UEFA Coefficient

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

25/07/2009, 1:24 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

does 30th benefit in any way such as entering qualifying at a later stage or being seeded or is the seeding down to an individual teams points?

What round you enter is based on countries rankings, and how teams qualified for europe (cup winners, league placings etc)

Seedings within rounds are based on club rankings (of which the country ranking is a part of)
26/07/2009, 5:49 PM
HarpoJoyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

does 30th benefit in any way such as entering qualifying at a later stage or being seeded or is the seeding down to an individual teams points?

Dodge gave you the short answer. If you wanted something more specific.

We can take this years Access List 2009/2010 Finland are 30th spot.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uef...id=788326.html

If there is no change in the format, 30th spot is one place short of one of the Europa League reps. landing a 3rd. round qualifying place. 'CW' will be the FAI Cup Winners, if the LoI champions win the double then the 'CW' place reverts to the League table and the runners-up in the league will take 'CW'. The FAI cup runners-up still qualify for the Europa League but come in as N3.
A small thing like the Europa League champions of 2009/10 qualifying for the Champions league in 2010/2011 and not taking up their EL place as holders could be enough to push the LoI CW into the qualifying 3rd Round.

(Credit holidaysong amongst others he helped me out with that this season, as I understand Derry City got a EL q2 place because of a change above them and then their own coefficient got them seeding for q2 round.
UEFA use the tecnical term 'Knock-on effect' for this senario.)

I think its great the huge leaps LoI have made up the table and have tried to maximise their position. 40th, 35th, 35th and next year 30th is the sequence of rankings. Big step, consolidation, big step normal development. And because every result is calculated (albeit partial points for early rounds) I trust the measurent over the five year period.

For the 30th spot, clubs have to thank Shelbourne and Bohemian and Longford Town and Cork City and Derry City and Drogheda United and St. Patrick's Athletic. Maybe the small number over five years is a clue to the success aswell.
30/07/2009, 10:20 PM
swinfordfc

29th

Up to 29th placed - well done St Pats
31/07/2009, 7:15 PM
Martinho II

Quote:

Originally Posted by swinfordfc

Up to 29th placed - well done St Pats

excellent stuff. pity bohs and sligo couldnt have brought it higher ...
01/08/2009, 6:25 PM
CuanaD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinho II

excellent stuff. pity bohs and sligo couldnt have brought it higher ...

True, but it has been a very difficult year & yet we have gained 1.25 points (5points/4teams) - this equates well with the year we just lost - 1.333 points (4points/3teams) & we still have at least 2 games to go - it's better than most of us would have hoped for 2 months ago
01/08/2009, 6:43 PM
Tony Soprano

btw you all know that how many teams each country has, which rounds they enter - that has already been determined for next season (2010/11) if LOI teams score a load of points it will be season after next (ie 2011/12) before we see changes in the rounds we enter. . Points scored by teams (ie for deciding seeding within rounds) will count next season however - lets hope Pats qualify (looks like they may need to win FAI Cup though)
01/08/2009, 6:48 PM
PartySaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Soprano

lets hope Pats qualify (looks like they may need to win FAI Cup though)

Ha good one
01/08/2009, 7:55 PM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Soprano

btw you all know that how many teams each country has, which rounds they enter - that has already been determined for next season (2010/11) if LOI teams score a load of points it will be season after next (ie 2011/12) before we see changes in the rounds we enter. . Points scored by teams (ie for deciding seeding within rounds) will count next season however - lets hope Pats qualify (looks like they may need to win FAI Cup though)

Thanks, had no idea about any of that:rolleyes::rolleyes:
01/08/2009, 8:00 PM
Steve Bruce

Could some one calculate the Irish Leagues for me................. :embarrasse: :D
01/08/2009, 9:20 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Could some one calculate the Irish Leagues for me................. :embarrasse: :D

At a guess, very close to zero....... :D
01/08/2009, 9:36 PM
WexCar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Could some one calculate the Irish Leagues for me................. :embarrasse: :D

website here

NI 49th place with 1.624pts and earned a hefty 0.125pts this year
02/08/2009, 7:08 PM
JC_GUFC

I've just seen the graphs of rankings that are on the site.

In 1993 there were some "new" countries added with the break-up of Yugoslavia and Soviet Union. Before this there were 33 teams - Northern Ireland were 30th and Ireland 31st. The only leagues below us were Luxembourg and Malta.

There are now 20 more teams than there were and provisionally for 2010 we're up to 29th while Northern Ireland are 49th with Luxembourg and Malta still below them as well as San Marino and Andorra.

Ireland's highest ever ranking was 24th out of 33rd countries - we were last that high in 1985.
02/08/2009, 8:33 PM
HarpoJoyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

I've just seen the graphs of rankings that are on the site.

In 1993 there were some "new" countries added with the break-up of Yugoslavia and Soviet Union. Before this there were 33 teams - Northern Ireland were 30th and Ireland 31st. The only leagues below us were Luxembourg and Malta.

There are now 20 more teams than there were and provisionally for 2010 we're up to 29th while Northern Ireland are 49th with Luxembourg and Malta still below them as well as San Marino and Andorra.

Ireland's highest ever ranking was 24th out of 33rd countries - we were last that high in 1985.

"1985" is really 1983.
The Dubs took over after that and everything went pear-shaped.
Northern Ireland strenghtend their lead with wins over shamrock rovers and 1:1 or 0:0 results in the Cup-Winners-Cup versus Dynamo Dresden ( and company). The Irish League showed the LoI the route out.
But it's a very shallow ramp.

