Potentially eligible players thread

Can't ye take this to the eligibility thread? This used to be a very interesting thread....

Why do these guys even have a thread? Nolan isn't eligible. O'Hara doesn't want to play for Ireland for similar reasons to Curtis Davies. Noble hasn't once talked about playing for Ireland.

Check out the date the thread was started.

It was started in 2009 when these players were being chased. It has now morphed into general chit-chat about potential players.

Agree with rebelmusic that talk about the mechanics of eligibility be kept to its own thread. It makes my brain hurt. We get nordie players cos it's written into the Good Friday Agreement. S'all you need to know.

I think it'd be better if the Eligibility Rules thread be kept for discussing the rules as they are, rather than people saying "I think it should be parentage only blah blah blah"

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think it'd be better if the Eligibility Rules thread be kept for discussing the rules as they are, rather than people saying "I think it should be parentage only blah blah blah"

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I don't remember saying blah blah blah at any point so I'm not sure why that's in quotation marks.

I wasn't really quoting anybody, it was just a general thing.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Not being myopic and looking at it from a Scottish perspective, I can fully understand their frustrations about McCarthy and McGeady playing for Ireland. Conor Clifford is of Scottish descent. If he declared for Scotland whilst at Chelsea, Irish fans would be going apes***.

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If fans don't like it, that's tough. It's the player's prerogative. Anyhow, we've also lost players as a result of the rule allowing players to switch association once, but I don't recall there being any widespread outrage directed towards them or the benefitting associations. Most of us are mature enough to acknowledge the decision rests with the player and can wish him the best in his choice.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

We get nordie players cos it's written into the Good Friday Agreement. S'all you need to know.

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I won't bite. :)

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Kevin Kilbane is one of the exceptions and of course he had Irish parentage - which I believe is the line at where eligibility should end. You mention Paul Green. The lad didn't even know he was eligible until his Grandfather told him. It's just a bit strange to me. He doesn't know/Grandad doesn't know he's Irish?? Anyways, eligibility isn't up to me and as you say, ultimately, if they play for the shirt, that's all that matters.

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I hadn't realised or ever heard this was the case with Green. I did hear him say he was aware of his eligibility but as he was a lower league player when breaking through he didn't give any thought to international football of any kind. Where did he say he never knew he was eligible ?

I note Will Keane also joined Kevin Doyle on loan at QPR. He's the brother that is definitely still eligible to play for us.

I'm not sure if Michael is still eligible, however, as he lined out for our under-17s before playing competitively for England at under-age level. If those under-17 games for us were competitive fixtures, he'll already have used up his option to switch association once. Can anyone clarify whether or not they were competitive?

It would appear so from this http://www.alltimesoccer.com/alltime...vs_austria_u17

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I note Will Keane also joined Kevin Doyle on loan at QPR. He's the brother that is definitely still eligible to play for us.

I'm not sure if Michael is still eligible, however, as he lined out for our under-17s before playing competitively for England at under-age level. If those under-17 games for us were competitive fixtures, he'll already have used up his option to switch association once. Can anyone clarify whether or not they were competitive?

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only a few pages back Danny: http://foot.ie/threads/119079-Kevin-...=1#post1721886

Hehe, had a feeling it might have been confirmed already but couldn't quite put my finger on it.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

The majority of players that declare for Ireland are doing so out of financial reasons and sporting reasons not sentimental reasons. Diego Costa declaring for Spain and Eduardo declaring for Croatia is also disgraceful for different reasons but at least these countries are getting world class players.

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You can't possibly know that though. And what's the solution anyway? Ban the Kilbanes, McCarthys and McGeadys, just in case the Lawrences don't see themselves as fully Irish? That's unworkable, and a bit daft.

I think the rules are fine. At the margins they are abused, like any rule. Any thought of denying 2G Irish the opportunity to play for us smacks of some De Valera like idealised notion of Irishness.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think the rules are fine. At the margins they are abused, like any rule. Any thought of denying 2G Irish the opportunity to play for us smacks of some De Valera like idealised notion of Irishness

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I thought it was his notion of Spanishness that was idealised (ie imaginary)?

