We're firmly in the zone of revisionism, but everyone seems to revise the result against Spain, without considering the two groups games we drew. Staunton doesn't play, we beat Cameroon - in my opinion that is clear as day. Staunton over Cunningham was a bad move. And yes I'm biased by his managerial efforts subsequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Then we move into a different progression path. But this is crazy 23 years on
It really has. But I genuinely thought we'd hit the floor and were starting to climb again with the two wins against Finland and Bulgaria. Last night - and equally the first half against Hungary and, feck it, the friendly against Luxembourg - make me fear for how much further we have to fall yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
In the 7 years since Mark Hughes was sacked, Stoke have had 8 permanent managers, incl MO'N, plus 6 caretaker managers. Many of those managers are/were successful before and/or after their time at Stoke. Yet during that time, the club has finished 16th, 15th, 14th, 14th 16th, 17th and 18th, despite being bankrolled by the UK's richest woman (and family).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
When Michael took over, their fans were resigned to getting relegated to Lge One, yet he managed to turn them round and escape the drop. Thereafter, he failed to take them to the next level, but considering the mediocrity associated with the club, there can be no real shame in that, for neither did anyone else.
Meanwhile, he was successful when managing in Scotland and at Shamrock Rovers, and has been outstanding in the NI job, where he will take up his 100th match in charge of the team next month.
Were I an ROI fan right now, I'd be delighted to have a "failure" like that take over.
Absolutely. None of that makes him anything other than a failed Championship manager though. His Scottish "success" was with Brechin City and he managed one Championship team and they sacked him because he took them nowhere. He's a very good fit in terms of the north though, and likely would also be if he happened to manage the Ireland team, which I doubt he ever will. That said, the north just like ourselves haven't made a finals since Euro 2016 and most likely won't be at the next World Cup either.
HH has 98 games as an international manager with a 40.8% win rate. O'Neill has 98 games as manager for NI and a 36.7% win rate.
There's highlights of that game here. I was there so this is the first time i've watched them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Collins was playing DM with Scales and Mark McGuinness at centre back. But it was a similar game to what I would expect to encounter in Lisbon as we were basically trying to hold out at the back and hoping for something from a set piece or a moment of divine intervention.
The Scales sending off had nothing to do with Collins. We were opened up at the start of the second half by a cracking ball from Harry Kane to Jude Bellingham which left Scales completely exposed and he gave away the penalty. But the reason he got sent off was because he had got involved in a ridiculous shoving match with Kane in the first half and the penalty was a second booking.
We had to come out after we went a goal down, and having to do that while a man short left holes all over the shop and they gave us a hockeying in the second half.
But we played very well in the first half of that game and Collins was doing a decent job considering he was up against Jude Bellingham.
It's absolutely worth giving it another go against Portugal imho.
Agreed. Worth pointing out that McGuinness had a very good game until it all fell apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Did he fail Stoke, or did they fail him? You know, just like they've failed every other manager since Pulis or Thordarson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Fact is, when MO'N took over in Nov.2019, they had picked up 8 points in 15 games (= 0.53 points per game) and were seemingly doomed in (I think) 2nd bottom position. Yet he gained 48 points from the remaining 31 games (=1.55 ppg) to finish comfortably enough in 15th. Which repeated over a full season would have been good enough to have made the play-offs.
The following season was disappointing no doubt, but in looking to revamp the whole set-up, not just build a First XI in a dash for promotion, he needed time for his methods to become embedded (plus it was a Covid season). Then when the following season didn't get off to a flyer, the owners panicked and sacked him (to appease the fans, essentially).
Nonetheless, his win rate of 38.46% over 143 league games was better than every one of the other 12 managers before or since.
