FAI proposals for future of Eircom League...

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29/05/2006, 3:20 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

I'm not saying you don�t deserve your place in the 22 and I'm not saying you are the bottom of the pile either but some of the nonsense you lot have come out with trying to defend UCD is annoying.

If you ask me there's an equal amount of nonsence coming in both directions. If UCD are going to continue in the premier as it improves we're goning to need bigger crowds & a better stadium, there's no question about that. It's not accurate though to accuse us of sitting on our hands and showing no ambition. 1.6 million has already been invested in the Bowl to bring it up to soccer specs and when the planning board rejects the appeal which is holding the rest up another million will finish the job this summer. The fact of the matter is that UCD, aswell as a lot of other clubs, just can't afford to run up a loss of a million euros a year chasing league titles and call it ambition.
29/05/2006, 3:23 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

I think you UCD fans are underestimating the potential that 10 well supported teams in a Premier Division has.

Are we really? The Premier Division has contained most of the league's biggest clubs throughout most of its history. What good has it done the league? You can replace UCD and Dublin with Limerick and Shamrock Rovers but you will not make a monumental difference. It doesn't seem to bother you that shifting teams on such bases is somewhat odd or not football like. You seem to be talking about it like it's something normal. Your end result for doing this bizarre and unfair thing is not a huge amount of difference.

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If you can get this type of feeling in all grounds every week of the league season I think it could help increase crowds.

How are you going to get these people to come because you've added a couple of bigger games to the calendar? Are they even going to notice? Do you not think there's something more fundementally wrong preventing these people from bothering to support their local side than them having to play UCD instead of Rovers one week?

Quote:

You also forget a 10 team league means we play each other twice so we get two Shamrock Rovers gates and two Bohs Pats Cork Drogheda etc etc. You may not like this but I find UCD and Dublin City games to be absolute rubbish and I can only put my finger on the lack of atmosphere and interest there is.

You're seriously minimalising the league's problems here. If you can't get fans to come to Tolka every week then a couple of games against UCD and Dublin City have little to do with it. This is even the first time both clubs have been together in the Premier Division.

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How you can go to Belfield every 2nd week is astonishing in my opinion. Well done to any of you who do but your team has NO ambition!!! Its not Pragmatism its NO AMBITION!!!

Our team has their own ambitions. To stay in the Premier Division, to do well in the cups, to continue to develop talent, to increase the fanbase, enhance community links. Look over across the water to the Premiership. There are some clubs who's ambition is to avoid relegation, others to achieve midtable security, others to challenge for UEFA cup spots, others CL spots and a few the title. That's the reality of football, varying clubs with varying ambitions, goals, resources etc. It is pragmatism. You've lost all scope of footballing reality. Crewe Alexandria have a reputation for developing football talent like UCD and are actually lauded for it.

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Everyone goes on about Dublin City here but I don’t mind them as least Ronan has some idea of what he would like even if its highly unlikely ever to happen.

See, here's where you pragmatism and reality comes in again. Read some of his statements of the club's goals and try not to laugh. He has no sense of reality. All long term goals and plans must be tempered with reality and pragmatism.

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You blame the college for your lack of development in Belfield ??? Is it not up to the club to sort that out…. You have been playing there long enough now to have a proper structure in place.

You tell me then, why is the Riverside a wreck? Why is the Ballybough (the one opposite the Riverside?) totally outdated with giant unsafe steps? You're not making much of an effort to sort out Tolka either? Why is that? Because you don't own it? You're planning on moving away? Or you can't afford it? I don't know myself, but a lot of it is in a bad state and for reasons beyond your control or lack of finances you can't be arsed to sort it out yourselves.

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You have been in the premier division long enough not to have put some money back into your ground. You cant turn around and say the FAI are giving you half a season.

We've upgraded it gradually and we were going to upgrade it further but the college has other plans for it, not much we can do.

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Facts are if your club had any intention of doing anything other then surviving every single season you would have something worthy of calling a ground.

That would be why we're working on it and have applied for planning permission.

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I'm not saying you don’t deserve your place in the 22 and I'm not saying you are the bottom of the pile either but some of the nonsense you lot have come out with trying to defend UCD is annoying.

