Robbie Keane

Okay TOWK, you're finally getting somewhere. I don't think anyone here would say that Robbie is a guaranteed starter anymore, especially against the top sides where we'll more than likely have to play 4-5-1 or some variant with a striker who is a little younger than Robbie.

With regards his walking away comment, yes he did say as quoted in 2011 but he was asked to clear it up last year and he did, he said was that he would walk away when the manager had no use for him anymore, in that he had no problem playing until he wasn't being called up.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/robb...-29755390.html

With regard Robbie not scoring against the top sides, well my personal opinion is that he scored more than anyone else. The reason he didn't score more wasn't a Robbie Keane problem, it was an Irish team problem. Against good sides, Robbie like most stikers that he's similiar to, needs to be surrounded by good players in order to convert chances. There are other goalscorers like Messi, Suarez, Ronaldo, Van Persie who will score against anyone because they are capable of creating chances out of nothing. Robbie was rarely that sort of striker, but that's not an indictment of him as a footballer. It takes all sorts to make teams. To criticise Robbie for not scoring more goals is extremely harsh. There's no evidence that any other player would of scored more. A quick look at Shevchenkos international goals shows a similiar pattern to Robbie, yet he's worshipped in his home country and rightly so. There are probably loads of other examples. I hope when Robbie is gone and we struggle to score against the Faroe Islands and go scoreless against the top sides consistently that people will finally appreciate Robbie.

TOWK - could you confirm a couple of things for me, im just interested - where in Ireland are you from and what team(s) do you support?

Weighing up his performances against top 3 standard teams, I don't think his goalscoring record is good enough to warrant a guaranteed start anymore. Even in the Sweden game, he was completely ineffective apart from the goal. I think we have to start thinking about how to utilise players like Hoolahan, Reid, Ireland, Pilkington, Brady, McClean, McGeady, Stokes and Long effectively.

We need to figure out a way to get more goals all over the pitch. Pilkington, McClean and Reid for example are all capable of scoring goals.

As I keep saying, the ideal scenario would be to use Keane as a bench option for the games against the top seeds and go with e.g. Gibson, McCarthy and Reid in midfield behind Long.

This is the root issue at the end of the day, if that day comes, will Keane be willing to sit on the bench?

I don't see how he could complain. He had the option of moving to a European giant in Besiktas and competing against teams like Galatasaray, Trabzonspor and Fenerbahce and competing in the Europa League/Champions League but he took the option of moving to Los Angeles. So, you can't say the level he is playing against is anywhere near good enough. And ad nauseum, nor are his performances against direct rivals.

Not sure has it been mentioned but Shane Long has scored only one competitive international goal at the age of 27.

That says plenty.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Not sure has it been mentioned but Shane Long has scored only one competitive international goal at the age of 27.

That says plenty.

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He's 27 years old as opposed to 34 years old. He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts. He's also, crucially, playing well for Ireland. How many competitive games has he even started for Ireland anyway? Trapattoni had a bizarre infatuation with starting inferior players like Caleb Folan, Leon Best, Simon Cox and Jon Walters ahead of him.

You could play Keane in to his forties or you could try and look to the future.

Age waits for no man.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

As I keep saying, the ideal scenario would be to use Keane as a bench option for the games against the top seeds and go with e.g. Gibson, McCarthy and Reid in midfield behind Long.

This is the root issue at the end of the day, if that day comes, will Keane be willing to sit on the bench?

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Okay, well this little discussion that's being centred around you the last few days had nothing to do with those two points. It all started when you said Robbie only scores against small nations. Since that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, and clearly nobody else agrees with you, we'll move on from it.

Do people think Robbie should start a September qualifier at home against the Netherlands for example. And do people think that if he's dropped for a game similiar to that, he'll walk away as TOWK is suggesting?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He's 27 years old as opposed to 34 years old. He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts. He's also, crucially, playing well for Ireland. How many competitive games has he even started for Ireland anyway? Trapattoni had a bizarre infatuation with starting inferior players like Caleb Folan, Leon Best, Simon Cox and Jon Walters ahead of him.

You could play Keane in to his forties or you could try and look to the future.

