Spurs/Arsenal Champions League Spot?

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09/05/2006, 11:21 AM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

As I said earlier I could not give a **** if Spurs won a trophy or not I wanted Robbie Keane to be playing Champions League football as I think most Ireland supporters should have been. Arsenal have no Irish players in their 1st team squad so it was not within my interest for them to qualify for the Champions League.

Maybe it's just me Neil but I've noticed a sudden change in your stance on Spurs. For the last few weeks/months you have been claiming to be a Spurs fan quite openly, just reading back on some of your posts over the last few weeks shows that.

It appears to me that your trying to distance yourself suddenly from even wanting Spurs to win a trophy but now instead claiming that your just a Robbie Keane fan. It's all a bit confusing to be honest. Don't know why but that's what it looks like and you continue to throw out the 'i don't know how an Irish person can....' nonsence. :)
09/05/2006, 11:28 AM
NeilMcD

Sorry Karlos how is it nonsense to want an Irish player to be playing Champions League football over a player who is not from Ireland if I am an Ireland supporter first and foremost. I have a soft spot for Spurs but it does not effect my moods or anything. I got caught up in the chase for Champions League largely to do with Robbie and Andy Reid and Stephen Kelly but especially Robbie as I feel he deserves to be playing Champions League football. But my support for Ireland will always come first and as I said if the roles were reversed and Arsenal had 3 Irish players i would have hoped that they would qualify for the Champions League next season. I am not so sure you would be the same.
09/05/2006, 11:38 AM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I am not so sure you would be the same.

I wouldn't be, there's no need to wonder, you can be sure about that. Arsenal are my club of choice and the club I want to see do well in their foreign league and european competitions regardless of who their opposition is especially as players (irish or not) come and go from all clubs.

Only a hypocrite could spend 20 years of their life supporting a team to suddenly turn around & hope they fail because their opposition have one real Ireland first team regular playing.
09/05/2006, 11:41 AM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

A stray cat could pick out 4 lines of text from my 20 something posts on this & convieniently leave out every single quote I used. Profoundly logical, eh?

After going to all the effort of actually finding my posts, it's a pity you ignored 99.9% of the actual content. :)

If your selective use of quotes to highlight my lack of 'logical argumentation' is the benchmark for 'logical' debating, then there's something really really wrong. :rolleyes:

I'm enjoying this.
I would say that you demonstrate different standards. E.g. for what Arsene says, a proper standard of interpretating his off the cuff quotes in context.
But would you say that your benchmark reached the same level when it came to supporting your allegation that Jol lied? A support that contained a mish mash menage of Jol quotes taken way out of context that only the meanest of interpretations could support your allegation.
Or was it so obviously so badly construed on purpose so that there could be only one conclusion that you were taking the p!ss? A well concealed surprising parody that Arsene sometimes springs on us. :)
09/05/2006, 11:43 AM
NeilMcD

Fair enough and thats personal choice as I pointed out in another thread and nobody should have a go at you for that either. But I do think your posts in relation to the incident with kicking the ball out of play and with sly digs against Spurs as a club should take into account that you are an Arsenal fan first and foremost. I dont see Arsenal as a rival but you clearly do see Spurs as a rival that is the crucial difference. I like Arsenal and as I said if they were playing anybody else other than Barcelona I think I may go for them as Henry is a great player and so is Fabregas etc.

Would you be the same if Spurs were in the Champions League Final.
09/05/2006, 11:48 AM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Would you be the same if Spurs were in the Champions League Final.

I'd have to be honest and say no. Spurs are a bitter rival and always will be. Having run the gauntlet of the seven sisters road after a derby on numerous occassions, I just couldn't bring myself to support them.

However had you said Liverpool or any one of the other 21 teams then the answer would be yes as it was last year for me with Liverpool and will be tomorrow in the UEFA with Boro.
09/05/2006, 11:52 AM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

I'm enjoying this.
I would say that you demonstrate different standards. E.g. for what Arsene says, a proper standard of interpretating his off the cuff quotes in context.
But would you say that your benchmark reached the same level when it came to supporting your allegation that Jol lied? A support that contained a mish mash menage of Jol quotes taken way out of context that only the meanest of interpretations could support your allegation.
Or was it so obviously so badly construed on purpose so that there could be only one conclusion that you were taking the p!ss? A well concealed surprising parody that Arsene sometimes springs on us. :)

tut tut, by the time of that Jol quote your refering to, I thought you would have been firmly aware that the tongue was well stuck to the cheek. :eek:

The other full sensible quotes from Poll, Bruce, Warnock, Wenger, Carrick are there for all to see. :)
09/05/2006, 11:55 AM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

I'd have to be honest and say no. Spurs are a bitter rival and always will be. Having run the gauntlet of the seven sisters road after a derby on numerous occassions, I just couldn't bring myself to support them.