Some of the stuff you come out with is equally annoying.

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Actually can you tell me what there aims are for the coming season ?????

To avoid being arbitrarily relegated by a committee.

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Try do up your ground or try something.

Hence the planning permission.

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You are a joke of a club in my opinion, not because you attached to a College or have the name UCD but you have no intention of going anywhere or doing anything.

Yes we do, but because it falls short of megalomanic desire for world conquest that offends you. Ever played Football Manager? Notice how when you pick different clubs the boards give you different aims depending on the clubs you pick?

Quote:

If we all adapt the UCD attitude we all sit around saying how crap everything is and never try anything new!! What do you expect to happen??? Do you think John Delaney and the FAI should release a statement saying the EL is doomed and we have decided to do nothing as we think its pointless, now carry on. You lot would be first to complain as usual.

There's nothing wrong with the salary caps, added prize money, assistance for marketing etc. There is something wrong with arbitrarily assigning places. Don't pretend I am against all progress or ideas.
29/05/2006, 3:27 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

If you can get this type of feeling in all grounds every week of the league season I think it could help increase crowds.

Nothing more than a vague feeling, so? Based on the fact that the myriad away fans in the league would prefer more home fans to interact with? Hardly a solid basis for cherry-picking, don't you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

You may not like this but I find UCD and Dublin City games to be absolute rubbish and I can only put my finger on the lack of atmosphere and interest there is.

That appears to me to be your problem, not ours or the league's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

[Y]our team has NO ambition!!!

This would be the same team who are arguing aganist being kicked out of the Premier? Real lack of ambition there. The same team who have consistently punched about their weight for the last 15 years? Real lack of ambition there. Of course's there's plans going forward, including a structure for full-time football. (Couldn't be bothered going into them in detail though, as it's the wrong thread and as you strike me as yet another of the closed-ears brigade.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

You blame the college for your lack of development in Belfield ??? Is it not up to the club to sort that out�.

Pure ignorance beginning to show through here, I'm afraid. There were plans in place - planning permission had been sought and achieved, in fact - for a full redevelopment of Belfield Park about 3 or 4 years ago. The first phase was a 1200-seater stand on the hill, with changing rooms, hospitality area, etc. There were three other phases in place as well. Then the college decided it wanted the land to build a new facility, so we had to ditch our plans and row in with the college's. So yes, it is the college's fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

You can't turn around and say the FAI are giving you half a season.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean?:confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

I follow Shelbourne as you might have noticed and I can sure as hell tell you exactly what the aim of Shelbourne FC is and its not to just survive.

Given your recent financial trouble, that should be your aim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

Try do up your ground or try something.

Like the new ground that has planning permission in?

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

You are a joke of a club in my opinion

That's OK. I made my mind up about your opinion a while back.
29/05/2006, 3:30 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

If UCD are going to continue in the premier as it improves we're goning to need bigger crowds & a better stadium, there's no question about that.

Should point that that's a no-brainer. No-body's saying we - or any other club - don't want to improve. Just that we shouldn't be punished for improving at a different rate to others.
29/05/2006, 3:37 PM
higgins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Shelbourne eh? This the same Shelbourne who on completing a league and cup double in 2001 attracted 900 people for their first home game the following season against newly promoted Bray who brought over 200 fans to the game?
This the same club that brought 100 fans to Flancare park for a possible title deciding game in 2004?

Yes thats them...

They also happen to be the Shelbourne who for the most part have a decent sized crowd in EL terms at most home games ie Games when we dont play UCD, Dublin City.

Dont come on here saying Shels get bad crowds. In EL terms we are up there in the top 3 or 4 every season.

We can all pick the odd game here and there where crowds dont turn up! That happens to every team, rain tv public holidays exams god only knows why but lets stick to averages.
29/05/2006, 3:54 PM
higgins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Are we really? The Premier Division has contained most of the league's biggest clubs throughout most of its history. What good has it done the league? You can replace UCD and Dublin with Limerick and Shamrock Rovers but you will not make a monumental difference. It doesn't seem to bother you that shifting teams on such bases is somewhat odd or not football like. You seem to be talking about it like it's something normal. Your end result for doing this bizarre and unfair thing is not a huge amount of difference.

