Next Ireland manager?

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Originally Posted by brine3

The choice of the training venue is very much the decision of the manager. At Euro 2012 the team was based outside Gdansk, and the week before that the team was based at a proper football training facility in Italy. All of Trap's choosing.

Mick chose Saipan because one of his mates said it was good and promised him there would be a good training pitch. It had nothing to do with the FAI.

The man is a bluffer and a darling of the British press.

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The training facilities they had in Japan were second to none. The idea of Saipan was some relaxation prior to the training. It was a pre-training camp. I think it was Ray Treacy's idea - probably benefitting him financially. It's crazy that you'd add extra flights and miles - it's not as if there's nowhere in Japan you can't relax a bit. But it was clear from the Sunderland testimonial that Keane had demons in his head. The press knew it too which is why they were all itching to get the interview. I wouldn't judge McCarthy's candidacy on a bad decision not to go straight to Japan myself. It was 16 years ago and he's been through a lot since then. The game has changed a lot too and he has been up close to it through this time, only being out of work since late last season.

Beyond that, I'm not sure he's a bluffer. He has achieved quite a bit with limited resources. I suspect he is somewhat limited himself. I think he gets the basics right but isn't a master tactician or a visionary coach. He's more of a leader but a leader who actually does work on the training ground.

Kilbane was on OTB last night saying he'd have more immediate impact than Kenny simply because of the effect he'd have on the players and the aura he has. Unfortunately the 2020 Euros changes the context quite a lot. I'd be all for giving Kenny a 4 year contract with a wide remit and to tell him that he'll be judged over the longer term and on a variety of measures, but that's not going to happen. I see McCarthy as being capable of getting the team's mojo back quickly. A sugar rush that may wear off but that's probably more of what we need. I think Mick could also be charged with developing a succession plan via the U21s and Kilbane agreed that he's not just a "senior team only" man.

It's a tough one really. My heart says Kenny, my head says McCarthy. I'm intrigued by McDermott or Cook. In due course I really think Reid and Carsley will have a role to play. Either of these could be Mick's assistant on day one.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

Updated list, with those employed, critically ill, or finally laughed out of football removed, and new suggestions added.

Also, who is this Walsall? I know you're far to polite to be calling me by my deadname :p

Allardyce, Sam
Arena, Bruce
Blanc, Laurent
Bosz, Peter
Bradley, Bob
Bruce, Steve
Carsley, Lee
Carvahal, Carlos
Cocu, Phillipe
Coleman, Chris
Cook, Paul
Goran-Eriksson, Sven
Hasenhüttl, Ralph
Holloway, Ian
Jardim, Leonardo
Jokanovic, Slavisla
Jol, Martin
Keane, Robbie
Kenny, Stephen
Klinsmann, Jurgen
Lennon, Neil
Lopetegui, Julen
McCarthy, Mick
McDermott, Brian
Mihajlović, Siniša
Monk, Gary
O'Leary, David
O'Neill, Michael
Pékerman, José
Queiroz, Carlos
Schaaf, Thomas
Schuster, Bernd
Sheridan, John
Sousa, Paulo
Stöger, Peter
Van Gaal, Louis
Van Marwijk, Bert
Wenger, Arsene

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From your list

Very happy with:
Bradley; Kenny
Coleman; Cook; Schaaf;

Potential to go either way:
McDermott; O'Leary; Queiroz; Sousa;

Don’t rate:
Monk, Gary;

Short-term solution:
Allardyce; Carvahal; Van Gaal; Van Marwijk;

Interesting:
Hasenhüttl; Jardim; Schuster;

One of these need to be involved in some capacity, as either Head Coach, or a dual-link with the 21s and the extended first team/development team squad:
Carsley, Lee (Head Coach), Steven Reid, Kenny Cunningham.


The more I think about it, if I was told that there was a complete overhaul of the system - and by the system I mean the strategic planning around the Senior Mens team, as the underage seems to be improving, and in theory should only get better with the new national league streaming the best lads together regularly in a safe environment - and also told that Sam Allardyce was given a contract to the end of Euro 2020, then I wouldn't be disappointed.

We're lacked structure. We've lacked coaching. We've lacked a game plan. We've lacked leadership. I think he'll tick all those boxes.
I don't think we can disassociate the new for reform in Irish football with the need to also make Euro2020. The payoff from 2020 - with a competent CEO - funds the reform of Irish domestic football in a serious way. Not qualifying sends us into a tailspin, and probably takes the reforms required (media, the LOI) a little bit longer to reap a dividend.

I don't believe Allardyce's teams were easy on the eye, but I don't think his football would be as ugly as its been recently with us, or as ugly as it was to the end of the Trap era.
He has a serious opinion of himself granted, but he has achieved relative success with modest groups of players generally, and you know he'd go to whatever lengths required to be a success. If he was on a decent wage, with a massive bonus to qualify, I wouldn't be unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

The training facilities they had in Japan were second to none. The idea of Saipan was some relaxation prior to the training. It was a pre-training camp. I think it was Ray Treacy's idea - probably benefitting him financially. It's crazy that you'd add extra flights and miles - it's not as if there's nowhere in Japan you can't relax a bit. But it was clear from the Sunderland testimonial that Keane had demons in his head. The press knew it too which is why they were all itching to get the interview. I wouldn't judge McCarthy's candidacy on a bad decision not to go straight to Japan myself. It was 16 years ago and he's been through a lot since then. The game has changed a lot too and he has been up close to it through this time, only being out of work since late last season.

Beyond that, I'm not sure he's a bluffer. He has achieved quite a bit with limited resources. I suspect he is somewhat limited himself. I think he gets the basics right but isn't a master tactician or a visionary coach. He's more of a leader but a leader who actually does work on the training ground.

Kilbane was on OTB last night saying he'd have more immediate impact than Kenny simply because of the effect he'd have on the players and the aura he has. Unfortunately the 2020 Euros changes the context quite a lot. I'd be all for giving Kenny a 4 year contract with a wide remit and to tell him that he'll be judged over the longer term and on a variety of measures, but that's not going to happen. I see McCarthy as being capable of getting the team's mojo back quickly. A sugar rush that may wear off but that's probably more of what we need. I think Mick could also be charged with developing a succession plan via the U21s and Kilbane agreed that he's not just a "senior team only" man.

It's a tough one really. My heart says Kenny, my head says McCarthy. I'm intrigued by McDermott or Cook. In due course I really think Reid and Carsley will have a role to play. Either of these could be Mick's assistant on day one.

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The problem I see with trying to have a succession plan with the assistant lined up to move up to the top job is very much dependent on success. If we had qualified for the World Cup and gone reasonably well and Martin had decided to retire Roy would have most certainly have stepped up to top job . So succession only works if you bring success. If Mick had a terrible 4 years all his coaching team would be tarnished and there would be no chance the annointed successor would get given the chance to step up

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Originally Posted by liamoo11

The problem I see with trying to have a succession plan with the assistant lined up to move up to the top job is very much dependent on success. If we had qualified for the World Cup and gone reasonably well and Martin had decided to retire Roy would have most certainly have stepped up to top job . So succession only works if you bring success. If Mick had a terrible 4 years all his coaching team would be tarnished and there would be no chance the annointed successor would get given the chance to step up

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The problem with a succession plan - one that is known in advance - is that it puts the man at the top under serious pressure from the get-go, more pressure than is needed when time is required to bed in. We're not known for our knee-jerk reactions :-| , so I can only imagine what would happen if a couple of losses paired with a meteoric improvement in fortune for the 21s occurred.

Honestly, people are remembering Mick as some kind of messiah. He was happy to sit on 1-0 leads or hold out for the 0-0, only for it to fall apart. 1-0 up in Skopje, he froze, hoping we'd hold out for the win. Goran Straveski scores, and we miss out on direct qualification for Euro 2000. It was when Roy Keane led from the pitch that we didn't roll over. Mick was happy with the 2-2 draw in Amsterdam. Roy was incensed that we had thrown away a 2-0 lead.

In the return match, we were down to 10 men after Gary Kelly was sent off. Kelly was being torn up all afternoon and was already on a yellow. Why did he wait so long to bring on Finnan (the better player, but Gary Kelly was friends with Mick)? Anyway, we only needed the 0-0 and we were as good as in the playoffs, but the Dutch always looked like they were going to score. But one of our players was having none of that, leading from the front and charging up the pitch with the ball. That was Roy's doing, not Mick's.

Indo and Examiner are carrying the line that it will be Mick McCarthy as manager with one or both of Carsley and Robbie Keane as assistants and Stephen Kenny has been sounded out for the under 21 job. One sticking point appears to be Kenny is more keen on the senior role.

Messiah? I thought I was being very balanced in my assessment of him, which includes his subsequent 15 years in club management.

And nobody is denying Keane's extraordinary influence on the pitch.

I'm veering towards Mick over Kenny, but it's a low-conviction call. I could be persuaded by a progressive non-Irish candidate but not an old school English manager.

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Stephen Kenny has been sounded out for the under 21 job. One sticking point appears to be Kenny is more keen on the senior role.

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Stephen Kenny should tell them to stick it.

FAI have got to be joking about appointing McCarthy! #AmatuerHour

I love the quality of debate on this site. Keep it up Cathal, I'm gripped.

I would love to know if the FAI have any particular criteria they are looking for, a list of specific strengths which match the squad needs for example, or similar criterion...or is just whether somebody is 'good enough' or not.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Honestly, people are remembering Mick as some kind of messiah. He was happy to sit on 1-0 leads or hold out for the 0-0, only for it to fall apart. 1-0 up in Skopje, he froze, hoping we'd hold out for the win. Goran Straveski scores, and we miss out on direct qualification for Euro 2000. It was when Roy Keane led from the pitch that we didn't roll over. Mick was happy with the 2-2 draw in Amsterdam. Roy was incensed that we had thrown away a 2-0 lead.

In the return match, we were down to 10 men after Gary Kelly was sent off. Kelly was being torn up all afternoon and was already on a yellow. Why did he wait so long to bring on Finnan (the better player, but Gary Kelly was friends with Mick)? Anyway, we only needed the 0-0 and we were as good as in the playoffs, but the Dutch always looked like they were going to score. But one of our players was having none of that, leading from the front and charging up the pitch with the ball. That was Roy's doing, not Mick's.

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I think a lot of what you're saying about Mick is fair. What I'd say is that on paper we shouldn't have qualified for Euro 2000,World Cup 2002 or Euro 2004, due to the calibre of the teams we were playing. People forget that Yugoslavia and Croatia had smashing squads; we derservedly beat both at home, and while Belgrade wasn't bad, it was obvious we had no intention of trying to win, whereas Zagreb was a shocker of a performance and we got what we deserved.
Same with the next group. Portugal and Holland both had teams capable of winning the world cup. To qualify ahead of either, undefeated, with a record points haul was magnificent, and that's not luck (well maybe a touch against Netherlands).

Unfrotunately, despite people being unwilling to admit it, the Russian team and Swiss team that we faced were both very good, and underrated. Cfdh_edmundho would be the guy to confirm this, but that Russian team played good football, and had at the time, some of the best rated players in central and eastern Europe. Ignashevich, Semak, Aldonin, Loskov, Gusev, Karayaka and Bestchastnyk all were very good footballers. not to mention the likes of Kerzhakov who was in superb form at the time. If you compare like for like, it was by no means an easy group for us. I had to go back and check this, to try and remember what they did at Euro 2004. Lost by a goal to Spain, well-beaten by Russia, and then beat Greece, the eventual champions....the only team to do so in the competition.

Same for Switzerland. You could argue that it was that campaign that their star begin to shine in terms of consistent performances in qualifying campaigns which has continued to now. In Hakin Yakin, they had a player that we just didn't have, and couldn't control. They had a solid spine and we didn't give them enough respect.

Mick had many faults and you rightly point out that he wasn't a messiah. But he inherited an absolute ****-show, moulded a team together with 3 years and put two of our best qualification performances together back-to-back. Whether he coincided over a golden generation of footballers or not is for other people to judge; I would say that he got the most from a talented group of 13/14 footballers.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I would love to know if the FAI have any particular criteria they are looking for, a list of specific strengths which match the squad needs for example, or similar criterion...or is just whether somebody is 'good enough' or not.

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This in theory is where the rude docter should be earning his stripes.

McCarthy at this point would be a backward step , might rouse the lads initially but it will tail off

Partnerships to consider , with the view that the assistant would be groomed to take over the rains in the longer term

Kenny / with Carsley or Cunningham
Rednapp / Keane - together at Spurs
Allardyce / Duff - together at Newcastle for a short spell

really like the idea of Kenny coming in and being brave and bold in the manor we approach games

TBH - Allardyce would not be a disaster for me , he knows how to set teams up to be difficult to beat , they are organised have a system and players will know exactly whats expected of them , sort the defence first then build on from there. Think he has attracted a lot of unjustified stick over the years.

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Originally Posted by Dunners

McCarthy at this point would be a backward step , might rouse the lads initially but it will tail off

Partnerships to consider , with the view that the assistant would be groomed to take over the rains in the longer term

Kenny / with Carsley or Cunningham
Rednapp / Keane - together at Spurs
Allardyce / Duff - together at Newcastle for a short spell

really like the idea of Kenny coming in and being brave and bold in the manor we approach games

TBH - Allardyce would not be a disaster for me , he knows how to set teams up to be difficult to beat , they are organised have a system and players will know exactly whats expected of them , sort the defence first then build on from there. Think he has attracted a lot of unjustified stick over the years.

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you say this about McCarthy "might rouse the lads initially but it will tail off" and then go on to suggest Rednapp who has done nothing of note in many years???

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Messiah? I thought I was being very balanced in my assessment of him, which includes his subsequent 15 years in club management.

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Well, no, but what people are saying is that Mick will come in and get the players motivated.

But we just sacked somebody who was getting two million a year. We appointed him because he would come in and get the players motivated. And that manager achieved much more as a club manager than Mick ever did.

So why would Mick be a step forward over MON? I don't get it. Seems that we would be repeating the same mistakes.

Remember, this is Mick who thought that practising penalties was rubbish. Sounds familiar to MON in that respect.

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Originally Posted by Dunners

McCarthy at this point would be a backward step , might rouse the lads initially but it will tail off

Partnerships to consider , with the view that the assistant would be groomed to take over the rains in the longer term

Kenny / with Carsley or Cunningham
Rednapp / Keane - together at Spurs
Allardyce / Duff - together at Newcastle for a short spell

really like the idea of Kenny coming in and being brave and bold in the manor we approach games

TBH - Allardyce would not be a disaster for me , he knows how to set teams up to be difficult to beat , they are organised have a system and players will know exactly whats expected of them , sort the defence first then build on from there. Think he has attracted a lot of unjustified stick over the years.

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Wenger / Brady - together in electric dreams...

Yes. I don't particularly like Allardyce. But he is known for studying videos and using technology. There is at least some method to his approach.

Mick and MON are very much the old school managers who couldn't be bothered with all that carry on.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Unfrotunately, despite people being unwilling to admit it, the Russian team and Swiss team that we faced were both very good, and underrated. Cfdh_edmundho would be the guy to confirm this, but that Russian team played good football, and had at the time, some of the best rated players in central and eastern Europe. Ignashevich, Semak, Aldonin, Loskov, Gusev, Karayaka and Bestchastnyk all were very good footballers. not to mention the likes of Kerzhakov who was in superb form at the time. If you compare like for like, it was by no means an easy group for us. I had to go back and check this, to try and remember what they did at Euro 2004. Lost by a goal to Spain, well-beaten by Russia, and then beat Greece, the eventual champions....the only team to do so in the competition.

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You could say that they beat themselves.

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Mick had many faults and you rightly point out that he wasn't a messiah. But he inherited an absolute ****-show, moulded a team together with 3 years and put two of our best qualification performances together back-to-back. Whether he coincided over a golden generation of footballers or not is for other people to judge; I would say that he got the most from a talented group of 13/14 footballers.

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You could argue that MON did better to get an even more limited group of footballers to Euro 2016 and out of the group stages... Beating Germany, Bosnia and Italy along the way.

So once again, I don't see how Mick is an upgrade over MON.