However had you said Liverpool or any one of the other 21 teams then the answer would be yes as it was last year for me with Liverpool and will be tomorrow in the UEFA with Boro.

Again this puts into context your comments regarding the incident in the derby match. You were commenting on it as a Supporter of Arsenal and hater of Spurs. I was commenting it on a person with a soft spot for Spurs and someone who admires Arsenal for the style of football that they play.

I would not let a petty local feud between 2 English clubs stop me from wanting an Irish man to win a Champios League Final.
09/05/2006, 11:58 AM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzo

Sp*rs made this claim in today's Eng.Indy........will post up a link later.
There's no chance of Reid/Kelly playing in the CL regardless, as they're both likely to jump ship over the summer.

You dont know what is going to Happen with Reid and kelly so that is not fact. They may or may not stay but they played on Sunday so they are part of SPurs so there was a chance that they would have played Champions League football next season.

as for the piece in the Indo here you go, not one quote from Spurs. Just speculation by the reporter. You will be doing well to find a quote from Spurs saying they are seeking a replay.

Spurs may seek replay of final game to defuse controversy
By Jason Burt
Published: 09 May 2006
Tottenham Hotspur are considering making a plea to the Premier League for Sunday's match against West Ham United to be replayed. Eight players, and two support staff, fell ill before the game, which Spurs lost, ending their hopes of finishing fourth and qualifying for the Champions' League.

Remnants of a lasagne dish eaten by the players at the Marriott Hotel in Canary Wharf, east London, on Saturday evening were being examined yesterday by environmental health officers. Initially it was feared that the players had suffered food poisoning. Test results are not expected before Thursday, although suspicion has switched to some form of airborne virus or viral gastroenteritis. Colin Perrins, the head of environmental health for the local borough of Tower Hamlets, said: "There are a number of lines of enquiry that are being investigated, one of which is food poisoning."

Spurs officials, who were notified of a problem at 5am on Sunday, had tried to get the game delayed for 24 hours, but their request was refused by the Premier League. They were eventually offered a two-hour delay to help the players to recover but Spurs' medical staff wanted longer. The club, fearing that they could have points deducted if they did not fulfil the fixture, decided to go ahead. Their head coach, Martin Jol, later said that some players had been throwing up in the dressing-room minutes before kick-off.

Six of those affected - Michael Carrick, Michael Dawson, Edgar Davids, Robbie Keane, Aaron Lennon and Teemu Tainio - started the match, which was lost 2-1, letting Arsenal leapfrog Spurs into the lucrative fourth spot, a result that could cost the club �10m in revenue.

Spurs may take legal action against the hotel, if it is found to have been at fault, or even the Premier League. The Spurs chairman, Daniel Levy, is understood to have canvassed the opinion of other club chairmen and to have received sympathetic responses.

Spurs believe that playing the game again would be an option, a move favoured by the club's supporters' trust. However, the Premier League said last night that there was no mechanism in its rules for the game to be played again.

Tottenham Hotspur are considering making a plea to the Premier League for Sunday's match against West Ham United to be replayed. Eight players, and two support staff, fell ill before the game, which Spurs lost, ending their hopes of finishing fourth and qualifying for the Champions' League.

Remnants of a lasagne dish eaten by the players at the Marriott Hotel in Canary Wharf, east London, on Saturday evening were being examined yesterday by environmental health officers. Initially it was feared that the players had suffered food poisoning. Test results are not expected before Thursday, although suspicion has switched to some form of airborne virus or viral gastroenteritis. Colin Perrins, the head of environmental health for the local borough of Tower Hamlets, said: "There are a number of lines of enquiry that are being investigated, one of which is food poisoning."

