What are the valid criteria for supporting a club then?
We've already established success, admiring their style of play and geographical location aren't valid reasons to support a club. So what is?
What are the valid criteria for supporting a club then?
We've already established success, admiring their style of play and geographical location aren't valid reasons to support a club. So what is?
The FAI get the crowd money. I'd imagine most of it will go towards Man Utd's fee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggie
That's an easy line to peddle Murfinator, but lets face it the tiny number of League of Ireland fans who attend games week in week out have zero affect on giving the league a bad name, nobody cares enough to listen. If league of Ireland fans can't have a rant on a site dedicated to League of Ireland football then what's the point? Have you ever been criticised by a fan at a league of Ireland game you've attended? Not a hope in hell, new fans are welcomed with open arms, even if they're suspected to be only day trippers, clubs aren't fussy over who's money and support they're willing to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
I started going fairly regularly to games over the last five years, at first supporting no team in particular, then following Wexford Youths as my primary team, making games when I could and as my move to Tallaght more or less coincided with Shamrock Rovers I've had a season ticket to Tallaght for the last couple of years. I've seen plenty of terrible games in that time, and poor atmospheres, but I've watched Premier League, World cup and Champions league games on the telly that have been the same. There's a great buzz about a live atmosphere and the sometimes small but usually vociferous support that League of Ireland clubs get, it's worth trying out, you'll be made welcome and who knows you might just catch the bug?
What have you got to lose is usually what I ask people? I don't think I've ever brought people to a game for them to say they hated it, they may not always go again but a few have and none have sworn off it for life, at the very least it's a good way to spend a few hours catching up with friends.
Em... Geographical location actually is, you have just rationalised a way out of supporting an LOI club. You probably don't live more than 45 minutes from a club in the Premier Division or first division, unless you live in West Kerry, or Achill, and even then there are several A Championship clubs to choose from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
So is any valid connection, a relative played for them/came from the town, etc.
Success definitely is not one, and "admiring their style of play" is just a cop out for wanting success, but not wantint to admit to it. How many people rabidly supported West Brom under Mowbray, and ditched Chelsea for them?
The nearest team to me is in the first division. It's Limerick, a county and city I have no connection whatsoever with and is about an hour away. Are you suggesting I should support them because they're the nearest team to me? And by that logic shouldn't I support England in World Cups we're not at, they are the closest in Geographical proximity to me after all!Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
I have more of a connection with Munich than I have with Limerick and I've actually visited there more than times than Limerick too. Sure if Tipperary had a team I'd support that but they don't so I'm not going to scour the map for the nearest functioning team to me and support them on the basis of that. I'll support the team from a city I love who have a team I enjoy to watch. Sure not as much as I'd support Munster, Tipperary in hurling or the Irish national team but they are my chosen club side and I don't see a thing wrong with it being that way.
Think you're being a bit precious here. No-one's saying that every single football enthusiast in the country should be frog-marched to their nearest LOI ground and forced to enjoy it. It's just worth noting that in the Danish Superliga - in a country with a population of only 5 million - the top two teams get average attendances of between 14-20,000. The other teams range from 12,000 (AGF) to 2,000 (HB Koge). So, every week, about 98,000 people attend games, which is about 2% of the population. Put in perspective, Croke Park gets more than that on any given Championship weekend. If the LOI could even manage half of those figures, it'd be a step in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
There are plenty of 'uninitiated' out there who would really enjoy the LOI, the good vibe around a live game, the sense of community, and all that - if they just got into the habit of going. It's just that they don't bother, they've never thought about it, or don't have any LOI-going mates to 'convert' them. These are the people that need a bit of a shove.
Like in an election, the ones who already have their minds made up are not necessarily going to change - it's the ones who are undecided, who don't yet have a negatively biased opinion of the LOI (like you obviously do), that could make a difference.