This article would seem to indicate that Flanagan is not eligible for us which was what was mentioned earlier in the thread.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ield-hero.html

I was looking through the Emerald Exiles site that TOWK posted in the Selçuk Tidim thread and came across Salford-born Sean Tse, formerly of Manchester City, who was called up to our under-17s for two friendly fixtures in 2009. He qualifies for us by virtue of his maternal grandparentage. I don't think he ever played for us, however, whilst his Wikipedia article states that "he absented these two matches", whatever that means exactly... Did he pull out through injury or did he simply reject the invitation? Who knows?

I'm pretty sure I'd come across his curiously bicultural name before somewhere (possibly in Football Manager), but don't think I'd known of his eligibility. He's now 20 and playing for South China in the Hong Kong First Division League. Admittedly, that's well below the standard at which we'd be hoping for our international representatives to be playing, whilst it also seems the Hong Kong international side are keen to make him part of their plans, but just thought him an interesting one of "ours abroad" that I've not really seen mentioned on here nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Tse is eligible for Republic of Ireland through his maternal grand-parentage. Tse was called for Republic of Ireland national under-17 football team in April 2009 to two under-17 friendlies against Poland national under-17 football team but he absented these two matches.^[8][9]

He has also shown interest in joining the Hong Kong national football team and was listed on the training squad roster for the 2013 EAFF East Asian Cup in 2012.^[10] He was then called up by Kim Pan-Gon, the head coach of Hong Kong national football team, for the 2013 Guangdong–Hong Kong Cup.

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This is the squad he was called into: http://www.fai.ie/international/yout...t-stadium.html
He's been mentioned a few times on the forum, but nothing in years: https://www.google.com/search?q=sean+tse+site%3Afoot.ie

Might have to rename the thread: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30037286.html

And there's talk of Nolan getting an England call up too.

In fairness, Allardyce seems to be on a roll having appeared utterly discredited a few months ago.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Might have to rename the thread: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30037286.html

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We WILL have to rename the thread.

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Originally Posted by Mark Noble

To be picked for my country is my ultimate goal, as it should be with any English player.

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It's not like Nolan, Noble and O'Hara are the exception with that school of thought. I appreciate their honesty, and the graft that has them within arms length of a call-up for England is to be admired.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

We WILL have to rename the thread.

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In keeping with the old title, how about 'Bamford, Redmond and McLaughlin'?

Was Joel Campbell ever eligible in the end or was that story about the Irish missionary impregnating his mother just lies (and fodder for a derogatory terrace chant)?

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Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

Was Joel Campbell ever eligible in the end or was that story about the Irish missionary impregnating his mother just lies (and fodder for a derogatory terrace chant)?

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That was debunked.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

We WILL have to rename the thread.

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I'm still holding out for Jamie...

Watching the Everton v West Ham game here this morning. Nolan is some moany c*nt.

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/en...-30050554.html

Rochdale's Scott Hogan has emerged as a possible recruit for us. He is 22 years old in April. He has 19 goals in 36 games so far this season, including a hat-trick this weekend.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/en...-30050554.html

Rochdale's Scott Hogan has emerged as a possible recruit for us. He is 22 years old in April. He has 19 goals in 36 games so far this season, including a hat-trick this weekend.

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Possibly one for the future, and with McGoldrick, it gives some new options which is always pleasing.


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26119110

Liam George on Curtis Davies and "granny-rulers": http://balls.ie/football/fai-wasting...hasing-player/

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Originally Posted by Balls.ie

Curtis Davies is extremely torn about Martin O’Neill’s invitation to him to come and play for Ireland. That’s according to Liam George, one of the stars of Ireland’s U-20 European Championship win in 1998.

George currently works as a physio in Luton and is a friend of Davies from the time they were both on the books at Luton Town. He told Balls.ie today that the defender is at best wary about accepting the FAI’s request that he throw his lot in with Ireland.

