Jack Grealish

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Originally Posted by SkStu

He can do whatever he likes, just like the northern born players who switch sides to us. Who are we to judge? Allegiance is a pretty big grey area for English born and bred Irish prospects. Just hope that he sticks with us.

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Is it though? Wilson and McClean self-identify as Irish and would have been uncomfortable playing for NI at senior level. NI would kill for a talent like Darron Gibson. I wouldn't put Grealish's importance to England on a pedestal with Gibson's importance to NI. I don't think the issues between Ireland and NI are comparable with any issues between Ireland and England, in terms of eligibility and players switching.

Grealish - at the moment - is playing for Ireland for reasons that are not in any way sentimental.

This fairly puts to bed the notion that it was a childhood dream to play for Ireland!

In all seriousness, if the lad plays for England. I wish him luck. I just really dislike someone playing off both sides like this. It cheapens International football.

Just as an addendum, a few weeks ago I posted something his brother commented on calling Ireland Jack's "International club". I thought it was a strange way to put it at the time..

Stu said he can do what he likes just like those NI players. He didn't say Grealish's nationality is like those NI players.

In your opinion every sentence uttered by any footballer or family member of a footballer is laden with meaning and intent. "International club" could mean he feels close to the team because he has been with them for so long (more likely in my opinion) or it could mean that it's just who he's playing for at the moment. It's ambiguous but not sinister.

Grealish is of mixed heritage and dual nationality. He can, as Stu says, play for who he wants. I hope he plays for us.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Is it though? Wilson and McClean self-identify as Irish and would have been uncomfortable playing for NI at senior level. NI would kill for a talent like Darron Gibson. I wouldn't put Grealish's importance to England on a pedestal with Gibson's importance to NI. I don't think the issues between Ireland and NI are comparable with any issues between Ireland and England, in terms of eligibility and players switching.

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What issues are they? Of course they're comparable. The same rules apply to both situations and a player is free to declare for whichever association he wishes, for whatever reason he wishes, so long as he is eligible. If an association concerned then feels that player is good enough to offer something and is willing to select him, that's up to the association.

I don't see why the possibility of one association deeming a player "more important" to them than to another should generate some coercive influence or pressure upon the player, nor should it be in any way relevant when it comes to a player making a free choice, unless he himself wishes to bring it into his consideration. If NI would love Gibson, too bad; he doesn't want to play for them. If Grealish opts for England down the line, that's also his right. There's no suggestion that that is even likely, but if some Ireland fans have a misplaced sense of entitlement to think he owes them something or to think that their perception of his importance to us should pressure him into sticking with us, they're out of line.

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Grealish - at the moment - is playing for Ireland for reasons that are not in any way sentimental.

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So, he's just a disgraceful mercenary now?... Confiscate his passport! Why do you come out with firebrand nonsense like this?

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In all seriousness, if the lad plays for England. I wish him luck. I just really dislike someone playing off both sides like this. It cheapens International football.

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Be reasonable. Claiming he's playing two sides off against one another is a bit of a stretch. You're being alarmist. He's an 18-year-old dual national presently committed to Ireland. He hasn't said he'll switch to England nor would it appear he is considering it; he merely said, perhaps out of politeness, that he's not to know what might happen in the future.

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Just as an addendum, a few weeks ago I posted something his brother commented on calling Ireland Jack's "International club". I thought it was a strange way to put it at the time..

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What are you getting at? That this implies he might treat international football like club football and is all set for a big "transfer" to England? :rolleyes:

Marc Wilson, James McClean, Shane Duffy and Darron Gibson were all born in this country. Jack Grealish has Irish Grandparents. Wilson, McClean, Duffy and Gibson were all good enough to play for Northern Ireland. Grealish was not good enough to play for England at U-21 level and has received more opportunities with Ireland at every underage level. I haven't even mentioned - nor will I go into - the politics behind Wilson, McClean, Duffy and Gibson declaring for Ireland suffice to say that Grealish's decision to declare - temporarily - for Ireland is not nearly as hot topic an issue. I think the differences are pretty fundamental.

People justify lads like Grealish declaring for Ireland because they feel just as Irish as us and it was us who they grew up supporting or self-identifying as. Then once it comes out that his decision to play for us is based on whether England come calling, they come out with other stuff to justify it. The lad has played for Ireland for 4 or 5 years and has been treated professionally, the least he could do is show a bit of respect back.

I think it's pretty obvious what himself and his brother have mentioned several times and if he had the profile of a Ross Barkley or Jack Rodwell and was playing on loan at a Championship side instead of the worst team in League One, I think we all know where his bread would be buttered.

Yeah. That's basically what this is like. International countries being treated like clubs. Alex Bruce, Johnny Gorman and Alex Pearce have 3 of them for God's sake. At least half-a-dozen lads I can think of born in one country, declare for another then switch back; like the Keane brothers at Man Utd.

It's a joke and I despise Joey Barton but I firmly agree on his views on International football.

I think a lot of this bureaucratic, headwrecking nonsense would be filtered out if they restricted it to parentage instead of Grandparentage.