Age waits for no man.

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I don't think anyone said Keane should be starting ahead of Long? In fact nobody has even argued that Keane should be starting all the time. It'd be harsh to compare Shane at 27 against Robbie at 27 because Robbie was such a better player than Shane between 17 and 25. Shane for his part has started in 6 competitive games for Ireland and hasn't scored in any of them.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Okay, well this little discussion that's being centred around you the last few days had nothing to do with those two points. It all started when you said Robbie only scores against small nations. Since that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, and clearly nobody else agrees with you, we'll move on from it.

Do people think Robbie should start a September qualifier at home against the Netherlands for example. And do people think that if he's dropped for a game similiar to that, he'll walk away as TOWK is suggesting?

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The discussion is not centered around me. It's centered around Robbie Keane.

I said Robbie only scores against small nations and I provided statistics which don't exactly make a mockery of what I said.

"Since that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, and clearly nobody else agrees with you, we'll move on from it." Is there really any need for that?

In response to the final paragraph, I would be very curious to see what would happen if that hypothesis came to fruition. In my opinion, I would not grant Keane a start on merit.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He's 27 years old as opposed to 34 years old. He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts. He's also, crucially, playing well for Ireland. How many competitive games has he even started for Ireland anyway? Trapattoni had a bizarre infatuation with starting inferior players like Caleb Folan, Leon Best, Simon Cox and Jon Walters ahead of him.

You could play Keane in to his forties or you could try and look to the future.

Age waits for no man.

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That's grand and all. But if Shane Long took a few of the many excellent opportunities to score over the past year, then none of us would be having this discussion. The debate only exists because these Robbie replacements just don't have what a diminished figure like Keane still has.

We don't need workhorses or potential - we need goals. Down to you Shane.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He's playing and playing well in the Premier League though and averaging 1 goal in every 3 starts.

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If by playing well you mean he's running around a lot and not scoring many goals. We had five years under Trap of Kevin Doyle running around a lot and not scoring many goals. That type of player is certainly useful, but if you don't have goals coming from other areas of the pitch, they're not particularly conducive to winning football matches. Assuming our game plan for the next 2+ years is something a little more evolved than Trap's philosophy of running around a lot and not scoring many goals.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

If by playing well you mean he's running around a lot and not scoring many goals. We had five years under Trap of Kevin Doyle running around a lot and not scoring many goals. That type of player is certainly useful, but if you don't have goals coming from other areas of the pitch, they're not particularly conducive to winning football matches. Assuming our game plan for the next 2+ years is something a little more evolved than Trap's philosophy of running around a lot and not scoring many goals.

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Well, we can knock Doyle and Long but without them we would have been virtually out of the running for Brazil 2014 after one match.

You're the one who knocks, pal. I'm not saying they're bad players, just that they're not goalscorers. Neither is David Forde but I'd still have him in the team. Nevertheless, we need somebody to score goals otherwise we won't win.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Well, we can knock Doyle and Long but without them we would have been virtually out of the running for Brazil 2014 after one match.

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The Kazakhstan away game? What did Long do? Doyle had a huge impact but nothing more than Keane has done time after time after time...

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

The Kazakhstan away game? What did Long do? Doyle had a huge impact but nothing more than Keane has done time after time after time...

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When Long and Doyle came on and Cox and Walters came off, it totally changed our attacking impetus. For 70 odd minutes, Kazakhstan were the better team and then Long and Doyle come on and Ireland look like a completely different team. You have Keane trying to nick a goal and win penalties and offering nothing to the overall play, you have Walters and Cox running around like headless chickens, incapable of holding up the ball, crossing the ball or even the fundamentals of controlling it. Then Doyle and Long come on and show how to cross the ball, pass the ball and retain possession; reminds you how important Long and Doyle's overall contributions are.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Robbies best XI and some other interesting info in a conversation with Kilbane for the daily mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-pressure.html
Given
Zannetti Dunne King Bale
Beckhame Keane Seedorf Gerrard Duff
Berbatov

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Zanetti

He has good taste in full backs.

Given that my question has been ignored twice now I am making the following assumption about TOWK.