The Hull defender has rather tenuous ancestral links to the country that are now looking for him to fill in at centre-half. He qualifies through his grandmother, who was born in Ireland thanks to her father’s role in the British army. The family moved back to England shortly after she was born.

"I spoke to Curtis earlier on today again, because there’s quite a lot of confusion (about his ancestral links). His great-grandfather was in the British military. His Gran was born in Ireland but obviously to English parents and shortly after that, they came back to England. The birth certificate (of his grandmother) is Irish, so he believes he does qualify."

According to George, Davies’ misgivings are straightforward. As far as he’s concerned, he’s English. And he’s having some difficulty processing the idea that he could really play for Ireland.

"The problem he has is he’s got no Irish influence, because they (his great-grandparents and grandmother) were English, and they came back to England shortly after that. So although there’s a link, he says it’s difficult for him because he’s very much a ‘wear his heart on his sleeve’ type of guy and he doesn’t want to take up a place that someone who’s potentially a very proud Irish person wants to take."

At the same time, George insists that Davies “doesn’t not want to play for Ireland” and if he did come over he would “obviously give it his all.” However, George points out that Davies was quite open about his disappointment at not getting in England squad for a couple of friendlies earlier this year. And he still harbours strong ambitions of breaking into the England side.

George verified the reports that the FAI have launched a “charm offensive” to bring the centre-half on board.

"He played under Martin at Villa and he’s said that a few of Martin’s people have sounded him out and asked him would he play for Ireland and he’s kind of just stuttered a bit and said he doesn’t want to say no but, at the same time, he’s wondering would it be fair to say yes? Basically, he doesn’t want to go across and then all of a sudden people are saying ‘You’re not really Irish’ and ‘you’re not one of us’."

George is best remembered by Irish supporters for slotting the final penalty in shoot-out against Germany in ’98. He himself qualified to play for Ireland through his Irish mother and grew up in an intensely Irish household in Luton. There was never any doubt that he would pick Ireland ahead of England, had both come requesting his services.

"I never got a full international cap but I can honestly say that I’d only ever played for Ireland. A lot of people look at me and say ‘well you’re as English as they come,’ and I say ‘No, I’ve never felt English.’ I was brought up in an Irish household, I went to a Catholic school. Everything about me feels Irish, I have no English influences whatsoever, so if I couldn’t play for my country, I’m not thinking about anywhere else."

In the past half-century, numerous English born players have lined out for Ireland. Many of these players would have felt a strong cultural identification with Ireland and grown up in households drenched in Irish culture. George reckons that assessing the relative degree of ‘Irishness’ of a player is a subtle and tricky business. Each case should be looked at differently, and it very much comes down to each person’s feelings and background.

"They compare me and Gary Doherty a lot because we went to the same school, both his parents were Irish, he was born in Donegal. But yet, he hasn’t got a clue about Ireland. It’s not that he couldn’t care less, its just he’s not very culturally aware. Whereas me, I was in Ireland every six weeks on my summer holidays. I were forced to go over there. I was in Ballymun, I was in Fairview. I was a kind of bona fide Dublin boy, all my cousins played for St. Vincents, so I was brought up in that environment. I was always very aware of being Irish."

George instances Stephen Reid as another who actively sought out the FAI to alert them of his Irish links, rather than wait for the FAI to sift through his ancestral history. Reid got in touch with the FAI through Richie Sadlier when they both were at Milwall.

The thing that annoys George the most is that the idea that the FAI are spending their time chasing down players who patently have little interest in walking out on the Lansdowne Road pitch, unless of course England are in town.

"The biggest problem I’ve got with it is that if somebody’s Irish, they’ll find a way of letting the FAI know they’e Irish, rather than the FAI having to investigate. And I think that’s the biggest bugbear that I have with it. If there’s a player in the top league that’s Irish, and he wants to play for Ireland, then we should know about it. But if you’re trying to chase back lineage and the player doesn’t know they’re Irish, then I think that says quite a lot. It says they’re not really interested anyway."