Spurs officials, who were notified of a problem at 5am on Sunday, had tried to get the game delayed for 24 hours, but their request was refused by the Premier League. They were eventually offered a two-hour delay to help the players to recover but Spurs' medical staff wanted longer. The club, fearing that they could have points deducted if they did not fulfil the fixture, decided to go ahead. Their head coach, Martin Jol, later said that some players had been
09/05/2006, 12:00 PM
NeilMcD

[QUOTE=gonzo]Sp*rs made this claim in today's Eng.Indy........will post up a link later.
QUOTE]

You are wrong they did not make the claim its the reporter. Once again ignorant comments.
09/05/2006, 12:07 PM
NeilMcD

How do you know, you are making allegations about spurs without one shred of fact. You are relying on a journalist to back up your view even though there is not one quote from a Spurs source in the piece. You should learn how to read a paper properly before you make allegations on forums.
09/05/2006, 12:22 PM
Stuttgart88

Chill Neil :)

Speaking of selective quoting I remember Ian Hislop complaining about a selective (mis) quote.

In reviewing a book by Anne Widdecombe he wrote something like "this book is crap, but compared to the turgid crap that Edwina Curry writes, this book is a joy to read".

In the next edition of Widdembe's book the back cover read "A joy to read" - Ian Hislop.

I thought it was funny anyway.
09/05/2006, 12:26 PM
klein4

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

As for banter I dont believe the forums are the place for banter in my view. Its a place for intelligent debate on footballing issues. I have banter with my mates and brothers and work colleagues. I dont come in here to have banter with strangers.

:D :D
Classic McD!!
09/05/2006, 12:30 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Chelsea take note, with their Spackman & Speedie Gates and all that.

I don't get it, need a translation.
09/05/2006, 12:33 PM
Stuttgart88

Don't they have parts of the ground named after Speedie & Spackman. Gates, or stairs, or exits or something like that? True legends of the game alright.

Have I hit your weak spot?
09/05/2006, 12:38 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by klein4

:D :D
Classic McD!!

Classic Klein, does not have the intelligence to make a serious comment so would rather sneer at others and play the hurler on the ditch or the cynic. Which is the role of the ignorant.
09/05/2006, 12:41 PM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

as for the piece in the Indo here you go, not one quote from Spurs. Just speculation by the reporter. You will be doing well to find a quote from Spurs saying they are seeking a replay.

Some of these jorno's are the same ones that wrote all about the Spurs goal at Highbury with great delight. I'm not going over this again but I didn't listen to them then and I'm not listening to them now. This piece is as accurate (i.e. not very) as the piece posted up by you from Clive Tlysdly (sp?) after the Highbury game

You have to take everything they say with a pinch of salt hence why I won't use them to back up an argument.
09/05/2006, 12:46 PM
NeilMcD

I am not listening to them either. Tlysdly's (sic) piece was an opinion piece and not a new piece and there is a difference. Also I was not posting up his piece to back up a view. I just posted up a few pieces by different journalist. I was not saying they were correct or that I agreed with them I was just posting up views that were held in the media thats all.

But to be saying that Spurs are asking for the game to be replayed without 1 quote is ignorant and stupid to the extreme. Then to say you saw it in the English Indo which again does not have any quotes and is just speculation re-affirms the ignorance.
09/05/2006, 12:50 PM
klein4

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Classic Klein, does not have the intelligence to make a serious comment so would rather sneer at others and play the hurler on the ditch or the cynic. Which is the role of the ignorant.

"lies made baby jesus cry"......yes neil "todd flanders" mcD....:rolleyes: :D
hurler on the ditch? I already said spurs were not good enough to get into europe and that arsenal are havin a p*ss poor season by their own standards and that even a champions league win wont paper over the cracks. Arsenal should be challenging for the title not battling out with spurs for a consolation prize.
09/05/2006, 12:51 PM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Again this puts into context your comments regarding the incident in the derby match. You were commenting on it as a Supporter of Arsenal and hater of Spurs. I was commenting it on a person with a soft spot for Spurs and someone who admires Arsenal for the style of football that they play..

I've not once denied my passion for Arsenal Neil. My agenda has been always out on the table as my longer post explained after the said game at Highbury. Others have not been so forthcoming with theirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I would not let a petty local feud between 2 English clubs stop me from wanting an Irish man to win a Champios League Final.

petty local feud maybe but walking away from WHL (and at Old Tafford for the FA Cup Semi) on more than one occaision seeing fans been attacked and children intimidated will never endear me to Spurs regardless of who is playing for them.

Don't get me wrong every club has scum bags but I've had the pleasure of being face to face with these ones on far too many occasissions.

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