Mick McCarthy

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05/03/2021, 9:35 PM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

And if Connolly had put his late chance against Georgia away, he'd be hailed as a genius.
That's football.

If he had brought on Connolly a bit earlier when the game was crying out for him he'd have given himself a better chance of earning the genius tag. That game to me was up there with Kerr against Switzerland for the most frustrated Ive been with a manager.
05/03/2021, 10:11 PM
Diggs246

If we had beaten Georgia. Denmark wouldn't have played for the draw they needed in that last game. They could easily have beaten us
05/03/2021, 10:19 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

If he had brought on Connolly a bit earlier when the game was crying out for him he'd have given himself a better chance of earning the genius tag. That game to me was up there with Kerr against Switzerland for the most frustrated Ive been with a manager.

In fairness, Connolly has done nothing since (and he's young of course), but it's a bit much to say we were crying out for a PL2 player
05/03/2021, 10:36 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggs246

If we had beaten Georgia. Denmark wouldn't have played for the draw they needed in that last game. They could easily have beaten us

we were the better team that night and should have won. best performance since wales away 2017 for me. to say they could easily beaten us that night is stretching credability based on how the game went.
05/03/2021, 11:31 PM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In fairness, Connolly has done nothing since (and he's young of course), but it's a bit much to say we were crying out for a PL2 player

It was the pace up front we were crying out for
05/03/2021, 11:33 PM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggs246

If we had beaten Georgia. Denmark wouldn't have played for the draw they needed in that last game. They could easily have beaten us

So by that logic we were right not to try win the Georgia game so?
06/03/2021, 12:58 AM
Snapshot

Had Stephen Kenny been in charge then (and using what he's overseen so far as a reference) I believe we would have lost heavily in the four games against Denmark and Switzerland, taken four points from Gibraltar and one, maybe two from Georgia. He would have been sacked. But had he achieved McCarthy's modest results the campaign would have been hailed a triumph for the new, liberated, free-flowing, in-transition, golden-generation driven Ireland. Such is life.
06/03/2021, 6:17 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

It was the pace up front we were crying out for

Maybe, but there's more to football than just pace, as Usain Bolt will confirm
06/03/2021, 6:42 AM
ontheotherhand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapshot

Had Stephen Kenny been in charge then (and using what he's overseen so far as a reference) I believe we would have lost heavily in the four games against Denmark and Switzerland, taken four points from Gibraltar and one, maybe two from Georgia. He would have been sacked. But had he achieved McCarthy's modest results the campaign would have been hailed a triumph for the new, liberated, free-flowing, in-transition, golden-generation driven Ireland. Such is life.

So you're basing your opinions off of wild, irrelevant hypotheticals? Solid stuff. I'd wager that if Kenny had the squad Mick did his results would have been far better. I judge mccarthy on his "modest" results with our best players and Kenny on his modest to poor results with our worst players. You have a bias that shows pretty clearly when you claim Kenny would have had some degree of preferential treatment if he did exactly the same as McCarthy when in actual fact the daggers have been out for him from the get go. And again...for the third time
...we pay Kenny HALF what we paid McCarthy. There's no comparison worth making. If you have another manager who would accept half McCarthy's wages who you'd like to compare to Kenny then go ahead.
06/03/2021, 7:26 AM
Diggs246

No I'm just saying because we didnt beat Georgia Denmark had the luxury of playing for a draw. If we beat Georgia they have a different game plan
06/03/2021, 7:51 AM
Diggs246

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

we were the better team that night and should have won. best performance since wales away 2017 for me. to say they could easily beaten us that night is stretching credability based on how the game went.

Yes agreed we were good. But Denmark got what they came for, we absolutely didn't
06/03/2021, 8:02 AM
Yard of Pace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

If he had brought on Connolly a bit earlier when the game was crying out for him he'd have given himself a better chance of earning the genius tag. That game to me was up there with Kerr against Switzerland for the most frustrated Ive been with a manager.

Probably depends on your favoured brand of masochism, but the one that looms largest in my mind was the experience of sitting in the stand in the home game against Austria under Trap, and watching Ireland drop deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, slowly, surely, always, unrelentingly dropping ever deeper.......for about an hour.....and then the almost release of Alaba's goal.

