Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Nothing in the team comes close to Trap taking over with the likes of Duff, Keane, Dunne, O'Shea and Given, with that level of skill, talent and experience(and age). Trap had it far better coming in, he had a very strong spine with great experience. You are giving me the impression that you have some sort of agenda regarding O'Neill and his term as manager, something to fall back on if he doesnt succeed in his stated mission to qualify Ireland for the Euros.

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Unlike some I'm backing us to qualify, we have the players and management team to do so, it's the easiest qualification criteria in history and I believe O'Neill can do it with a bit of managerial nous and I believe he has been given more than enough support to get us to qualify.
If he doesn't do it, it will rank as major failure. There's nothing for me to fall back upon as I have stated my opinion.
My opinion may be faulty as we may not qualify and O'Neill did his best with what he had.

I think it was you Paul who found fault or something up with a point I made once, that even in his worst epl season, off form and injury hit, Robbie was still better than Long. In the light of what you now write, I think you must have failed to grasp the point at that time or couldn't resist being sarcy.
Robbie and Duff both had passed their career peak at various times during Trap's first campaign.
But even in the autumn of their careers, Duff and Keane were still well ahead of what we have now and Trap knew their worth at the time.
Givens' quality was on the wane in or around 2011 and he became a liability.

Now we have a squad of players who are improving, we have different strengths, especially in midfield and O'Neill has more than enough to mould a competitive team.
If Scotland are supposed to be the team with their modest bunch then surely we can as well.

The glass is definitely half-full...

I think the positives are that Gibson, McCarthy, Brady and Reid all ought to be fit in the autumn. These will enhance our options.

We need to solve the left back problem pronto. Maybe Clark will step up in the US. Ward is a terrific bloke but he fills me with fear. I also really want to see someone make a compelling case to displace Whelan.

Although Georgia away is no gimme, the likelihood is that Oman, Georgia and Gib will mean we have a run of form going into the big games in October and November.

We need to start taking chances and cutting out the sloppy errors that cost us needless goals in the last two friendlies.

There is a lot of responsibility on MON to both devise a style of play and to make sure the players implement it.

But I agree with Ardee, the glass probably is half full. I want to see evidence it's not going to fall over though, which it might.

Enhance our options, but all about the same level of mediocrity that in the past havent really made much of a difference, they assimilate easily into and out of the team, neither missed or needed.

I think the 4 mentioned above would all have added something to what we put out in the last two friendlies.

Anyway, RTE all over the Keane - Celtic thing. Press conf later tonight apparently.

However, SSN hadn't mentioned anything at all.

Jazz hands Robbie Keane better than Shane Long in his worst EPL season. :rolleyes:

Someone that spends 85% of games chastising the referee and his teammates while another striker invariably does all the donkey work for him. Thank God he gobbles goals against small teams because if he didn't have that.... he's not renowned for his technical brilliance.

Now I may be not be appreciating Robbie Keane enough but you could accuse other people of not appreciating Shane Long or Kevin Doyle enough too!

Here we go again.

Looking like roy keane is on way to celtic. O'Neill has announced that dermot Desmond has rang him asking him wud it be ok to speak to him. O'neill said he expects roy to be at italy game on sat but now unsure if roy will going on the American tour for costa rica and portugal games

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Jazz hands Robbie Keane better than Shane Long in his worst EPL season. :rolleyes:

Someone that spends 85% of games chastising the referee and his teammates while another striker invariably does all the donkey work for him. Thank God he gobbles goals against small teams - he netted more in one game against Burnley than he in anyways because if he didn't have that.... he's not renowned for his technical brilliance.

Now I may be not be appreciating Robbie Keane enough but you could accuse other people of not appreciating Shane Long or Kevin Doyle enough too!

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You could simply decide to see the best in everyone?