In 1993-94 LoI were losing to Tavirya (never spelt like that with Irish sources) Simferipol [Of both The Crimea and The Ukraine] in the preliminary round of the Champions League.(Shels were unlucky, they had 3 good chances in the first ten minutes in Dublin including one that rolled along the goal-line before being cleared.)
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...=46/index.html

Glentoran were in the First Round competing against Olympique Marseilles.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...=47/index.html
OM eventually won out and went on to win the competition.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/history/index.html

I have no sympathy for posters that attempt to use UEFA/Co-Efficient history to try to malign Irish League football. The evidence is the reverse.
At present the LoI is above Hungary of the '1980's/1990's target leagues' that LoI supporters would have wanted to emulate. Iceland wasn't on our radar until they stuffed us 3-0 and 3-0. We had to aknowledge them then.
02/08/2009, 8:38 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

I have no sympathy for posters that attempt to use UEFA/Co-Efficient history to try to malign Irish League football. The evidence is the reverse.

I'm not sure what your point is here HarpoJoyce.

The evidence shows that the IL is weaker than the LOI, and weaker than almost every other league in Europe. Are you stating that this isn't the case ?

Whatever happened in the 1980's isn't relevant, and isn't evidence - it's history.
02/08/2009, 8:49 PM
HarpoJoyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I'm not sure what your point is here HarpoJoyce.

The evidence shows that the IL is weaker than the LOI, and weaker than almost every other league in Europe. Are you stating that this isn't the case ?

Whatever happened in the 1980's isn't relevant, and isn't evidence - it's history.

Why don't you re-read the post I quoted.

NI gets mentioned alot. The UEFA co-efficent is consistent enough that it is used as a continous line through the European history of many different leagues. You are unlucky, the table doesn't lie.

I agree that this is History. It's also evidence, plus the anecdotal individual match stuff.
02/08/2009, 11:11 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

At a guess, very close to zero.......

What comes around goes around. Really wasn't that long ago the LOI where behind the IL
02/08/2009, 11:27 PM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

What comes around goes around. Really wasn't that long ago the LOI where behind the IL

Football has irrevocably changed in the last twenty years. Therefore it is unlikely that what comes around will go around.
03/08/2009, 1:05 AM
JC_GUFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

In 1993-94 LoI were losing to Tavirya (never spelt like that with Irish sources) Simferipol
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...=46/index.html

Glentoran were in the First Round competing against Olympique Marseilles.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...=47/index.html
OM eventually won out and went on to win the competition.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/history/index.html

That's pretty amazing when you think of it. LoI teams are getting to play bigger and bigger teams each year and not performing badly, although pretty defensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

Why don't you re-read the post I quoted.

NI gets mentioned alot. The UEFA co-efficent is consistent enough that it is used as a continous line through the European history of many different leagues. You are unlucky, the table doesn't lie.

I agree that this is History. It's also evidence, plus the anecdotal individual match stuff.

I think you've totally misunderstood me Harpo.

I was pointing out the Irish League rankings because there are Irish League fans who read this forum - and most League of Ireland fans would have some bit of interest in the league.

It does show how we've moved in different directions since then but that wasn't the point I was making.

To be fair to the Irish League clubs they got very tough draws. Odense hammered Pat's a few years back and the Danish League is the best Scandinavian league at the moment so Linfield were unlikely to get anything. Glens had a tough draw and Crues performed as well as Sligo did.
Obviously being out of season for Distillery didn't help...
03/08/2009, 1:11 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

Why don't you re-read the post I quoted.

NI gets mentioned alot. The UEFA co-efficent is consistent enough that it is used as a continous line through the European history of many different leagues. You are unlucky, the table doesn't lie.

I agree that this is History. It's also evidence, plus the anecdotal individual match stuff.

I've treated myself by re-reading what you wrote both now and before. And I'm still none the clearer.

My out-take of what you've said is 'stop with the superiority over the IL people, as 20 years ago they were better than us'.

If that is a broadly correct summary of your point, then my response is 'so what' ? Huddersfield Town used to be one of the most successful clubs in England, but that doesn't stop Man United and a host of other clubs having bragging rights over them in this day and age.

We don't live in the past.

:ball:
03/08/2009, 8:25 AM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maribor

Football has irrevocably changed in the last twenty years. Therefore it is unlikely that what comes around will go around.

LOI isn't very healthy at the moment financially. Who's to say what will happen inside the next 5 years?

Cork, Bohemians, Derry City, St Pats etc could all be forced to turn part-time (or worse, cease to exist)

The IFA president Kennedy has publicised his desire for summer football in the IL, which will leave our players fitter and sharper for Europe. Sponsorship, whilst still considerably less than the LOI IS increasing. Crowds at some clubs are going up steadily e.g. Coleraine and with recession a lot of players from England and Scotland are coming home again because clubs cannot afford to keep them on, so the level is gradually getting better.

Linfield have shown in the Setanta cup that we are not that far behind the top teams in the LOI (and we play makeshift teams as the Setanta cup is low down in our priorities), Glentoran have shown they are capable as well last year by getting to the final.

So yes I do believe what comes around goes around and the LOI and ILs gap will close in the future whether that's down to the LOI imploding or the IL getting better, or maybe a bit of both.

Time will tell.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page