Horrific.

But memorable. And very very frustrating. God, that was so so frustrating.
06/03/2021, 8:07 AM
Snapshot

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

So you're basing your opinions off of wild, irrelevant hypotheticals? Solid stuff. I'd wager that if Kenny had the squad Mick did his results would have been far better. I judge mccarthy on his "modest" results with our best players and Kenny on his modest to poor results with our worst players. You have a bias that shows pretty clearly when you claim Kenny would have had some degree of preferential treatment if he did exactly the same as McCarthy when in actual fact the daggers have been out for him from the get go. And again...for the third time
...we pay Kenny HALF what we paid McCarthy. There's no comparison worth making. If you have another manager who would accept half McCarthy's wages who you'd like to compare to Kenny then go ahead.

My opinions on Kenny are based on facts - eight games, one goal, poor performances, backroom turmoil. McCarthy was paid ridiculously too much - blame the FAI, not McCarthy or me. Kenny is paid €500k per annum - relative pittance for a successful international manager, too much for a failure (as Kenny is to date). I offered a hypothetical on how I thought results would have gone. Big deal!
06/03/2021, 8:46 AM
Diggs246

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

Probably depends on your favoured brand of masochism, but the one that looms largest in my mind was the experience of sitting in the stand in the home game against Austria under Trap, and watching Ireland drop deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, slowly, surely, always, unrelentingly dropping ever deeper.......for about an hour.....and then the almost release of Alaba's goal.

Horrific.

But memorable. And very very frustrating. God, that was so so frustrating.

Macedonia. I still have nightmares. In recent times Georgia away under mon
06/03/2021, 1:07 PM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggs246

Macedonia. I still have nightmares. In recent times Georgia away under mon

I said Switerland under Kerr but Israel could have been chosen instead. Duff tearing them apart in midfield, one of the strikers gets injured in 1st half so he moves Duff upfront where he becomes completely ineffective. Meanwhile the Israel keeper almost causes a pitch invasion with his time wasting antics.
06/03/2021, 1:32 PM
tetsujin1979

Definitely Switzerland under Kerr - considering the players he had, and the stage of their careers, to barely trouble their goal in a game we had to win was unforgettable
07/03/2021, 5:09 AM
ontheotherhand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapshot

My opinions on Kenny are based on facts - eight games, one goal, poor performances, backroom turmoil. McCarthy was paid ridiculously too much - blame the FAI, not McCarthy or me. Kenny is paid €500k per annum - relative pittance for a successful international manager, too much for a failure (as Kenny is to date). I offered a hypothetical on how I thought results would have gone. Big deal!

So Snapshot isn't a clever name? Context is important. Mccarthy and Kenny have had completely different players to pick from. Mccarthy scraped a few draws with our best 11. What would he have "achieved" with our third best? Given that McGoldrick and Duffy were his best players and both sort of haven't been there for Kenny...Im not so sure Mccarthy would be doing so much better. 😅
07/03/2021, 8:38 AM
Snapshot

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

So Snapshot isn't a clever name? Context is important. Mccarthy and Kenny have had completely different players to pick from. Mccarthy scraped a few draws with our best 11. What would he have "achieved" with our third best? Given that McGoldrick and Duffy were his best players and both sort of haven't been there for Kenny...Im not so sure Mccarthy would be doing so much better. 

Not completely different players! And you conveniently forget other countries were stricken by injuries and covid. You ask me what would McCarthy have achieved - happy to answer but you'd then accuse me, as above, of "wild, irrelevant hypotheticals"!

Completely different players?
McCarthy's selection in his final game: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Whelan, Hourihane, Hendrick, Browne, McGoldrick, McClean. Subs Clark, Robinson Maguire

Players available to Kenny v Bulgaria in Sofia: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Coleman, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick, Shane Long, McClean, Brady, Brown, O'Dowda.

Players available to Kenny v Finland in Helsinki: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Stevens, Long, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick, O'Shea, Long (S), Connolly.

