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If I were a kid and was told I'd be in the army at 18 I'd have thought it was pretty cool, yes all the way.
On Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party advocating a 'No' vote on the grounds that it will push along privatisation of the health and education system, well is that true? Haven't read much about those issues in relation to this treaty and was wondering what the story is
I was at an industry lunch today where the most annoying man in the rodl was strongly advocating a "yes" vote and that my head would fall off if I voted "no".
Now I know this is no basis on which to exercise my mandate but I am tempted .........
I believe this may be something to do with competition but can't remember any direct link to the Treaty. Competition is good as stops governments from distorting by propping up their own businesses leading to unfair competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Private hospitals are already being built before this Treaty passed. I am not aware that the EU are pushing this - FF were elected to government in the full knowledge this was happening.
Blood is thicker than water.Quote:
Originally Posted by dfx
As an Irish citizen voting in an Irish referendum, your primary concern should be how this will affect Irish people, similiar to how you would in any other referendum, before worrying how it will affect Cyprus, Poland, and Lithuania.
The 491.5 million citizens have no vote on this constitution which is going to have a major impact on their lives and livelihoods for decades. Their parliaments are railroading it through without dissent tolerated in each of the other 26 member states, and you reckon they all want this joke to be ratified here?? :confused: :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin zac
A good reason to ignore the calls from some people to vote No just because other countries voted that way or because they don't require a referendum in their countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Any one want to have a guess at turnout for this? I think little chance will top 50%.
I reckon it'll be lower than that, meaning a No vote (as people who don't know or don't really care won't bother and are more likely to yes voters). The low turnout will give them the excuse to go again.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Turnout will be between 35-40% I believe, the majority I know aren't going to bother as they feel they either haven't been informed adequately (Yes) or honestly (No) on the Treaty
Its not directly beneficial to us. Our powers are reduced from an exaggerated level to a fair level. The question being, is it worth it for a better run Europe?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Don't you consider the Irish public to be stupid and hate them for electing FF continually? Would it be fair to say that, rather than looking for the best deal for the Irish public, you want to vote whats best for yourself?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
That's the third generalisation you've made in this thread, and unsurprisingly it's wrong again. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
I made up my mind 5 years ago on this, before it was agreed under the Irish Presidency. Party politics doesn't count imo, the issues in it do. Looking at the issues in it, and how they affect our country, it was a fairly easy decision to reach.
In the general election last year, I weighed up the government's record over the previous 5 years and voted accordingly. If I see an improvement in that record, I will review that vote next time round.
Are you going to admit calling the general populace of this country stupid, or do I have to go dragging up posts from 10 months ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I won't admit it, I'll shout it from the rooftops -- when it comes to many subjects, the level of collective stupidity in Ireland is incredibly high, probably on a par with the americans. We're gullible and naive in the extreme, and embarassingly easily led by marketing and deception. It's a major problem imho.
adam
http://www.caeuc.org/index.php?q=node/8Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
http://irishsocialist.net/
Right, so are the SP only realising that there's a free market and the increased competition that goes with it now, or what?Quote:
This is the aim of the oft-repeated EU policy: “an open market economy with free competition” in Art 105 TFEU. Protocol six of the new treaty states: “The internal market as set out in Article [1-3] ... includes a system ensuring that competition is not distorted.” Article 1-3 is about the objectives of the EU. Competition is one of the EU’s organising principles and is the framework for all other policies.
Really? The EU has moved to do this? It doesn't have its own water and sanitation, which countries has it 'bullied' into privatising these things? And, y'know, when will they get round to Ireland, because the ESB, Bus Eireann, Iarnrod Eireann and An Post are overpriced rubbish. It really shows the desperation here when they throw in Telecoms as if accessing Foot.ie was a cornerstone of human rights the same as access to healthcare and education.Quote:
Since the 1980s the EU has also moved to restructure essential public services such as water and sanitation, public transport, energy, post and telecoms as private businesses.
If this was wikipedia, I'd be sticking a big "CITATION NEEDED" mark next to this statement. Where does it say this?Quote:
And now, health, education and social care systems are in focus.