What, you only "doubt" it? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
We have a good template on how to play Portugal away. ;-) With a stronger squad at our disposal now. But would imagine HH will do something similar to England away - need to close shop, stop the leaky defence, and put points on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Hmmm. The first third of those he was actually Assistant to Lars Lagerback, who did a fabulous job in charge, meaning HH took over the main job on the crest of (Lagerback's) wave. However when it came to it, though HH's win rate was high, he couldn't repeat LL's success of Euro2016 at WC2018, and resigned after the tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Similarly his subsequent win rate for Jamaica looks on the face of it to be impressive, but I can't help wondering about the standard of opposition they tended to face, what with the Reggae Boyz being a bit of a powerhouse in the CONCACAF region. Either way, they flopped when he got them to the 2024 Copa America and he resigned again afterwards.
By contrast, on both occasions when Michael took over the NI job, not only was the team required to compete in by far the toughest Confederation, but the team was at a very low ebb indeed. Therefore it needed a complete rebuild which clearly required time, during which early results were inevitably poor. But as time has gone on (both spells), there have been clear and consistent signs of improvement when, rather than requiring his resignation, the IFA has been desperate to retain him.
None of which to say that HH is a bad, or "failed", manager when contrasted eg with Michael - far from it. But however you rate him, it seems increasingly likely that he's not suited to the ROI job and/or the task at this present time is too big for him, even were he to be otherwise suitable.
Either way, we won't be swapping him for Michael, that's for sure! :cool:
Yes, he failed and they sacked him. This isn't difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
And yes, not knowing the man at all I'm not going to speak on his behalf (nor should you), but as I said I doubt he will ever manage Ireland, as indeed is the case for most of the human population.
You're welcome to him, EG. I wouldn't want O'Neill near us, no offence like. Different levels of expectations. HH's record stands up against O'Neill's and its not good enough. 4-0 Finland, 5-1 Sweden are results that wouldn't really fly with us, but acceptable as a work-in-progress for ye.
I bow to your superior knowledge of Iceland's national football team. I know who Lagerbäck's recommendation was to take over Sweden (before JDT was appointed). And hint - it wasn't Michael O'Neill.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I'm just going to say, that mentally (or perhaps from a self-mental-help perspective), in light of an absolutely disasterous opening weekend to the WC qualifiers, it is an absolute mind-**** for me to find myself nodding and agreeing in the main with EalingGreen & Eirambler across multiple posts and threads.
This could finish me off completely.
I think one of the most concerning aspects of the past few days has been the complete positivity around the camp, the bullishness to the point of certainty and how that completely did not materialise.
Aye, just like eg Alex Ferguson came within a Mark Robins FA Cup goal of being sacked by Man Utd after three years of "failure" at Old Trafford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Anyhow, the failure at Stoke was down to the owners, not the managers (plural) that they continually appoint, then sack. If that's not to difficult to understand.
Having had the honour of meeting and speaking to the man on a couple of occasions, I feel I can say with confidence that wherever else Michael ends up, it won't be in the ROI job - he had a hard enough time working for one bunch of cowboys at the Britannia, to swap for a different set of cowboys at the FAI's Ranch! í ľí´Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Lads the general discussion today has gone from changing the manager to the trials and tribulations of Stoke City back to changing the manager. How about we forget about changing the person in charge of this bunch of misfits who have gotten every manager fired for the last several years, and focus on what is needed for the future?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
The manager is the issue Mark, that’s the way it works. He picks the team. He could have picked a totally different starting 11, and that selection of players would be better than that what’s available to Armenia. Jeez he could have even selected a team all from Cork, and that selection would be better than what’s available to Armenia.
Thing is Michael O'Neill does seem to have a talent for international management, all-be-it, the six county team was very patient with him. And nobody has done a whole lot with Stoke since the Tony Pulis days !Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I mean, it is debatable if Michael O'Neill would ever have been interested in managing the the 26 County team, but was he ever asked ? !
So we are back on the new manager carrousel again? Im not saying we shouldnt be, but its soul destroying to even think of it!
If we are hunting, for me Robbie Keane is the only choice
Ban him!Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman