up on any disrespect to the others.
Fixer, yes it is all to play for but this is shaping up very similar to the last campaign. 3 evenly matched teams in contention for a playoff spot we came a distant third among those three. Experience tells me that once we start to slip behind we stay behind. With 5 home games left I'd almost be more comfortable with Stan in charge.
The only real difference between last night & a Trap Irish side was that we'd be lumping it long to Robbie Keane under the Trap. At least MO'N was smart enough to realise he isn't a target man.
Still dog **** football and something you can't rely on every time your team has the ball. That's why it was so disappointing to see. In previous matches we have at least try to play a little bit. Did we get sucked into the whole 'it's a like a derby game'?
The more you see the goal it makes me sick with envy!
The nutmeg on Hendricks, the flick by Brown and the finish. Who was slow coming out? Was it Brady? You see Brown is free & you've got to get out to him quicker. If he had then he may have been able to block the shot after the flick.
Trap had more plusses than minuses with the away team, only in Russia could you claim we managed nothing but defend. Claims of our use of the hoofball last night are exaggerated. We didn't play well, we didn't use (or get enough use from) Gibson, we didn't have an industrious skilled player like Hoolahan to manage affairs around the middle, but we tried to play it out, on the ground, time and time again.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Both goalies hoofed the ball from their kick outs, just as much as each other. Apart from that we mostly played the ball on the ground.
My definition of a hoof, is a ball hoofed from the kick out, or when the back 4 (under no pressure) hoof it rather than use midfield, or we end up hoofing it out after a bit of pressure. I only remember one hoof in the first half from the back 4.
I wouldn't say we hoofed particularly - if we had hoofed more we'd probably have had a bit more success. Our problem was that when we did try to play it through midfield or down the lines, our players were swarmed by Scotland who had more men in the right places to regain the ball. McGeady never got the ball without two men on him, Naismith, Fletcher and Maloney were constantly hassling Hendrick and Gibson, etc.
There were plenty of safety first type hoofs, but this isn't what I'm concerned about. Hoof may not be the correct word, but there were lots of speculative chips up the touch line or into the middle. The ball was in the air a lot and mostly because we put it there.
I only rememberer one safety first hoof clearance, from Keogh late in the first half I think, at least he got plenty of welly into it.
20m chips are not hoofs, not real hoofs. The midfield head the ball competitions came from both sides.
I thought we were beyond primitive. Yes we tried to get it down at times but when we did we could never get between their lines, only sideways. There were lots of high balls, chips and other non-measured, purely speculative passes that put the receiver under pressure and gave the defender every chance.
Anyway, despite that I thought it was a gripping physical context.
I liked this BBC description.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30067753
Interesting how he thinks that at key times in this campaign Scotland got lucky.
RTE's stattos saying it wasn't full on long ball game but it was not exactly tika taka either.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/
They say the 28 fouls showed how tough the game was. Is 28 not a low foul count?
I can only remember one offside all match. Were there many more?
Fair enough but I think it's been similar all through his Ireland career. He barely ever registers any shots on goal or crosses and his uncanny knack of ghosting into the box, like for Everton, is never seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I think we are missing a beat with him. I think he has been completely wasted at Intl. level. It would probably be better for all concerned if he was moved into midfield. I think he could be the source of goals that McGeady & McClean have never provided.
Just a pity that O'Brien isn't available as a feasible RB option.
And I don't want to rag on Walters all the time but his constant presence - be it in midfield or up front - just sums up Ireland's negativity and limitations IMO.
Edit: OK completely wasted is putting it a bit too strongly LOL.