Slightly bitter yourself it seems. Probably due to having every one of your arguments shot down, and having to resort to ridiculous claims that all LOI fans a)hate the EPL (obviously not true) b) hate the GAA (obviously not true) and c) are the reason for the LOI failings (completely 100% not true)Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Enjoy your telly
Show me a quote where I claimed this. Whatever I might have to resort to at the very least I'm not making things up like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
This old chestnut AGAINQuote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Where the jaysus do you live??
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ap_Rockall.jpg
Fine, what percentage of LOI fans do you think fall into the above 3 categories? Form your vast personal experience, obviously
I'm not suggesting you support them - but if you only live an hour away, and you obviously love football, then I'd defintely suggest you take in a game some evening when you are free. Limerick played a very attractive brand of football the last time I saw them play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
I've heard enough from you, if you're inventing things that weren't said why I would care to continue discussing things with you? You've clearly no interest in any sort of proper debate, just another forum troll trying to get his way and "win".Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Fair enough, I might. Though I don't think I should be compelled to support them purely because of geography.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Save for a severely bruised ego/pride/reputation for one of them....... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fivesilver
I'm absolutely interested in debating the issue, I'm not the one avoiding answering simple questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Why not respond then to the multiple rational replies and questions that have been posted and just ignore him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
[QUOTE][****s/QUOTE]
4 stars? High praise indeed, gosh thanks.
If it keeps other clubs from being interested in him I'm happy enough :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Funny enough thats exactly what i was thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Murfinator, what exactly is the point you want to make on here? (serious question btw).
You say that you shouldn't be compelled to support a team based on their proximity to you. I don't think anybody is compelling you to do that, though I'd love you to come to Limerick for the Athlone game tomorrow night. The football won't be as good as you're used to, nor will the crowd be as big, but I'd hope you'd enjoy it all the same. You might even come back.
Apart from that, what points are you trying to make?
EDIT -
I'd agree with you on this. It's easy for LOI fans to complain that Irish football fans won't come out and support their local side, but the fact is that as it stands they don't come out to support their local side.Quote:
The league should be capable of being attractive to the public on its own merit. The fact that the public don't have an interest in the LoI I would view as more a failing of the league than a failing of the public attitude.
And LOI clubs are the losers in that - we can argue that the fans are missing the buzz of live football, which i'd say is true - but we need them and their money more than they need us. I'd agree that the failure of the league to attract more fans is at least partly down to the league and clubs itself.
But, what do we need to do in orfer to attract support? we can never, ever offer football or facilities of the standard of the EPL, so somebody who demands that level of improvement is never going to get it.
We end up with a catch-22 situation where we need money to improve, but can't improve without money. We know better facilites will bring some new fans, but have no money to build them. We knoe more PR would help, but have no money to do it.
Please do - and post here on what you thought of it. And bring a few friends with you, you might even have a few scoops afterwards! Like many people supporting local soccer at all levels throughout the county can go hand in hand with an interest in premiership / european football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
If you have the same attitude to Irish football after a few nights watching a few games id be surprised.
Most of the people I go to Airtricity League games with are supporters of Everton, Spurs, Man Utd, Liverpool etc etc.
Not one of them thinks the League here is better than the Premiership. Yet no one slags it off, the common demoninator is the game itself, and taking an interest. Some follow more passonately than others. But all support the league in some shape or form.
Thats why its so depressing to read about last night and the seeing the league's reputation being dragged through the gutter by the very people who are charged to represent it. The FAI's primary concern should be participation in the game itself in all levels in this country, from playing to coaching to senior football. What exactly will last night have done for the game here, apart from turn people away from the league, and give them a valid excuse for doing so in the process. Sad.
The point in a nutshell is that the problem with the LoI isn't with the typical Irish persons attitude like a lot of people seem to believe here. The problem is with the league itself, the standard its at, their failure to ever qualify for Europe and embarrassing financial issues off the pitch. So its frustrating to see on this forum after the LoI's embarrassing showcase to see a lot of blaming towards the public and contempt for not supporting the league.