I think it might just kickstart something that could grow and with the added extra of prize money extra TV coverage and hopefully all clubs encouraged to spend more on Marketing no it doesn�t bother me.
Life is too short to sit around and do nothing. Lets give it a try. Its football and its one season in the life of any club. If your as well run as you say you will be back up in 2008 with Shels and their 10,000 average fanbase :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

How are you going to get these people to come because you've added a couple of bigger games to the calendar? Are they even going to notice? Do you not think there's something more fundementally wrong preventing these people from bothering to support their local side than them having to play UCD instead of Rovers one week?

Eh!!! You may have not noticed this being a UCD fan but there is a massive difference in gate money between playing a well dupported Dublin team and a not so well supported Dublin team

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

You're seriously minimalising the league's problems here. If you can't get fans to come to Tolka every week then a couple of games against UCD and Dublin City have little to do with it. This is even the first time both clubs have been together in the Premier Division.

I know and as you can see teams are hit with poor crowds now twice !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Our team has their own ambitions. To stay in the Premier Division, to do well in the cups, to continue to develop talent, to increase the fanbase, enhance community links. Look over across the water to the Premiership. There are some clubs who's ambition is to avoid relegation, others to achieve midtable security, others to challenge for UEFA cup spots, others CL spots and a few the title. That's the reality of football, varying clubs with varying ambitions, goals, resources etc. It is pragmatism. You've lost all scope of footballing reality. Crewe Alexandria have a reputation for developing football talent like UCD and are actually lauded for it.

Its realistic to say you will survive and you will try avoid relegation. I don�t for one second think Shels will win the Champions League but EVERY SEASON lads EVERY FECKING SEASON you are at this.
Are you not sick of it yourselves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

See, here's where you pragmatism and reality comes in again. Read some of his statements of the club's goals and try not to laugh. He has no sense of reality. All long term goals and plans must be tempered with reality and pragmatism.

He is up there in the clouds but I'd like to have tried and failed rather than not try at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

You tell me then, why is the Riverside a wreck? Why is the Ballybough (the one opposite the Riverside?) totally outdated with giant unsafe steps? You're not making much of an effort to sort out Tolka either? Why is that? Because you don't own it? You're planning on moving away? Or you can't afford it? I don't know myself, but a lot of it is in a bad state and for reasons beyond your control or lack of finances you can't be arsed to sort it out yourselves.

Oh come on ???????
The fact you can even put in the word step makes any of them whole heap better then the scaffolding out in Belfield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

We've upgraded it gradually and we were going to upgrade it further but the college has other plans for it, not much we can do.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
OK please please telll me the gradual improvements you have made to Belfield going back 10 years or so ?
You gradually let the grass grow is about all�.

What other ground has a keep off the grass sign ?

Please tell me the improvements you have made

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Yes we do, but because it falls short of megalomanic desire for world conquest that offends you. Ever played Football Manager? Notice how when you pick different clubs the boards give you different aims depending on the clubs you pick?

Of course you cant aim for the title this season but maybe if you had any other plan other then survive you could put together this thing they call a long term plan ?
For some club who you say is so well run you don�t seem to have any long term objectives.
29/05/2006, 4:11 PM
higgins

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Nothing more than a vague feeling, so? Based on the fact that the myriad away fans in the league would prefer more home fans to interact with? Hardly a solid basis for cherry-picking, don't you think?

If anyone could put their finger on the reason to why they would have by now. I can only offer my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That appears to me to be your problem, not ours or the league's.

NO NO!!!
We are all part of the one league.
My comments are made with the league in mind.
Your club is one of the few who are unwilling to progress at any decent rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

This would be the same team who are arguing aganist being kicked out of the Premier? Real lack of ambition there. The same team who have consistently punched about their weight for the last 15 years? Real lack of ambition there. Of course's there's plans going forward, including a structure for full-time football. (Couldn't be bothered going into them in detail though, as it's the wrong thread and as you strike me as yet another of the closed-ears brigade.)