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Originally Posted by back of the net

Looking like roy keane is on way to celtic. O'Neill has announced that dermot Desmond has rang him asking him wud it be ok to speak to him. O'neill said he expects roy to be at italy game on sat but now unsure if roy will going on the American tour for costa rica and portugal games

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Walking out on your country IS THAT THE NEW THING NOW ROY

It probably seems worse to us because he's so high profile, but would anyone really bat an eyelid if Mark McGhee left his assistant manager job at Scotland to manage Celtic? It would be seen as an opportunity too good to turn down, a man only trying to better himself by accepting a greater challenge. I think we might be better off without the Keano circus anyway to be honest, especially with his new book coming out at the beginning of the Euro campaign. Will there be a chance that he'll do both roles? I hope not.

Why would you want to manage Celtic at the moment? Where is the challenge? If he wins title after title people will go so what.

They're still a massive club, day to day management and an opportunity to rebuild his managerial reputation by winning a few handy trophies.

This could go one of two ways.

He signed a ream of Irish players at Sunderland, so if he maintains that transfer policy we could see a lot of Irish players in the CL.

Or Celtic could fail to qualify for the CL, in which case we would just have a lot of Irish players playing a sh*t level of football every week.

Personally, I would like to see Irish players playing CL football but Celtic qualifying is a big, big ask.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

We might need to change the headline of this thread back to "managed" if the Indo is to be believed. Keane bookies' fave to manage(d) Celtic.

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Yes, it was always a correct title, I am well ahead of the game, even my typing errors turn out to be correct!! :)




Hmmmm...... Ireland win 2018 world cup.....

As I always said, Celtic and Keane are a marriage made in paradise ;)
So the seating arrangement at he last game could have reflected the cooling relations?
No escape for our Anthony, what did he do to deserve this?

if Keane goes I would like every cent that was paid to him returned and.......... give us back the jersey.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I think we might be better off without the Keano circus anyway to be honest, especially with his new book coming out at the beginning of the Euro campaign. .

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I agree wholeheartedly. That article by Paul Rowan last week, the photos of Keane at the training sessions before the Turkey game, the rigmarole of people giving out about him doing punditry on the CL final before an Ireland match, just brought home how distracting it is to have so much focus on the assistant manager.
He's currently bigger than the team. I don't like that. Let these lads make a name for themselves and let MON go about his business without having to give a soundbyte about Roy at every press conference.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

We might need to change the headline of this thread back to "managed" if the Indo is to be believed. Keane bookies' fave to manage(d) Celtic.

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The worst odds I can see on that are 1/3 , he is 1/8 at PaddyPower, and 1/10 on at another bookie.

Looks like someone thinks they know something!

Worth a punt Tricky?

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Why would you want to manage Celtic at the moment? Where is the challenge? If he wins title after title people will go so what.

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Because it is easy job guaranteed to make you successful.

Lets face it even I would struggle to screw the job up, it is chance for Roy to show he can manage a 'big team'.

I say guaranteed but then look how Moyes struggled at Man U, what if half way through next season Celtic
are struggling in 4th or 5th place? It could happen. I am not a follower of Scottish football so I don't know
what sort of shape Celtic are in for next season, Roy may have been left a poisoned chalice a bit like Moyes was
perhaps?

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Originally Posted by geysir

Worth a punt Tricky?

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Not a chance, especially at 1/10, that is pretty ridiculous unless somene knows something.

For starters he could get run over by a bus at the weekend.

Only joking, I already have the mortgage on it!! :smiley_simmons:

It's actually a dangerous job. It's mandatory to qualify through 2 rounds plus play offs for the CL and then you have to win 3 games at the group stage.
The expectations at Celtic are to perform 2 or 3 miracles a season.
It's easier to be perceived a failure at Celtic than a success.

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Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

I agree wholeheartedly. That article by Paul Rowan last week, the photos of Keane at the training sessions before the Turkey game, the rigmarole of people giving out about him doing punditry on the CL final before an Ireland match, just brought home how distracting it is to have so much focus on the assistant manager.
He's currently bigger than the team. I don't like that. Let these lads make a name for themselves and let MON go about his business without having to give a soundbyte about Roy at every press conference.