And if someone with an Irish Grandparent/s really wanted to play for Ireland but they couldn't, then tough. A lot of the lads that declare feel English and Irish as people say. If they were good enough to play for England, I'm sure it wouldn't break their hearts.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Marc Wilson, James McClean, Shane Duffy and Darron Gibson were all born in this country. Jack Grealish has Irish Grandparents. Wilson, McClean, Duffy and Gibson were all good enough to play for Northern Ireland. Grealish was not good enough to play for England at U-21 level and has received more opportunities with Ireland at every underage level. I haven't even mentioned - nor will I go into - the politics behind Wilson, McClean, Duffy and Gibson declaring for Ireland suffice to say that Grealish's decision to declare - temporarily - for Ireland is not nearly as hot topic an issue. I think the differences are pretty fundamental.

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Certainly, the situations of the aforementioned examples differ from Grealish's circumstances, but of what substantive consequence are these circumstantial differences?

Grealish has rejected advances from the FA in the past in favour of sticking with us. You have no way of knowing that his declaration might be "temporary". There is no reason to assume that it is. You're being highly unfair to the lad. Whatever about the reasoning behind particular declarations or switches of association, the same rules apply to all cases. Are you suggesting Grealish should be treated differently or implying that there should be some unique expectation placed upon him due to his particular circumstances as opposed to the circumstances of northern-born Irish nationals or what exactly?

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The lad has played for Ireland for 4 or 5 years and has been treated professionally, the least he could do is show a bit of respect back.

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He is committed and turns up when selected, like a respectful professional. He's been turning up since the age of 14 to play for us. In what way do you feel disrespected?

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I think it's pretty obvious what himself and his brother have mentioned several times and if he had the profile of a Ross Barkley or Jack Rodwell and was playing on loan at a Championship side instead of the worst team in League One, I think we all know where his bread would be buttered.

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No, we don't. You're being unfairly presumptive again.

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Yeah. That's basically what this is like. International countries being treated like clubs. Alex Bruce, Johnny Gorman and Alex Pearce have 3 of them for God's sake. At least half-a-dozen lads I can think of born in one country, declare for another then switch back; like the Keane brothers at Man Utd.

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Well, believe it or not, in this international world, it is possible to be a national of more than one country. Why shouldn't dual or multiple nationalities be recognised? Each is as valid as the other. Besides, Bruce, Gorman and Pearce have never played for a third association and there is nothing within the rules that would permit them to do so. FIFA permit only one formal switch of association prior to a player being capped competitively at senior international level. Associations aren't being treated like clubs.

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I think a lot of this bureaucratic, headwrecking nonsense would be filtered out if they restricted it to parentage instead of Grandparentage.

And if someone with an Irish Grandparent/s really wanted to play for Ireland but they couldn't, then tough. A lot of the lads that declare feel English and Irish as people say. If they were good enough to play for England, I'm sure it wouldn't break their hearts.

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Tell that to James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady.

Whose head is it wrecking? Most people seem fine with the "granny rule". It obviously has continued to exist since its introduction because it is popular. FIFA don't seem overly concerned or burdened by this alleged bureaucratic overload it creates for them either. If those in power had a problem with it, they'd have gotten rid of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JackGreal...=JackGrealish1

From jack.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Marc Wilson, James McClean, Shane Duffy and Darron Gibson were all born in this country. Jack Grealish has Irish Grandparents. Wilson, McClean, Duffy and Gibson were all good enough to play for Northern Ireland. Grealish was not good enough to play for England at U-21 level and has received more opportunities with Ireland at every underage level. I haven't even mentioned - nor will I go into - the politics behind Wilson, McClean, Duffy and Gibson declaring for Ireland suffice to say that Grealish's decision to declare - temporarily - for Ireland is not nearly as hot topic an issue. I think the differences are pretty fundamental.

People justify lads like Grealish declaring for Ireland because they feel just as Irish as us and it was us who they grew up supporting or self-identifying as. Then once it comes out that his decision to play for us is based on whether England come calling, they come out with other stuff to justify it. The lad has played for Ireland for 4 or 5 years and has been treated professionally, the least he could do is show a bit of respect back.

I think it's pretty obvious what himself and his brother have mentioned several times and if he had the profile of a Ross Barkley or Jack Rodwell and was playing on loan at a Championship side instead of the worst team in League One, I think we all know where his bread would be buttered.

Yeah. That's basically what this is like. International countries being treated like clubs. Alex Bruce, Johnny Gorman and Alex Pearce have 3 of them for God's sake. At least half-a-dozen lads I can think of born in one country, declare for another then switch back; like the Keane brothers at Man Utd.

It's a joke and I despise Joey Barton but I firmly agree on his views on International football.

I think a lot of this bureaucratic, headwrecking nonsense would be filtered out if they restricted it to parentage instead of Grandparentage.

And if someone with an Irish Grandparent/s really wanted to play for Ireland but they couldn't, then tough. A lot of the lads that declare feel English and Irish as people say. If they were good enough to play for England, I'm sure it wouldn't break their hearts.

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You're such a bore.