1) Culchie.
2) Liverpool fan.

:)

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Given that my question has been ignored twice now I am making the following assumption about TOWK.

1) Culchie.
2) Liverpool fan.

:)

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1 out of 2 is correct. :p

I still don't see why the MLS is such a problem. I think his strike rate since he moved there is still at least as good. It keeps him fresh and used to scoring goals. I think he absolutely made the right move, for him, his family and to prolong his career.

Despite all this, I agree he shouldn't be a certain starter. His selection dictates the shape of the team, a shape that probably puts us at a disadvantage in many respects. But Long, McGeady, Hoolahan/Reid, McClean and Walters all need to start mucking in with more goals. Giroud is hardly prolific for Arsenal, but at various times this year Ramsey, Wilshere and most recently Cazorla have got the necessary goals to compensate. It's a risk to assume midfielders will continue to score enough goals though. Ireland would run a similar risk if they dropped Keane, and also run the risk of less possession if we don't.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Despite all this, I agree he shouldn't be a certain starter.

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Yeah, I don't think anybody disagrees with TOWK's opinion that Keane "shouldn't be a certain starter". I don't think anybody has a problem with him thinking Klose is a better player either. The logic and stats used to bring about these conclusions is where the crater sized holes can be picked.

I really hate when I don't quote and my post goes on to a new page.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I really hate when I don't quote and my post goes on to a new page.

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I hate when you do that too. I had to go back. And then I ended up reading the whole page to figure out the context.

You are the worst. Now stand in that corner.

So really, even if I had quoted, you would have still had to go back and read the whole page to figure out the context. I don't feel so bad now.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I really hate when I don't quote and my post goes on to a new page.

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Instead of the self hate, the public exhibition and possibly embarking upon a lifelong path of self destruction, you could just have quoted the relevant post, then edited yours to make it look like you had quoted to begin with.

Yeah I know. It's just it was three hours later that I noticed it had gone on to a new page so I thought it was pointless doing so at that stage. I suppose it's never too late though so I have now amended my post. It's more a hate for the circumstance I found myself in, more than an actual hatred for myself really. I didn't quote as I thought it would appear directly underneath, it would have been a bit harsh to beat myself up too much about that... even if I do say so myself.

On a similar theme, how does one share a link but rewrite the actual link so that it looks a bit better? The way I do it, and it only works properly on Internet Explorer, is:

Copy & paste the link
Highlight it
Type what I want to appear without any spaces
Use my back arrow key to go back through the words and make the spaces at this point*
Submit the post

*If I type spaces in the first place the rest of the link reverts to regular text


This doesn't work for me on Firefox, etc and I'm sure there has to be a better way?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Yeah, I don't think anybody disagrees with TOWK's opinion that Keane "shouldn't be a certain starter". I don't think anybody has a problem with him thinking Klose is a better player either. The logic and stats used to bring about these conclusions is where the crater sized holes can be picked.

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I don't think I am being hard on Keane. He averages 1 goal - if that - a campaign against the top 3 seeds. We don't qualify for many tournaments and when we do (Euro 2012) his record still wasn't pulling up trees and we qualified in spite of ourselves. If his record was better against top 3 standard teams, that could have been the difference between qualifying and not qualifying. Fair enough. It's not just Keane's fault but he is the focal point of the team and has been for over a decade. If we were failing to qualify because we were leaking soft goals, I would judge the defender's on similar merits.

Someone compared his International record to Shevchenko. I think that's a bit of a stretch now. Even at 35, Shevchenko was one of the most impressive players at Euro 2012 in my opinion. Even when he started faltering in his final season/s at Milan and Chelsea, he still looked like a top class player for Ukraine (World Cup 2006). And Ukraine have improved dramatically in recent years but the difference in talent between Shevchenko and his teammates for a lot of years was a lot more noticeable than the difference between Keane and his teammates.

As Stutts said, I think O'Neill has a job trying to incorporate Keane into a 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation.

We can't keep playing 4-4-2. The last two years under Trapattoni was a joke that kept giving and giving and giving.