Players available to Kenny v Wales in Cardiff: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, O'Shea, Stevens, Hourihane, Hendrick, O'Dowda, Connolly, Clark.

Players available to Kenny v Slovakia: Almost same as McCarthy's last game (v Denmark).
07/03/2021, 2:44 PM
ontheotherhand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapshot

Not completely different players! And you conveniently forget other countries were stricken by injuries and covid. You ask me what would McCarthy have achieved - happy to answer but you'd then accuse me, as above, of "wild, irrelevant hypotheticals"!

Completely different players?
McCarthy's selection in his final game: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Whelan, Hourihane, Hendrick, Browne, McGoldrick, McClean. Subs Clark, Robinson Maguire

Players available to Kenny v Bulgaria in Sofia: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Coleman, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick, Shane Long, McClean, Brady, Brown, O'Dowda.

Players available to Kenny v Finland in Helsinki: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Stevens, Long, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick, O'Shea, Long (S), Connolly.

Players available to Kenny v Wales in Cardiff: Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, O'Shea, Stevens, Hourihane, Hendrick, O'Dowda, Connolly, Clark.

Players available to Kenny v Slovakia: Almost same as McCarthy's last game (v Denmark).

You've been very selective there. How about our last game against Bulgaria where Long, Manning, Knight, Horgan, Collins and Curtis had to start? Or Wales away with Idah, Horgan, Molumby, O'Shea and Long? You're also not acknowledging the lack of a proper striker or the complete decline of Duffy who was our main goal threat and saved results for both managers when he was still a presence. kenny had both Duffy and McGoldrick for Slovakia which, not surprisingly was probably our best performance under him and a game we should have won.

We aren't blessed with 11 top players so losing any is tough, losing the amount Kenny has is a disaster particularly when attempting to actually play a different style of football. How was he supposed to get any sort of consistency with players dropping in and out not to mention the knives being out somewhere in the FAI. Give it some time. You may end up bang on the money and I won't be shocked if so as I don't rate Kenny that highly based on his performance with Rovers primarily but the data set is weak as it stands and ...again....we can't afford McCarthy or his ilk anyway. So, ultimately, what's the point in comparing them? If Kenny is replaced..it will be a former player or similar who is given the job unless the FAI finds the money to pay of it's debts in the couch cushions.
07/03/2021, 5:46 PM
tetsujin1979

Caps awarded by the previous two managers

Code:

Player McCarthy Kenny Conor Hourihane 8 7 Darren Randolph 7 8 Shane Duffy 7 8 Jeff Hendrick 8 6 James McClean 8 5 Enda Stevens 7 5 Robbie Brady 4 8 Matt Doherty 3 7 Callum Robinson 6 3 Alan Browne 6 2 John Egan 4 4 Callum O'Dowda 3 5 David McGoldrick 5 2 Glenn Whelan 6 0 Seamus Coleman 6 0 James Collins 4 2 Sean Maguire 3 3 Kevin Long 2 4 Scott Hogan 5 0 Aaron Connolly 2 3 Daryl Horgan 0 5 Adam Idah 0 5 Jay Molumby 0 5 Richard Keogh 4 0 Alan Judge 4 0 Jack Byrne 2 2 Josh Cullen 2 2 Cyrus Christie 1 3 Ronan Curtis 1 3 Dara O'Shea 0 4 Shane Long 0 3 Jason Knight 0 3 Ciaran Clarke 2 0 Kieran O'Hara 2 0 Derrick Williams 2 0 Mark Travers 2 0 Troy Parrott 1 1 James McCarthy 0 2 Aiden O'Brien 1 0 Lee O'Connor 1 0 Harry Arter 0 1 Ryan Manning 0 1

Capped by McCarthy but not Kenny(yet): Glenn Whelan, Ciaran Clarke, Seamus Coleman, Richard Keogh, Alan Judge, Aiden O'Brien, Scott Hogan, Kieran O'Hara, Derrick Williams, Lee O'Connor, Mark Travers

Capped by Kenny, but not McCarthy: Daryl Horgan, Adam Idah, Jay Molumby, Dara O'Shea, Shane Long, Jason Knight, James McCarthy, Harry Arter, Ryan Manning

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