I voted SP in the last election. I'm not used to them lying. It really seems like the last throes of a dying entity to suddenly go from campaigning against motor insurance (now significantly reduced, not by socialist regulations but by EU competition) to decrying the EU as a Freedman-esque free for all.
Can we get over the whole "the last one was called the Constitutional Treaty" malarky, and deal with the actual contents of this one?Quote:
Neo-liberalism is EU policy, and it is pushed further by this renamed constitution.
Oh, and I like poking around these sites for the signs that they're not all they seem to be, little hints that they're just sensationalist grasping conspiracy theorists, more at home beside Republican Sinn Fein than serious sources of information. Complaining that the EU increases competition? Well, at least thats relevant, if not a surprise; its mentioned in the treaty. Now, where in the treaty does it say "Israel shall be allowed to kill Palestinians"? http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/...li_embassy.jpg
My opinion on the matter is that since when do all the major parties in Ireland come into agreement and want us the Irish public to vote yes!!! :confused:
Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Labour urging us to vote yes. The only party telling us to vote no is Sinn Féin, does anybody else find this strange!! Big Banners and posters everywhere telling us to vote yes......they are scarily urging us to vote in favour of this Treaty.
Also why is it that Ireland is the only country having a referendum? Because all the other EU countries are aware that their respective citizens will vote no....."France was just ahead of all the other countries in voting No. It would happen in all Member States if they have a referendum. There is a cleavage between people and governments… A referendum now would bring Europe into danger. There will be no Treaty if we had a referendum in France, which would again be followed by a referendum in the UK.”
- Nicolas Sarkozy, French President (EUobserver, 14 November 2007)
EU will have too much power and rights and there is a def bad feeling about this one. DEF VOTING NO.
FF, FG, and Labour and the PD's all vote yes to EU referendums. As coalition partners, the Greens are not allowed to vote No, and are not campaigning for the referendum as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by 37Beour
I don't agree with much our fearless leader has to say, but it has to be said that on our opinions of politics and our estimation of the electorate in general we are 2 peas in a pod. well said adamQuote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
The Nice Treaty is a prime example. the electorate showed some backbone in voting no only to crumble when the bertie brigade (AKA Fianna Fail) came out and said "Ah Listen Lad's you've got it wrong you need to be voting yes to this, sure i tell ye what we'll give you another go!" ffs in any other country (well maybe with the exception of the US) the people would be in uproar at the cheek of the gov telling them (the people) that they are wrong and would have returned an even bigger majority against the treaty, but oh no not Ireland we bow our heads muttering our apologies to our masters in kildare st. and give them what they want. Democracy is supposed to work the other way with the government bending to the will of the people not vice versa, so we eventually signed up for nice and look at the state of the country now. Lisbon will only make things worse, and I hope to god the Irish electorate show this government that we won't be bullied into this but I'm not holding my breath
Anyone know what it actually does ?
Will it take power away from our goverment if so good ill vote yes.
I was a floating voter untill SF made up my mind for me if they say No im voting Yes
Havent read up much on it yet but heard rumblings about if a Yes vote goes
through then the EU can decide on and set some of our tax rates.
If this is the case its no wonder the Government are backing a Yes vote as
then if EU rises tax our bucks can turn around, shrug their shoulders and say,
well its EU not us raising tax and ye were the ones who voted for this to
happen.
Seems to take some of the accountability away from our own government.
If this isnt the case then apologies, as I said I havent read up on it myself
yet, just listening to others.
Had my head melted on the train the other day with a gobby wan from
Tullamore sitting beside me going on about it. She's gonna vote Yes cos her
Dad tol her that anyone voting No are people who hate Europe ... but she
was slightly concerned cos her mate told her if Yes goes through then we'll
all be sent to war. She's for Europe but against War ... although I got the
impression the only thing she liked or knew about Europe were from her
Budget Travel brochures
I'm telling you, we should send her to war cos 5 minutes listening to her would
force any foe into submission
Power and money. More important to the Yes camp in this referendum than the wellbeing of the people. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Ash