Just as an addendum, I'm not knocking Keane. I just don't think anyone is exempt from scrutiny.

Change the flipping record. You've made your point a dozen times. People have responded a dozen times that it's harder to score against big teams. Everyone agrees that Keane is best suited to 442 and what implications that has.

I can think of some bad misses against the bigger teams, granted: Germany home at Croker, Czechs at home at Lansdowne and Slovakia at home but that doesn't really change anything. None affected group outcomes.

Shevchenko missed a late sitter against Liverpool in Istanbul and bottled his penalty. Does he have it for the big games? By your logic probably not. If Shevchenko was playing instead of Keane in Poland I bet he'd have barely got a sniff of the ball either.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

On a similar theme, how does one share a link but rewrite the actual link so that it looks a bit better? The way I do it, and it only works properly on Internet Explorer, is:

Copy & paste the link
Highlight it
Type what I want to appear without any spaces
Use my back arrow key to go back through the words and make the spaces at this point*
Submit the post

*If I type spaces in the first place the rest of the link reverts to regular text


This doesn't work for me on Firefox, etc and I'm sure there has to be a better way?

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Is this the 'how to retag a link' question?
turn this
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robbi...20333864733893
into this?
Robbie Keane fanclub

That's exactly what it is. Like I say, I can do it in a pretty cumbersome way. Nice move with the example link.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

That's exactly what it is. Like I say, I can do it in a pretty cumbersome way. Nice move with the example link.

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You gotta keep the thread on track :)
I can explain, but I forgot how confusing it can be to explain. One needs a method of explaining.

In the reply window if you do not have automatic wysiwyg mode then you have to manually select it.
You do that by switching editor to source mode, a/A icon on left.

probably your browser doesn't allow automatic wysiwyg mode.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Change the flipping record. You've made your point a dozen times. People have responded a dozen times that it's harder to score against big teams. Everyone agrees that Keane is best suited to 442 and what implications that has.

I can think of some bad misses against the bigger teams, granted: Germany home at Croker, Czechs at home at Lansdowne and Slovakia at home but that doesn't really change anything. None affected group outcomes.

Shevchenko missed a late sitter against Liverpool in Istanbul and bottled his penalty. Does he have it for the big games? By your logic probably not. If Shevchenko was playing instead of Keane in Poland I bet he'd have barely got a sniff of the ball either.

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Exactly. When the centre of midfield is struggling (as it has been for over a decade now), obviously wingers and strikers are going to operate more on the periphery of games and struggle for decent ball. Particularly strikers. It's a huge pity that when Keane and Duff were in the prime of their careers and tearing it up with Spurs and Chelsea, it was during the phase when we often had the likes of Jon Douglas, Graham Kavanagh, a past-it Matt Holland, and Kilbane and O'Shea out-of-position in central midfield for big games. Blaming our travails between 2002 and 2012 solely on Keane is terribly unfair and smacks of a pathological dislike for Keane as a character, rather than an objective appraisal of him as an international striker.

Pour scorn on him for scoring against the likes of Cyprus and Georgia if you like, but we would have dropped seven points in three games against them in 2008/9 if not for Keane's contribution - and another four points in the two Macedonia games in 2011. And that's just off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by geysir

You gotta keep the thread on track :)
I can explain, but I forgot how confusing it can be to explain. One needs a method of explaining.

In the reply window if you do not have automatic wysiwyg mode then you have to manually select it.
You do that by switching editor to source mode, a/A icon on left.

probably your browser doesn't allow automatic wysiwyg mode.

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Okay, once I've switched editor to source... I then click on the link icon and c&p my link in there? How do I change the way the link it displayed? What would Robbie Keane do?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Okay, once I've switched editor to source... I then click on the link icon and c&p my link in there? How do I change the way the link it displayed? What would Robbie Keane do?

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In these matters, Robbie glides along on instinct, us mere mortals have to plod a different path, in the mire of our darkness.

After you have pasted the link in the little window (Please enter the URL of your link) select OK and you are back to the body of the reply where the link is now visible.
Zoom in on the 2nd url, in between the second parentheses ] and [/URL]
and simply replace that url with the text of your description and that text becomes the hyperlink.

