FAI Cup 2018

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Originally Posted by wonder88

Cork really overpowered Bohs in the first half. Home side much the better team for me tonight. Good to see a decent crowd at a LoI match, combined with that goal it gives a good image of our game.

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Actually quite a small crowd according to the Cork "declared" gate.Shy of about 15 k € at least.FAI agreed their figure and Bohs get shafted out of €5 k.Are things so bad financially down there or is it just the usual corrupt stuff? Bohs officials were freaking out but Cork had the FAI to back their crowd "figure".
As for the match, Bohs couldn't deal with howitzers up the pitch from McNulty and our midfield didn't show up.
Marginally the better team 2nd half but carrying too many underperforming players.
Could see it was a goal from our end but doubt Doyle would have given it if the lino hadn't intervened.
Sheppard had to be restrained by another Cork player from going down the Bohs end to goad fans after the game..Remarkable recovery for him as he could really have hurt himself with that dive at the end.
Great away support and well stewarded by Guards and TC security.

I have it even longer but even at .03% it is still in the 33000 to 1 that Cork and Dundalk would each win 16 match's in a row (exc finals obviously) and then avoid each other in the draw.
Its mad Ted.

"We didn’t deal with the threats Cork in the first half and we know all about them. It’s quite direct and functional"

"It’s very, very basic and quite agricultural from back to front. They pick up second balls and have runners off them. We didn’t defend the ball in the air and the runners off it. It’s quite direct and functional. We weren’t surprised by it. We expected it, but just couldn’t deal with it."

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018...cultural-cork/

I thought Bohs dealt very well with Cork's long punting of the ball in previous games between the sides. However, last night they couldn't deal with the aerial bombardment. Was the strong wind a factor?

Not that Cork will care, four consecutive finals is a great achievement.

"It’s very, very basic"

So why didn't you deal with it Keith?

We comprehensively outplayed Bohs in the first half in every department. It pretty sour from Long to say otherwise. Played some direct stuff but mixed it up well and played in the Bohs half - pressured them high up the pitch as well never gave them a sniff - they had no answer.

But the wind did play a part in that and Bohs were always going to have more of it in the second. The wind played a part in the Bohs goal as well. No way he scores that going the other way.

Last night was a terrific response to the last few weeks. Manager , players , fans all stepped up and last night there was a terrific atmosphere in the ground. We will need 90 mins of that and some next month. However this is a squad with plenty of experience with no fear of Dundalk so while we will be underdogs we will go up there with some hope.

Fair play to the Bohs travelling support - a huge number for a Monday night and they contributed to the atmosphere. I'm looking forward to watching it back tonight.

As for the crowd - I would have said maybe 4,500 definitely not more than that - maybe a few hundred freebies brings it down to the 4,119 . There is no way we would fiddle gate money for the sake of what 1,500 quid? Not for me.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

We comprehensively outplayed Bohs in the first half in every department. It pretty sour from Long to say otherwise.

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Did he say otherwise?

All the quotes I have read from him acknowledged that they failed to handle the first half tactical approach from Cork

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

As for the crowd - I would have said maybe 4,500 definitely not more than that - maybe a few hundred freebies brings it down to the 4,119 . There is no way we would fiddle gate money for the sake of what 1,500 quid? Not for me.

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Its well established that Cork are disinterested in the odd €1,500 here or there, but the allegation earlier was that the amount involved was multiples of that

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Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

Actually quite a small crowd according to the Cork "declared" gate.Shy of about 15 k € at least.FAI agreed their figure and Bohs get shafted out of €5 k.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Its well established that Cork are disinterested in the odd €1,500 here or there, but the allegation earlier was that the amount involved was multiples of that

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The allegation was based on a fantastical number. There was no more than 4,500 at the game.

Edit. Read it wrong.

15k extra means that at an average cost of ticket €12 then the attendance was actually 5,450 - what the basis for that figure is - is any ones guess.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Did he say otherwise?

All the quotes I have read from him acknowledged that they failed to handle the first half tactical approach from Cork

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He didn't way they were outplayed , he said they couldn't handle the long ball and were nervous. Fact is we completely outplayed them - long ball , short ball, on the wings and in the middle. The Agricultural jibe is sour.