The term ‘mercenary’ was tossed around liberally in the English media (and by certain rival international managers. Billy Bingham please stand up) in the late ’80s, when the FAI’s policy of recruiting English born players with remote ties to Ireland was at its most fevered.

Liam George certainly did not use the word mercenary, and was very keen not to label anybody who has played for Ireland in this fashion. However, he did express concern at the idea that many English-born players would seek to play for Ireland just for the sake of participating in a major tournament, rather than out of a genuine desire to represent Ireland.

"I’d hate players to be playing for Ireland just to get in big tournaments, rather than wanting to play for Ireland. The reason we won that tournament (in ’98) was because the pride of being Irish was so strong and that’s what got us there. I think if you let people in because they’re grandparent’s grandparents were Irish, I think you’re opening a horrible can of worms and people aren’t going to want to play for the badge and the tricolour and I think it’s not good for Irish football."

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Met Liam George a few months back, he's the real deal. And actually respect too, to Curtis Davies for his thoughts and candour on the matter.

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"The biggest problem I’ve got with it is that if somebody’s Irish, they’ll find a way of letting the FAI know they’e Irish, rather than the FAI having to investigate. And I think that’s the biggest bugbear that I have with it. If there’s a player in the top league that’s Irish, and he wants to play for Ireland, then we should know about it. But if you’re trying to chase back lineage and the player doesn’t know they’re Irish, then I think that says quite a lot. It says they’re not really interested anyway."

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Firstly, although I wanted Davies in, now I know how tenuous the link is I think we should leave it.

Secondly, the bit I quoted, I don't agree with Liam there. A couple of paragraphs previously he cites the example of Gary Doherty not being in any way culturally aware, and these days we're getting English/Scotch lads in at 15/16 and one can hardly expect them to have delved into their genealogy...so unfortunately I think it's necessary for the FAI to chase eligible players up rather than waiting for them to declare for us. Just think who we'd have lost out on over the years.

And assuming cultural awareness is a valid criterion (it ain't) how should we define culturally aware? I grew up in Rathfarnham but have only ever been to a Ceilidh by coercion, never went to the Gaeltacht, never played any form of GAA, used to cringe at prime time TV commercials for mastitis treatments for cattle, was utterly crap at Irish, only played Garrison games, hated Mass, hated Fianna Fáil and so on. I'd fail almost all objective cultural criteria!

And to top it all, you're a brit :)

I think our Cyprus hero was more explaining that 2 kids growing up in what appears to be very similar circumstances in England, can have contrasting awareness of their Irish ethnicity. Maybe he was blowing his own trumpet a bit at the same time.
What he isn't interested in, what most everybody agrees with, is chasing after players who have no interest, and certainly not Davies who has probably the most tenuous link to Ireland of any eligible player in the history of eligibility.

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Originally Posted by geysir

And to top it all, you're a brit :)

I think our Cyprus hero was more explaining that 2 kids growing up in what appears to be very similar circumstances in England, can have contrasting awareness of their Irish ethnicity. Maybe he was blowing his own trumpet a bit at the same time.
What he isn't interested in, what most everybody agrees with, is chasing after players who have no interest, and certainly not Davies who has probably the most tenuous link to Ireland of any eligible player in the history of eligibility.

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Terry Mancini and Tony Cascarino say hello.

Why Cascarino?

http://balls.ie/wp-content/uploads/2...anbardsley.gif

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Terry Mancini and Tony Cascarino say hello.

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Terry Mancini had an Irish father
Cas had an Irish mother, doesn't matter that she was adopted by Cas' grandfather.
Davies has Irish born grandparents who just happened to be born in Ireland while the great grandparents were on a tour of duty or something, his grandparents have no recollection of Ireland.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Terry Mancini had an Irish father
Cas had an Irish mother, doesn't matter that she was adopted by Cas' grandfather.
Davies has Irish born grandparents who just happened to be born in Ireland while the great grandparents were on a tour of duty or something, his grandparents have no recollection of Ireland.

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My bad. Somehow I got it into my head that neither Mancini or Cascarino had a blood link.