Excellent, that works!

http://www.playerireland.ie/wp-conte...bie-Keane1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Exactly. When the centre of midfield is struggling (as it has been for over a decade now), obviously wingers and strikers are going to operate more on the periphery of games and struggle for decent ball. Particularly strikers. It's a huge pity that when Keane and Duff were in the prime of their careers and tearing it up with Spurs and Chelsea, it was during the phase when we often had the likes of Jon Douglas, Graham Kavanagh, a past-it Matt Holland, and Kilbane and O'Shea out-of-position in central midfield for big games. Blaming our travails between 2002 and 2012 solely on Keane is terribly unfair and smacks of a pathological dislike for Keane as a character, rather than an objective appraisal of him as an international striker.

Pour scorn on him for scoring against the likes of Cyprus and Georgia if you like, but we would have dropped seven points in three games against them in 2008/9 if not for Keane's contribution - and another four points in the two Macedonia games in 2011. And that's just off the top of my head.

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That's fair enough but I actually complimented Keane on his ability to score against teams like Cyprus and Georgia but people seem to be mistaking it for derision. I would start Keane against those teams if it was up to me. I doubted the merits of starting a 34 year old Keane against teams on the level of Slovakia, Italy and Russia. 4 years ago he would have walked into the team but his performances have been declining and he never really looks like scoring. So it's not an agenda. It's purely strategical and tactical. What is the best way to approach games on their merits against i.e. France and what are the best ways to accommodate Pilkington, Ireland, Reid, Hoolahan, O'Kane, Long, Stokes, Brady and the myriad options we have.

v France, Germany, Slovakia; Keane may be a peripheral figure and may go the entire game without having a shot on goal. He's not/no longer sharp enough to take advantage of a goalscoring opportunity on 75 minutes after being neutralised for the preceding hour and 15 minutes.

v Faroe Islands, Cyprus, Georgia; Keane thrives against these defenders. Even at 34, he may have lost a yard of pace but his mental sharpness and experience still gives him the edge to net goals against these opposition.

http://ladonasmusicstudio.files.word...ken_record.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geysir

In these matters, Robbie glides along on instinct, us mere mortals have to plod a different path, in the mire of our darkness.

After you have pasted the link in the little window (Please enter the URL of your link) select OK and you are back to the body of the reply where the link is now visible.
Zoom in on the 2nd url, in between the second parentheses ] and [/URL]
and simply replace that url with the text of your description and that text becomes the hyperlink.

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Jebus, complicated or what!
1. Type out the text e.g Click here for story
2. Highlight that text
3. Click the link button (Little Globe with a chain link bottom right)
4. Paste your link in there and hit Ok.
Done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Jebus, complicated or what!
1. Type out the text e.g Click here for story
2. Highlight that text
3. Click the link button (Little Globe with a chain link bottom right)
4. Paste your link in there and hit Ok.
Done.

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Much better.
Some browsers don't allow for that.

Nice one, they'll both be useful. Think Geysir's way might work better on my phone as highlighting can be awkward.

Robbie's game has always been about quickness upstairs, not at his feet. That and his instincts and movement.

I don't feel any of this has diminished in recent years, despite his move to MLS, and feel if he returned to England with a top 10 team would continue to score goals at a rate he did in his so-called "prime."

Additionally, I think MLS has benefitted him in that he has had to take more responsibility on than ever before -- while he's generally been looked at as a central player wherever he has played, the focus on him as an individual has never been greater. With only three designated players (at most) on each MLS team, all of the energy from opponents is on shutting him down, in a way that would never happen in a top league like England's.

In my view, dropping him would not improve us as there aren't two strikers of superior quality -- in fact, there isn't one individual striker better than Keane we have available IMO.

His strike rate in our last campaign shows he's still got it -- I expect him to start and contribute for this next campaign, and he can likely at least come off the bench if he still wants to for our WC 2018 campaign.

I feel like I've been making posts along these lines for the better part of half a decade, and at some point Father Time will force me to change my tune, but Robbie's still got it and is still our best option up top.

Shay Given. Only kept clean sheets against the small teams.