TOWK showing your true colours now
Nothing like a bit of ethnic cleansing for those plastic paddy's

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Originally Posted by Dunners

TOWK showing your true colours now
Nothing like a bit of ethnic cleansing for those plastic paddy's

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There are several past and present English Internationals of Irish descent who are proud of their Irish roots. Declaring for a country is not an indicator of pride in your roots. More often than not it's an indicator of how good you are at football. Not all the time but in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Look at Wayne Rooney. Decks his young lad out in Ireland garb. He plays for England because he is English and good enough.

I don't know how anyone could possibly find my comments offensive unless they are trying.

And as for Jack's comments on Twitter. Lip service and damage control. His comments out of his own mouth are easily decipherable.

I'd say he had a few doubts before Noel King settled his mind.
He's our player to lose, only if we want to lose him.
His twitter comment is clear intent.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

There are several past and present English Internationals of Irish descent who are proud of their Irish roots. Declaring for a country is not an indicator of pride in your roots. More often than not it's an indicator of how good you are at football. Not all the time but in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Look at Wayne Rooney. Decks his young lad out in Ireland garb. He plays for England because he is English and good enough.

I don't know how anyone could possibly find my comments offensive unless they are trying.

And as for Jack's comments on Twitter. Lip service and damage control. His comments out of his own mouth are easily decipherable.

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So, nothing to do with being ineligible after playing a competitive underage international, as the rules were at the time then?

I think there's a degree of ambiguity in all of Grealish's utterances, in the press, on Twitter, wherever. What really irks me is TOWK, not for the first time, interpreting something ambiguous as something completely malignant just because it suits him.

I'd expect TOWK's leaps of faith would all be challenged in a courtroom with the cry of "Objection: speculation" and I'd expect the objection to be upheld. Grealish may well go on to play for England but there is far too much malignant assumption on TOWK's part in this instance. Pure sophism, yet again.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

So, nothing to do with being ineligible after playing a competitive underage international, as the rules were at the time then?

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Maybe. But judging by some of his tattoos, probably not.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Maybe. But judging by some of his tattoos, probably not.

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This one?

http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/92/F14170...81A5EDF63C.jpg

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

There are several past and present English Internationals of Irish descent who are proud of their Irish roots. Declaring for a country is not an indicator of pride in your roots. More often than not it's an indicator of how good you are at football. Not all the time but in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Look at Wayne Rooney. Decks his young lad out in Ireland garb. He plays for England because he is English and good enough.

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Indeed, because he is English too. Are you suggesting there is a contradiction there or are you implying that Rooney's decision to play for England along with his supposed pride in his Irish heritage are irreconcilable and deserving of indictment? As well as having their Irish roots, in which they may well invest a great deal of pride, these players are also English-born and bred. I can't speak for these players nor Rooney personally, but they may even share pride in some sense of Englishness, believe it or not. That does not have to equate or amount to an insult to their shared Irish heritage, which just may not be as domineering and enthralling as we might like to assume it to be from our perspective as non-dual Irish nationals. It would be surprising if players born in England (whether they had Irish heritage or not) had absolutely no interest in representing the country in which they were born and raised.

The problem with your comments is that they're unfairly presumptive. You interpret harshly so that you can judge negatively. You assume to know Grealish's "disgraceful" future intentions - intentions of which he may not even be wholly certain himself at present - based on ambiguous comments and the decisions of some previous unrelated England internationals of Irish descent. As it stands, however, there is no reason whatsoever to assume he's planning on a switch to England. Why attach significance to one set of his words (to which you've also attached an unduly sharp interpretation) but completely dismiss a later clarification? Even if he were to end up switching for whatever reason, there'd be no disgrace in it.

Because he's a wind up. He knows all you're saying.

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

This one?

http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/92/F14170...81A5EDF63C.jpg

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He has another tattoo on his other arm. It's a St. George's cross with accompanying text: "English and proud."

http://archives.deccanchronicle.com/...yne-Rooney.jpg

I fail to see the supposed problem or contradiction, however. He was born and raised in England to parents who were also born and raised in England. Why wouldn't he feel English and proud? It doesn't negate the possibility of him also possessing a sense of pride in his Irish heritage, which is possibly the meaning behind the cross tattoo with Celtic symbolism.

I'd say the meaning behind the Celtic cross is that it's the kind of tattoo people who want tattoos but aren't imaginative to think of something unique to get inked. At least it's not a band, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I'd say he had a few doubts before Noel King settled his mind.
He's our player to lose, only if we want to lose him.
His twitter comment is clear intent.

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Indeed. If he'd been worried about hurting his reputation so as to necessitate what TOWK believes to be a damage limitation tweet - a tweet in response to a solitary fan - he wouldn't have given the interview in the first place. Besides, TOWK is being very selective; Grealish even stated in the piece that he'll stick with us so long as he continues enjoying playing for us. If he's not a masochist to TOWK's liking, fair enough. Who wants to do things they don't enjoy? That seems pretty reasonable. I get the impression TOWK enjoys putting words in people's mouths...

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'd say the meaning behind the Celtic cross is that it's the kind of tattoo people who want tattoos but aren't imaginative to think of something unique to get inked. At least it's not a band, I suppose.

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I suppose you could say this same about this one.

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/42736...ns-reuters.jpg