Thornley used the word 'abuse' in relation to the grandparent rule - have there been examples of this rule being abused?
I think everybody will agree that the residency rule is open to rampant abuse.
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Thornley used the word 'abuse' in relation to the grandparent rule - have there been examples of this rule being abused?
I think everybody will agree that the residency rule is open to rampant abuse.
When someone has 25% Irish blood in his veins, I'd have thought it's a far better qualification than living in Ireland for a few years for, in effect, work/career purposes. Something doesn't sit very well with me regarding the prospect of Jared Payne taking over Brian O'Driscoll's jersey but this is on the back of a season where none of the 4 provinces were coached by an Irishman while the likes of Bernard Jackman, Mark McCall, Eddie O'Sullivan and Conor O'Shea ply their trade abroad. It's very difficult to pin down the cultural identity of Irish rugby. I think maybe that's why Munster supporters tend to be so vociferous.
I'm not all that au fait with the goings on within rugby, but I can't really disagree with any of that. As osarusan mentions, however, Thornley also states that the grandparent rule is being abused.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Just pointing out that Anthony Foley will be the head coach for Munster next seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
I suspect this in part refers to the proposal by New Zealand that players capped by tier one nations, after a certain amount of time has passed, should be allowed to (re)declare for their country of birth or ancestry and continue their international (ie a New Zealand player of Samoan lineage should be allowed to play for Samoa after his All Black career is finished, but not vice versa). It has been opposed by most of the other major unions, including Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I would love to hear about examples of how the grandparent rules are being abused. The rugby buffs on boards.ie are all over such things and would have commented on it if true. Two NZ players who may join Irish teams this year and are Irish qualified are Michael Collins ( not him!) and Brenda O'Connor. Boards members are very confident of their eligibility, maybe Thornley was referring to one of these players? They are often disparaging of Thornley's articles.
On foreign coaches, Schimdt has brought a whole new level of professionalism to the Irish job and unlike Irish coaches has given youth a chance which is a great thing. Munster are the only province with a 100% Irish coaching ticket and it will be interesting to see how they go next season. The reason we have foreign coaches is because they are the best available.
Stutts, on some of your comments above, I agree that the IRB are toothless and are part of the problem with rugby. Their recent handling of the English demands and result in relation to European rugby is an example of this. Such now is the threat to Irish competitiveness in these competitions that the likes of Bundee Aki declaring for Ireland will increase, not decrease. The IRFU know well that people will overcome their misgivings on this issue if teams are ultimately successful. While I understand and appreciate people's opinions, if Aki leads Ireland to a Grand Slam and shows commitment and dedication to the cause like Strauss has, no rugby fan in Ireland will really give a damn.
THIS IS THE FUTURE NOW!
https://twitter.com/irbjuniors/statu...47575823122433
If only beating Fiji and Wales led to such optimism in football.
http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...om-Bohemian-FC
Things didn't work out at Burnley and he ended up back in Ireland with Bohs. Is Yadolahi still at Bohs? is he any good? He's open to playing for Iran.
That thread degenerated pretty quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I didn't even know he'd signed for Bohs. It seems he was released at the end of last season.
Not the greatest article, but get their general point. I think.
http://www.businessinsider.com/world...igrants-2014-6
Not sure why they don't put England in there. Raheem Sterling was born in Jamaica and Danny Welbeck's parents are Ghanaian with both having started against Italy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
no wonder they lost really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
What's your name - Scott Chipperfield? It's an Australian racial furore!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
According to James Richardson on last night's World Cup Daily (at 16:18), on top of their actual 23-man squads, France and Germany are the best-represented nations at the tournament with 16 extra players and 18 extra players participating respectively who would be eligible to play for them except for the fact they are representing other countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I know it's not football, but it has been mentioned on here in the past (I think):
Rory McIlroy ends speculation and declares for Ireland for next Olympics:
http://www.thescore.ie/rory-mcilroy-...24016-Jun2014/
Quote:
RORY MCILROY HAS ended the long-running debate over his Olympic status and finally declared his intention to represent Ireland in Rio.
Bookmakers immediately made him a 7/1 shot to bring home a gold medal for Ireland in 2016.
“I’m very happy with my decision,” McIlroy said this afternoon. “I just thought it was the right thing to do.”
Be more interested in the odds on him 'changing' his mind, when the, er, promises of a premature demise start rolling in?
Paddy Barnes isn't too thrilled about it, going by his twitter account: https://twitter.com/paddyb_ireland
Does Rory pass the Stutts gut test?
No.
But I'd rather have him in our team than not.
I'd rather golf wasn't in the Olympics.
And I hope GMAC hops on board.
Surely any 'gut' test is the sole preserve of darts players.
The best thing about Rory Mac, is the unionist constituency who're convinced he belongs exclusively to them.
Forgetting it's a GB or Ireland team. Or nothing.