I am not closed to anything???
The facts are nobody knows of your plans except for you few and maybe that�s part of the reason you appear to lack ambition.
Lets hear the plans�

You said you had great plans for this new bowl idea too but when it comes down to it your looking at 1,500 seats !!
Amazing Stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Pure ignorance beginning to show through here, I'm afraid. There were plans in place - planning permission had been sought and achieved, in fact - for a full redevelopment of Belfield Park about 3 or 4 years ago. The first phase was a 1200-seater stand on the hill, with changing rooms, hospitality area, etc. There were three other phases in place as well. Then the college decided it wanted the land to build a new facility, so we had to ditch our plans and row in with the college's. So yes, it is the college's fault.

Explain all this to John and co.
If he is feeling sorry for you, you may get an extra few points�

Probably bring along some guy to play the violin while your telling him the story..

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Given your recent financial trouble, that should be your aim.

That recent financial trouble was sorted and we are now moving on as a club. Everyone has had problems in the past and if Shels did fold it wouldn�t be the first club to ever do so. It may be a live by the sword die by the sword attitude you would not be happy with but I for one really enjoyed singing my heart out on the steps of the Riazor Stadium in the Champions League when we were 0-0 with Deportivo after 135 mins of football�
In fact Croatia was a really nice place too and I had never been to Lille either.

If you want I can send a postcard from Lithuania

You look forward to surviving and let the rest of us enjoying living life.

I agree you can take the above 'living by the sword�.' to its limits and that�s not a good thing but you have to take some risks in football.
29/05/2006, 4:32 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

If anyone could put their finger on the reason to why they would have by now. I can only offer my opinion.

Well, I'm convinced so. Let's all move ahead with this ridiculous idea on the basis of a vague hunch that no-one can put their finger on despite 12 pages of trying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

NO NO!!!
We are all part of the one league.
My comments are made with the league in mind.

Exactly the reason why you can't screw over a couple of small clubs for the benefit of the big ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

The facts are nobody knows of your plans except for you few and maybe that’s part of the reason you appear to lack ambition.

I hardly think it's surprising few people outside of the club have heard of the club's plans. It's not exactly everyday conversation, is it? The fact we keep ourselves to ourselves doesn't mean we don't have a plan in place. I don't know of Shelbourne's precise plans going forward - for getting a ground, for sorting out their debts, etc. Doesn't mean they don't exist. I noted before that this isn't the thread for discussing UCD's plans. If you want to take things off topic, open a new thread elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

You said you had great plans for this new bowl idea too but when it comes down to it you're looking at 1,500 seats !!
Amazing Stuff

Who said we had "great" plans? We have plans. They're a big improvement on present. Is that not acceptable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

That recent financial trouble was sorted and we are now moving on as a club.

Of course it is. Gone away, never to resurface.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

don’t for one second think Shels will win the Champions League but EVERY SEASON lads EVERY FECKING SEASON you are at this.
Are you not sick of it yourselves?

Do you want to ask Bray fans about their club's plans to win the Premier next year? Or Harps? Or Waterford or Bohs or Sligo or Rovers or Athlone or Limerick? Or all the other clubs who know they aren't going to win the league next year but still have plans in place? Is "Win the league" the only plan you can comprehend? If so, you have absolutely no clue about the bigger football picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

Eh!!! You may have not noticed this being a UCD fan but there is a massive difference in gate money between playing a well dupported Dublin team and a not so well supported Dublin team

If we're going to discuss Dublin teams costing other Dublin teams money, will we bring up how long it took you to pay us? You try and screw us out of E20k and you're worried about lost revenue from maybe 100 Galway* fans?

* - Not a dig at Galway. Just wanted an example of a team possibly to come up, but not Rovers as a Dublin team.
29/05/2006, 4:40 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

Lets hear the plans�

Here you are, though I think I've given you the link before.
http://www.dlrcoco.ie/planning/planlist/2006/APES14.htm

There was a pre-planning meeting in the county council two months or so ago about bringing the total capacity up to 4,400 seats within 5 years but I can't find a link to anything other than a low resolution map. If I do stumble across the diagrams I'll post them up though.
29/05/2006, 6:42 PM
Bald Student

Potentially the most pointless game in history?