Just to clarify the maths:
Round 1, 32 teams. 31 possible opponents. 30/31 chance of avoiding each other, i.e. 96.8%.
Round 2, 16 teams. 15 possible opponents. 14/15 chance of avoiding each other. 93.3%. Chances of avoiding each other in round 1 and round 2 is 93.3% of 96.8%, i.e. 90.3%
QF, 8 teams, 7 possible opponents. 6/7 chance of avoiding each other, 85.6%. Chance of avoiding each other in first 3 rounds = 96.8% x 93.3% x 85.6% = 80%
Semis, 4 team, 3 possible opponents, 66.7% chance of avoiding each other. So overall a 57.1% chance of avoiding each other for a season.
Four seasons in a row that's 57.1% x 57.1% x 57.1% x 57.1%, a 10.7% chance. Unlikely, but hardly significant.

There's no need to make an assumption that there's a 90% chance of each club progressing, or anything else, we know there's a 100% chance that each club progressed each time as we're looking at past data.

It’s a mildly interesting phenomenon only because of the current Dundalk-Cork duopoly. It is considerably less noteworthy than the fact that Shamrock Rovers have never played Bray Wanderers in the FAI Cup, and UCD have never played Athlone. Neither of which are significant either.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

He didn't way they were outplayed , he said they couldn't handle the long ball and were nervous. Fact is we completely outplayed them - long ball , short ball, on the wings and in the middle. The Agricultural jibe is sour.

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If that is an acknowledgement that your earlier post was incorrect, I applaud you for it.

It was obvious to anyone watching, including Keith Long, that Cork dominated Bohs in the first half. The Cork work-rate and closing down of the opposition players all over the pitch was impressive

While I can understand some Cork fans being sensitive to the "agricultural" description, the Caulfield reliance on route one, long ball is well established - as you know your fellow Cork fans have been complaining about it on the Cork forum for some time, and some have even used the agricultural term to describe it. It was effective last night, hence Keith Longs frustration

In terms of contemplating how unlikely it is that the two teams would get to 4 finals in a row you have to consider the likelihood of them winning 16 rounds each as part of the spectrum of "unlikelihood"
I actually think the credit both teams deserve for winning 16 cup rounds is diluted by the perception that it is just the luck of the draw that has kept them apart.
It is an unbelievable achievement and is a thousands to one shot of ever happening again.
If you asked Paddypower to give you odds on predicting the next 4 cup winners it would be in the range of 75 to 1 minimum and that would be if the favourite won every year at 3 to 1.
I might be tired of it but I recognise it as an unbelievable achievement

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

"It’s very, very basic"

So why didn't you deal with it Keith?

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Dan Casey was badly missed last night to deal with Cork's hoofball tactics. Bohs youth & lack of experience played a factor last week and last night as they looked nervous in the 1st halves of both games and left themselves too much to do in the 2nd half last night.

While dundalk are not as goods this season as some of their previous title winning sides, they are still by far the best team in the league this year. Bohs would have been unlikely to win the final, but it would have been a great day out for the club and Bohs would have brought a big crowd thanks to all the work that has been done in the community by the club in the last few years.

Instead we have year 4 of Dundalk v Cork. I would encourage supporters to buy upper tier tickets for the final. It will make it easier on their necks watching Cork fire long high balls up the pitch.

Finally a word on Karl Sheppard. Is there a more spiteful, diving, horrible player or person in the league. His side has reached a cup final and he had to forcibly dragged away by his teamate to celebrate with his own fans as he wanted to "celebrate" at the bohs end.

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Originally Posted by wexfordned

Dan Casey was badly missed last night to deal with Cork's hoofball tactics. Bohs youth & lack of experience played a factor last week and last night as they looked nervous in the 1st halves of both games and left themselves too much to do in the 2nd half last night.

While dundalk are not as goods this season as some of their previous title winning sides, they are still by far the best team in the league this year. Bohs would have been unlikely to win the final, but it would have been a great day out for the club and Bohs would have brought a big crowd thanks to all the work that has been done in the community by the club in the last few years.

Instead we have year 4 of Dundalk v Cork. I would encourage supporters to buy upper tier tickets for the final. It will make it easier on their necks watching Cork fire long high balls up the pitch.

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Yawn. If you want a different final, figure out how to beat one of us. We will be at our fourth straight final enjoying our day out and hoping to bring back a third straight FAI Cup.

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Finally a word on Karl Sheppard. Is there a more spiteful, diving, horrible player or person in the league. His side has reached a cup final and he had to forcibly dragged away by his teamate to celebrate with his own fans as he wanted to "celebrate" at the bohs end.

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Karl Sheppard gets constant abuse from Bohs fans. If you can't take it from him don't give it out. Hes a legend. Look at the replies to his tweet yesterday. Dogs abuse about his hair and his rovers history. Childish stuff. You wish you had a player as good as him.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

If that is an acknowledgement that your earlier post was incorrect, I applaud you for it.