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There has hardly been a transformation under the new management anyway, Roy does not have a lot to lose.

Not sure how it would affect Ireland, probably not much however I do wonder if O'Neil is the manager he was
his glory days are very much in the past.

I've always thought Roy's appointment was a decision that would invariably end in tears some day. I never thought it would happen quite so quickly. I have a feeling he'll still be in the Ireland dug-out in a few months.

Having thought about this a bit, I don't really see how it won't end in tears. The pressure in Glasgow is immense in spite of the low standard of the league, and Roy has a history of walking away without a moment's thought when the pressure comes on.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Having thought about this a bit, I don't really see how it won't end in tears. The pressure in Glasgow is immense in spite of the low standard of the league, and Roy has a history of walking away without a moment's thought when the pressure comes on.

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Just as did MON at Villa!

I thought he left Villa because Ciaran Clark injured him in training.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Jazz hands Robbie Keane better than Shane Long in his worst EPL season. :rolleyes:

Someone that spends 85% of games chastising the referee and his teammates while another striker invariably does all the donkey work for him. Thank God he gobbles goals against small teams - he netted more in one game against Burnley than he in anyways because if he didn't have that.... he's not renowned for his technical brilliance.

Now I may be not be appreciating Robbie Keane enough but you could accuse other people of not appreciating Shane Long or Kevin Doyle enough too!

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Look at me! Look at me! Over here! Over here!

Yawn.

I'm not sure what is more reprehensible. Me giving my own opinion or someone else quoting the 14th last post simply to have yet another go at me.

The irony was that post was ancient history before you brought it up, Stu. Everyone else had moved on, except you.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Jazz hands Robbie Keane better than Shane Long in his worst EPL season. :rolleyes:

Someone that spends 85% of games chastising the referee and his teammates while another striker invariably does all the donkey work for him. Thank God he gobbles goals against small teams because if he didn't have that.... he's not renowned for his technical brilliance.

Now I may be not be appreciating Robbie Keane enough but you could accuse other people of not appreciating Shane Long or Kevin Doyle enough too!

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I remember that Robbie was criticised early in his career for a tendency to score spectacular, highlight-reel goals and not get enough bread-and-butter goals to be a prolific striker - half a century of international goals later, against opposition great and small, in friendlies and competition, it appears he solved that problem, only to be criticised for doing this.

As regards a lack of technical brilliance, now I'm not sure if you're being ironic (really) but when you think about the great Irish strikers pre-Keane (Aldridge, Quinn, Stapleton, Cascarino) he was really the first one who didn't just get on the end of moves to finish chances - he created his own chances. I remember watching Match Of The Day one day when Gordon Strachan and Gerard Houllier were the pundits and they showed a clip of a Korean football juggler who was the half-time entertainment at one of the games (carrying a ball from his head half the length of the pitch). Host Adrian Chiles jokingly asked if either of them had managed somebody who could do that and Strachan said without blinking "Robbie Keane".
I guess, when all is said and done, the reason why I don't agree yet with those who believe Keane should have a dramatically reduced role in the upcoming campaign is that I expect him to score 4-6 goals (or possibly more) whereas I hope that Shane Long will get 2 or 3 (and that one of them will be a winner against Poland or Scotland)

I'd say Robbie is one of the most technically-gifted players we've ever produced. But that would mean I'd be encouraging this ridiculous revision of our greatest ever striker's career.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I'm not sure what is more reprehensible. Me giving my own opinion or someone else quoting the 14th last post simply to have yet another go at me.

The irony was that post was ancient history before you brought it up, Stu. Everyone else had moved on, except you.

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Irony (like rain on your wedding day)? Ancient history (barely 8 hours later)? Reprehensible no less. Your hyperbole knows no bounds and your ego is out of control... I will continue to address your anti-Keane agenda in a manner befitting the offending posts. People like samhaydenjr and Charlie have far more patience and class than I have in that regard.

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Originally Posted by samhaydenjr

I remember that Robbie was criticised early in his career for a tendency to score spectacular, highlight-reel goals and not get enough bread-and-butter goals to be a prolific striker - half a century of international goals later, against opposition great and small, in friendlies and competition, it appears he solved that problem, only to be criticised for doing this.

As regards a lack of technical brilliance, now I'm not sure if you're being ironic (really) but when you think about the great Irish strikers pre-Keane (Aldridge, Quinn, Stapleton, Cascarino) he was really the first one who didn't just get on the end of moves to finish chances - he created his own chances. I remember watching Match Of The Day one day when Gordon Strachan and Gerard Houllier were the pundits and they showed a clip of a Korean football juggler who was the half-time entertainment at one of the games (carrying a ball from his head half the length of the pitch). Host Adrian Chiles jokingly asked if either of them had managed somebody who could do that and Strachan said without blinking "Robbie Keane".
I guess, when all is said and done, the reason why I don't agree yet with those who believe Keane should have a dramatically reduced role in the upcoming campaign is that I expect him to score 4-6 goals (or possibly more) whereas I hope that Shane Long will get 2 or 3 (and that one of them will be a winner against Poland or Scotland)

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I think I can believe that after watching this!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq9AwloHntI

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Irony (like rain on your wedding day)? Ancient history (barely 8 hours later)? Reprehensible no less. Your hyperbole knows no bounds and your ego is out of control... I will continue to address your anti-Keane agenda in a manner befitting the offending posts. People like samhaydenjr and Charlie have far more patience and class than I have in that regard.

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At least they can constructively debate something without belittling someone. It's no more an "agenda" than the "agenda" against Long. 2 goals in his last 4 games yet all anyone - the media and fans - can talk about is the chances he misses. I didn't offend anybody as I never insulted anyone.

And "ancient history" was a figure of speech. I didn't literally mean that you replied to an ancient post!

All the reports I've read and some of the quotes on Twitter appear to be resigned to Keane going.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

At least they can constructively debate something without belittling someone. It's no more an "agenda" than the "agenda" against Long. 2 goals in his last 4 games yet all anyone - the media and fans - can talk about is the chances he misses. I didn't offend anybody as I never insulted anyone.

And "ancient history" was a figure of speech. I didn't literally mean that you replied to an ancient post!

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If you’re going to be credible about your judgement of players, you can’t have a such a subjective, varying standard.

If we want to be ultra-cynical, and Robbie is the show-pony, flat-track bully who over-celebrates his goals and whinges at referees, then Shane Long and Kevin Doyle are little more than blundering, huff-and-puff culchies who couldn’t hit a cow’s backside with a banjo, but get a free pass from the GAA-supporting yokels amongst our support because they run around a lot, clatter into people, and show ‘pashun’.

However, if we want to be positive, and Doyle and Long are, indeed, the under-rated, brave, physical, selfless, hard-working strikers that every team needs, then Robbie is, in turn, the outstanding goalscorer and finisher; peerless in Irish soccer, who has scored all kinds of goals against all kinds of opposition in both competitive and non-competitive games, and deserves to be credited as such.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

All the reports I've read and some of the quotes on Twitter appear to be resigned to Keane going.

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"Resigned" assumes regrets.
We don't know what Roy brought to the set up. He got paid a hefty fee for a 1st deputy role, demoted to 2nd deputy role and I doubt if it will matter that much if he goes.
Possibly he could have had a positive impact into the team and worked well with O'Neill, but we will never know. O'Neill will be left with a full complement of professional back room staff.

And who knows, maybe John Robertson might be ready to fill the 'void'? It's actually nothing personal against Keane, but I really want this to happen.

Just out of interest, how much compo will the FAI get from Celtic if Roy gets the job? I'm guessing it's a few million.

Personally, if it meant clearing off even a small portion of the FAI's debt and/or being able to get more youth coaches set up around the country, I'd be more than happy if he left and someone like Robertson came in.

No way it would be a few million.