There's to be a playoff between 11th in the premier and 2nd in the first for who will be ranked 12th or 13th gaining the winner 1 point. Even worse, in the very likely scenario that one or both teams aren't within a ranking point of the team above or below them in the 200 points for the current season, it will make no difference at all to their overall score because in that section it's the ranking and not the overall score that counts.

This has the potential to be one of the most pointless end of season game in football's history.

Quote:

At the end of 2006 playing season, clubs will be allocated �competition points� on the basis of
their League standings and performances in FAI & League Cups and Europe. When the total
�competition points� accrued by each club is tallied, they will be ranked accordingly � the club
with the highest number of competition points is ranked 1, with the club with the lowest number
of competition points ranked 22 for the purposes of the IAG process.

League: Premier Division League winners receive 22 points, runners-up 21 points reducing on a
point per position down to 1 point for bottom place in the 1st Division.

Last place finisher in Premiership in regular season will be �relegated� => ranked #14 in league
standings and allocated 9pts
1st Division winner will be �Promoted� => ranked #11 in league standings and allocated 12pts

Club finishing 11th in Premier will play off against 1st Division runners up.
Winners of the play off will be finish #12 in League standings and gain 11pts
Losers of the play off will be ranked 13th and allocated 10pts.
29/05/2006, 7:01 PM
Roverstillidie

does anyone who doesnt support ucd have any objections to this plan?
29/05/2006, 7:06 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

does anyone who doesnt support ucd have any objections to this plan?

There's been a number of them posting here already. :rolleyes:
29/05/2006, 7:50 PM
Roverstillidie

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

There's been a number of them posting here already. :rolleyes:

have they? must have got lost in 17 pages of 4 UCD fans telling us all the world will end if this proposal comes to fruition.
29/05/2006, 8:14 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

does anyone who doesnt support ucd have any objections to this plan?

I do. Hugely. Can't believe anybody wants to put the game we love in the hands of the FAI. An organistation who have show themselves capable of doing NOTHING correctly and who have shown ZERO interest in our league previously (the head of this organistion was always involved when a memebr of the league reached its lowest point)

Oh and calling it the Premiership and Championship is/are pathetic. Truly poor decision.
29/05/2006, 8:46 PM
Mr A

I object to the return to a ten team premier, and to the vagueness of the points system for next year. I think the 5 year record is a bit of a joke and that the football side should be based on this year only, despite the fact that that doesn't suit Harps at all. The plan has plenty of good points, but unless clarified completely and executed transparently could descend into total farce.
29/05/2006, 9:34 PM
thejollyrodger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Shelbourne eh? This the same Shelbourne who on completing a league and cup double in 2001 attracted 900 people for their first home game the following season against newly promoted Bray who brought over 200 fans to the game?
This the same club that brought 100 fans to Flancare park for a possible title deciding game in 2004?

The same club that attracted 24,000 supporters for a champions league game. Whats your highest attendence ?
29/05/2006, 9:37 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

The same club that attracted 24,000 supporters for a champions league game.

You wouldn't get that for a Premier game. Anyway a lot of those were only there because of the occassion and weren't actually Shels fans.
29/05/2006, 9:47 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmandmythdledge

You wouldn't get that for a Premier game. Anyway a lot of those were only there because of the occassion and weren't actually Shels fans.

At least they got them in. They got to see an eircom league side play, and who knows, some may have been converted.

It'll be a cold day in hell when UCD get 24,000 in to watch them.
29/05/2006, 9:58 PM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

It'll be a cold day in hell when UCD get 24,000 in to watch them.

I'm pretty sure more than that saw us loose to Everton in 1984 and that was only the cup winners cup!
29/05/2006, 10:27 PM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

At least they got them in. They got to see an eircom league side play, and who knows, some may have been converted.

It'll be a cold day in hell when UCD get 24,000 in to watch them.

We got 23,500 in May 1995 in Lansdowne Road for a game with Liverpool to celebrate our Centenary ! We were just crowned First Division Champions too for the record.

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