It was obvious to anyone watching, including Keith Long, that Cork dominated Bohs in the first half. The Cork work-rate and closing down of the opposition players all over the pitch was impressive

While I can understand some Cork fans being sensitive to the "agricultural" description, the Caulfield reliance on route one, long ball is well established - as you know your fellow Cork fans have been complaining about it on the Cork forum for some time, and some have even used the agricultural term to describe it. It was effective last night, hence Keith Longs frustration

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Its one thing reading it on a football forum - another for a manager to say it. I thought it was unfair anyway, definitely sour of of him as well. Frustrated or not. His frustrations should have been to his own players. Its all well and good playing nice football in front of 1,500 people in a half empty dilapidated stadium - another thing to do it in the pressure cooker atmosphere last was night. Maybe Long should address that before having a cut off us for the way we are perceived to play. His own team didn't get a kick.

I just don't really understand why Cork make things so difficult for themselves at times. There's a difference between a more direct but high and quick pressing game where men get forward and voluntarily limited "hoofball" and they were comfortably the better team doing the former last night only to descend into the latter and ended up looking a bit desperate against an inferior team on the night.

I understand that it can be difficult to maintain over the course of 90 minutes but the manner in which they retreat into their shell so often just seems unnecessary to me and invites easily avoidable danger. I don't think you can bemoan a team's style of play if it's working but in Cork's case they're managing to barely make it work when it could be far more comfortable.

There was a section of the St Annes End closed to put a barrier between the home and away fans, and there were a good few empty seats on the City side of it - It has a capacity of 2,720. I don't think it's a stretch to say it was half empty. Then you had empty seats in the other stands. I think this idea we downplayed the attendance is nonsense tbh.

And Shepp takes plenty of abuse from Bohs fans - they can't whinge when it's reflected back to them.

Great first half from us, if we can do that again in the Aviva we'll be in with a shout against a very good Dundalk side who will rightly be favourites.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Yawn. If you want a different final, figure out how to beat one of us. We will be at our fourth straight final enjoying our day out and hoping to bring back a third straight FAI Cup.


Karl Sheppard gets constant abuse from Bohs fans. If you can't take it from him don't give it out. Hes a legend. Look at the replies to his tweet yesterday. Dogs abuse about his hair and his rovers history. Childish stuff. You wish you had a player as good as him.

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Sheppard wouldn't fit in to the bohs dressing room. His all about me/I'm the man attitude is in stark contrast to the team spirit in the Boh's camp. Admittedly none of our players are as good at the diving as he is.

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Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

Actually quite a small crowd according to the Cork "declared" gate.Shy of about 15 k € at least.FAI agreed their figure and Bohs get shafted out of €5 k.Are things so bad financially down there or is it just the usual corrupt stuff? Bohs officials were freaking out but Cork had the FAI to back their crowd "figure".

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Should have had your own people monitoring the home turnstiles ?

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Originally Posted by White Horse

"We didn’t deal with the threats Cork in the first half and we know all about them. It’s quite direct and functional"

"It’s very, very basic and quite agricultural from back to front. They pick up second balls and have runners off them. We didn’t defend the ball in the air and the runners off it. It’s quite direct and functional. We weren’t surprised by it. We expected it, but just couldn’t deal with it."

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018...cultural-cork/

I thought Bohs dealt very well with Cork's long punting of the ball in previous games between the sides. However, last night they couldn't deal with the aerial bombardment. Was the strong wind a factor?

Not that Cork will care, four consecutive finals is a great achievement.

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It was very windy. Seemed to blow diagonally down the pitch.
City had it in the first half.
City played some lovely football in the 1st half but it was Bohs inability to deal with two long free kicks which led to both goals.
We had a string of corners & free kicks in that first half but in fairness to Bohs they hung on in there.
Bohs came out in the second half & with the wind really put it up to us but apart from Morris's wonder strike never looked like they would score another.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Should have had your own people monitoring the home turnstiles ?

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They absolutely should. Every club should at every cup game.

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Originally Posted by wexfordned

Sheppard wouldn't fit in to the bohs dressing room. His all about me/I'm the man attitude is in stark contrast to the team spirit in the Boh's camp. Admittedly none of our players are as good at the diving as he is.

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And what about him gives you even the faintest idea he's like that at all?

What a load on nonsense

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Originally Posted by Mr A

They absolutely should. Every club should at every cup game.

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Exactly.

Also - as the FAI get a cut of gate receipts, why would they agree with a figure which wasn't accurate ? They're not exactly known for not wanting money, now, are they ?

If you're going to disagree with the attendance figure given by the home side and agreed by the FAI, then have your own people on the turnstiles to disprove it. If you're not prepared to do that, then don't cry about it with your own made up numbers.