The league isn't attractive to the public but it requires a better PR strategy from the league itself. Its nothing unusual in other countries and a lot of them respond with investment, recruiting marquee players or just ensuring the youth facilities are there so the top starlets have a path to the top here and don't need to move abroad in their teens.
The League of Ireland has developed significantly more Irish internationals than Man U over the last decade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Can you understand our frustration with a public who by and large either ignore or actively dislike our league, justifying this by complaining about its poor standard, while all the time they (and we LOI fans) are aware that their unwillingness to go to a game plays a part in stopping the standard improving?Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Again, we need money to do it. One of the great untruths about LOI is that we neither know how to improve nor care about improving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
It's easy to talk about signing marquee players and investing in facilites, but you need money to do it, and the LOI's poor standard and attendances, and resulting lack of investment, makes this very very difficult.
For the record I have no issue with any fans who simply don't care about the league. Its the people who actively hate the league, I have an issue with.
As osarusan states, most problems can be solved with money. Money thats now being spent on green & yellow scarves trying to force Americans out of a British club
Best afternoons craic since The BBC pulled Murder she wrote:)
If people can't be arsed, it's their lose. There's no point in getting worked up about that. However, last night was about our national association actively working for our biggest competitors to no benefit to the league.
The majority of people who try and justify supporting foreign clubs to the exclusion of our own league for other reasons are kidding themselves: Too far to travel within Ireland, but I'll travel to Manchester or Munich; Too expensive into games, but I'll spend hundreds on flights and accomodation; Standard of football is crap, but I can't wait for the next xxxxx v Bolton game. If they can't see it, it's their problem - and if it's so ingrained that they have to come on a LoI forum to argue the point, I'm happy they don't go to matches to be perfectly honest.
There was a 'game' on last night. Did you happen to see any of it???Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
You're half right. The League doesn't help itself at the best of times but you have to wonder why the standard is poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
The public need to get off their arse and do something about it if this is going to happen. Watching Man United on the box every week is the easier option and takes far less effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
The boy won't be so happy when he realises his father is illiterate and can't help him with his homework. But at least he'll always have 7-1 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Do you mind if I just cut to the chase here and call you a liar, and therefore give your argument no credibility? A couple of posts back you claim there is no league club within a two hour drive of you, now you say you are an hour from Limerick. You are contradicting yourself and showing yourself up to be a liar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Bayern I assume. Surely not 1860.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
As long as Peersy keeps on chewing up and spitting out LoI strikers, he can score a hat-trick of own goals with his arse when he lines out against X-Factor FC for all I care. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I said there was no Airtricity League team within 2 hours and there um isn't. Limerick are division 1 I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodquayBoy
Airtricity sponsored as well I believe.
They play in the Airtricity League First Division, much like the Derry City keeper that came on last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Slapped down like the lamearse - and incorrect - excuse it is. Next?Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
So now you, um, would only, um, support a top local Irish team? Quelle surprise!Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Brought my brother in law to a drogs v bohs game recently ( the one that one cancelled due to flood light failure ) . He enjoyed standing on the terrace in the lashing rain , watching mediocre football . Hes a season ticket holder and born and bred bolton wanderers fan . According to him to quality of football in the epl is majority muck with the exception of the top five . Hes actually thinking of moving to Ireland at some stage and says he will buy a season ticket . It reminds him of english football before it sold its soul i.e crap facilities , crapy burgers , crapy football ! but an atmosphere of honesty and some passion from the supporters .
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndrog
I've bumped into quite a few English and the odd German and French fan at Derry games. Typically they've moved to Derry, and just go along, unconsciously, because they like football and its the local side. Its no more complicated than that. Try explaining that mindset to your average yahoo here who has owned Leeds, Chelsea, Sunderland and Man City merchadise over the last 15 years....
In saying that he tells me about lads he went to school with in bolton that are man u and liverpool fans ! My uncle is from Bolton . horwich actually which is where the reebok is and he watches man u on telly rather than going 10 mins down the rd to Bolton gmaes .The mind really boggles !