Nerds.

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Originally Posted by wexfordned

Sheppard wouldn't fit in to the bohs dressing room. His all about me/I'm the man attitude is in stark contrast to the team spirit in the Boh's camp. Admittedly none of our players are as good at the diving as he is.

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As regards Sheppard.
Some of the abuse he has received from some Bohs fans over the past few weeks has been vile to say the least & I for one don't blame him one bit for celebrating like he did when he scored.
If you can't take it then don't give it out.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Should have had your own people monitoring the home turnstiles ?

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Admission to the ground is by ticket only & all tickets have to be accounted for whether sold or not.
All tickets coming into Turners Cross are scanned no matter what their source.
No cash is taken at the turnstiles.EVER.
There is a ticket hut on the Curragh Road where tickets can be bought as well as various premises around the city.
Long gone are the days when you could roll up & just put your money on the turnstile as you went in.
I'm not sure what its like at other LOI grounds but if you leave Turners Cross during a game you are not allowed in again.
Some of our fans had a problem with that as they couldn't go out for a half time pint :(

A few of us are going to the Cross for many years & at this stage we have a good idea of what the attendance might be.
I thought it was just about over 4k myself as there were several gaps around the ground so I wasn't far out.
If 4119 tickets were scanned last night then that was the attendance.
I actually thought there might be more at the game but then we had just over 3k at last years semi final against Limerick so maybe not such a surprise.

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Originally Posted by White Horse

I thought Bohs dealt very well with Cork's long punting of the ball in previous games between the sides. However, last night they couldn't deal with the aerial bombardment. Was the strong wind a factor?

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The absence of Dan Casey at CB would have hampered Bohs a lot. He's their best player in the air by some distance. He's a v old school CB actually, thrives on winning big headers and the physical stuff.

Dan Kelly is a massive outlet for Bohs too (as proved by their better form since he arrived) so without him they looked blunt.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

The last two finals were decent spectacles I thought. 2015 was dreadful alright.

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No coincidence that Cork lost that one and won the others.....

Maybe the endings have been dramatic but on a whole as football matches they have been poor

I was down to the Dundalk game on 21/09 and the crowd given was around 4,200. I only remember as I noted after all the fuss, it was only 100 more than the last game between the 2 at oriel park.

Last night looked to be a good bit more than the Dundalk game, I would have estimated having been there, around 4,500 min.

Decent second half by Bohs and what a strike for their goal, but Cork were def better on the night and were decent in the first half. They seem to play better without McCormack, always thinks he slows them down.

So will we see a goal for the first time in 90 mins in the cup final between the two ? Almost beside myself with the excitement already................

The Dundalk figure was inflated by non attending season ticket holders. We've been calling it out on our forum all year. We've clearly made a change to the way we announce figures this year. Probably for sponsorship reasons. Cup attendances don't have to consider ST holders so wouldn't be inflated.

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Originally Posted by wexfordned

Sheppard wouldn't fit in to the bohs dressing room. His all about me/I'm the man attitude is in stark contrast to the team spirit in the Boh's camp. Admittedly none of our players are as good at the diving as he is.

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It's bitterness like this that made winning last night even sweeter.

You're right that Shep wouldn't fit in at the Bohs' dressing room, given he would probably have more league and cup winners medals than the rest of them combined.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/article/12...8553&width=630

We're all off to Lansdowne! Agricultural football FTW! YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

In terms of contemplating how unlikely it is that the two teams would get to 4 finals in a row you have to consider the likelihood of them winning 16 rounds each as part of the spectrum of "unlikelihood"
I actually think the credit both teams deserve for winning 16 cup rounds is diluted by the perception that it is just the luck of the draw that has kept them apart.
It is an unbelievable achievement and is a thousands to one shot of ever happening again.
If you asked Paddypower to give you odds on predicting the next 4 cup winners it would be in the range of 75 to 1 minimum and that would be if the favourite won every year at 3 to 1.
I might be tired of it but I recognise it as an unbelievable achievement

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That's an entirely different thing to what we stsrted out with though- that it was a 'bizarre' sequence of draws that kept the 2 apart

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Originally Posted by Crosshead

It's bitterness like this that made winning last night even sweeter.

You're right that Shep wouldn't fit in at the Bohs' dressing room, given he would probably have more league and cup winners medals than the rest of them combined.

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Sheppard is a good player and a great servant to Cork but he gets a serious free pass from Cork fans. He shopped himself to Cork's main rivals and requested that nothing be said about it until he had left. I would not be too accepting of that from a Dundalk player. That his plans were outed and he hence changed is mind and the controversy at the time seems to have distracted away from him being quite underhanded about a move. If he was a chap of complete integrity he'd have told his manager that he was faced with a family issue and may have to move clubs. The opporrtunity to point at Kenny's poor attempt at mind games has disguised Sheppard's role in that affair. Not positive trait for a clubs player to have.

Think Sheppard is one of those players that must play at the edge of his wits to get the best out of himself and sometimes it spills over. There's definitely been times where he's given the big one to Pats supporters after games where I've been confused because (as far as I could tell, anyway) he hadn't really gotten any abuse to justify it, considering Cork usually have a couple of ex-Pats lads in there to take the brunt of it instead of him. Seems to be a bit of a common theme with him, though I am of the mind that football fans who get up in arms about this sort of thing are being a bit soft. Bohs supporters that dished out insults to him all week don't really have grounds to complain that they got a bit back, comes with the territory.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Sheppard is a good player and a great servant to Cork but he gets a serious free pass from Cork fans. He shopped himself to Cork's main rivals and requested that nothing be said about it until he had left. I would not be too accepting of that from a Dundalk player. That his plans were outed and he hence changed is mind and the controversy at the time seems to have distracted away from him being quite underhanded about a move. If he was a chap of complete integrity he'd have told his manager that he was faced with a family issue and may have to move clubs. The opporrtunity to point at Kenny's poor attempt at mind games has disguised Sheppard's role in that affair. Not positive trait for a clubs player to have.

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Still banging on about Shep? Facking hell.

I wanted Bohs to win because I support them. That's my interesting/controversial observation.

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Originally Posted by mcgonigle

No coincidence that Cork lost that one and won the others.....

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.....
Attachment 2715

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Originally Posted by seand

Just to clarify the maths:
Round 1, 32 teams. 31 possible opponents. 30/31 chance of avoiding each other, i.e. 96.8%.
Round 2, 16 teams. 15 possible opponents. 14/15 chance of avoiding each other. 93.3%. Chances of avoiding each other in round 1 and round 2 is 93.3% of 96.8%, i.e. 90.3%
QF, 8 teams, 7 possible opponents. 6/7 chance of avoiding each other, 85.6%. Chance of avoiding each other in first 3 rounds = 96.8% x 93.3% x 85.6% = 80%
Semis, 4 team, 3 possible opponents, 66.7% chance of avoiding each other. So overall a 57.1% chance of avoiding each other for a season.
Four seasons in a row that's 57.1% x 57.1% x 57.1% x 57.1%, a 10.7% chance. Unlikely, but hardly significant.

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You've got a sum wrong there btw - 96.8%*93.3%*85.6% = 77.3%, not 80.0%

Means your chances of getting to the final are 51.6%, not 57.1%, and your chances of getting to four finals in a row are 7.1%, not 10.7% (which ties in with my figures then)

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Originally Posted by seand

There's no need to make an assumption that there's a 90% chance of each club progressing, or anything else, we know there's a 100% chance that each club progressed each time as we're looking at past data.

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I think there is a need to make it. It shows how much of the effect is down to how well the two teams are actually playing. So if, as I noted, it's 80% certain that both Dundalk and Cork to win each match - which is very short odds (1/4), even with no draw option - then the vaguely plausible odds of 7.1% become the tiny odds of 0.03%.

In that case, the real surprise is not that they've not met in the last four years, it's that no-one has beaten them.

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Originally Posted by disgruntled

Admission to the ground is by ticket only & all tickets have to be accounted for whether sold or not.
All tickets coming into Turners Cross are scanned no matter what their source.
No cash is taken at the turnstiles.EVER.
There is a ticket hut on the Curragh Road where tickets can be bought as well as various premises around the city.
Long gone are the days when you could roll up & just put your money on the turnstile as you went in.

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That's all good know - but in no way does any of it rule out a visiting club having people on the turnstiles counting fans who go in if they fear getting diddled on the gate receipts. Whether they're entering via cash, ticket or magic beans, you still count the people - not the payment method.

Again - the fact the FAI had no problem with the figure completely undermines any claims that it is widely inaccurate IMO.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

That's all good know - but in no way does any of it rule out a visiting club having people on the turnstiles counting fans who go in if they fear getting diddled on the gate receipts. Whether they're entering via cash, ticket or magic beans, you still count the people - not the payment method.

Again - the fact the FAI had no problem with the figure completely undermines any claims that it is widely inaccurate IMO.

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3,000 empty seats last night according to the official figure.!!!
Yeah, Bohs fault we were diddled.Thought the days of having an away club observer at every turnstile days were gone.