GMAC has always been on board, as Paddy pointed out when publicly notifying McIlroy of his having failed the Stutts gut test.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Given that's he's played for Ireland all his career, the natural step would have been to do what his Ulster rugby counterparts do and represent the 32 counties union under which they fall, while maintaining a sense of Northern Irishness. I'm aware the option isn't open to Ulster to play for a United Kingdom side at international level.
Don't some of the IFA fans refer to players as 'bigots' when they opt to play for Ireland and that they are merely further pronouncing the division in the North? Well, it would have been pretty bigoted, in this context, if McIlroy had lined out for the United Kingdom.
Barnes makes one point in his tweets that I have a sort of agreement with. It would be nice to have one out-and-out Irishman in the pair- Shane Lowry or Padraig Harrington. McDowell and McIlroy aren't exactly tricolour-hugging Irishmen, if you pardon any 'bigotry' that may infer.
Hehe, they do. It's a bogus argument anyway, for numerous reasons. But for one, if communal/sectarian division was really their primary concern and trumped the notion of identity for them, why are they so desperate then to maintain partition?Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
I don't think that McIlroy declaring for Team GB would have been a bigoted decision or an indication of bigotry though. He'd simply have been expressing one aspect of his identity in doing so, as would have been his right. He has stated he also feels British, after all.
Hop on board in the sense that he actually gets to Rio. To be honest a victory in golf for Ireland no matter how likely or unlikely will rank as a hollow medal.(No more hollow than our 1996 haul I suppose...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I hate that golf is in it. Hate it.
Bonnie, would agree with you regarding its place in the Games, but it will be one of the most high profile sports and it gives us another possibility of a medal. Someone has to win the synchronised swimming medals, at least golf would certainly be better than that!Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Not too wax on and on about the merits of one sport over another but sports like golf and soccer and tennis which already have their pinnacle (Grand Slams, Majors, World Cup) have no need to be in the Olympics.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Sports such as synch. swimming, athletics, biathlon, archery whose pinnacle is the Olympics should be there. That's my opinion in a nutshell.
But you could also make the argument that sports that are ****, like synch. swimming, also have no need to be in the olympics.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Although in general, I totally agree with you, it's daft that football and golf are in the Olympics, while sports such as squash, climbing, netball, polo, and even ultimate frisbee are not.
If rugby sevens can be in the Olympics so should 20 over cricket.
Think T20 was discussed, but the relative scarcity of pitches/white elephant potential is a problem.
Plus S.Africa would have enough for about 3 decent teams.
If only. I again think that Rugby7s shouldn't be. It's trash to watch. But that's not the point of the Olympics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'd take T20 over that all day everyday. But Cricket hardly needs another tournament.
The ITV commentator on the game between Algeria and South Korea mentioned that 16 players from the Algeria squad were born in France. Kenny Cunningham mightn't approve, but Algeria's footballing resurgence over the last half a decade or so can surely be attributed to quite a significant degree to the 2004 and 2009 rule-changes on switching association as many of their players would have played for France at under-age level.
Completely different circumstances.
Can anyone honestly we are benefiting from our equivalents - Walters, Cox, Green, Keogh - playing instead of say Stokes, Murphy, Meyler, Delaney.
The difference in ability is marginal, and in most cases, they are worse than the players they are keeping out.
Algeria are getting second generation players from a country that regularly schools technically proficient footballers.
Ireland are getting a rag tag collective of players from a country that doesn't produce good footballers, often coming up from League One or League Two.
Ha ha, sadly you're probably right! Well, as of now. Wasn't always the case and could be again...
:(
I was merely mentioning it as the commentator had brought it up and I thought it somewhat relevant to the thread in terms of the impact the rule-change has had upon the fortunes of certain teams in world football. I'm not at all suggesting that we should be content piggy-backing off English academies and relying on second or third generation players at the expense of properly developing the game's infrastructure in Ireland.
Is it, the answer to a question that nobody asked, Alex?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
This is, of course, the country that produced the parents of Samir Nasri and Zinedine Zidane. Maybe if they imported all the French football schooling ethos into Algeria itself they'd become a real conveyor belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
And so the old question remains...nurture v. nature?
I think it was actually Nasri's grandparents who were born in Algeria. I wonder do the more gifted footballers amongst the Algerian diaspora in France generally aspire to play for France primarily or would Algeria be their first port of call? Obviously, Nasri and Zidane favoured France and quite a few of Algeria's current squad opted to play for France at under-age level first before switching (of course, there were numerous others born in France who didn't and who played for Algeria at under-age level), but are they examples of or exceptions to the common trend? Isn't Benzema of Algerian descent too? I recall he caused a bit of a stir within the French far-right after refusing to sing La Marseillaise, but Zidane never sang it either. Do the Algerian diaspora footballers choose France as they identify with a French identity or is it more a case of choosing France to enhance their profile despite maintaining a primarily Algerian identity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Didn't the rules change quite recently, which meant it was easier for the Algerian diaspora to play for them, as mentioned in an earlier post...
Benzema is 3rd generation btw.
As for your question, apart from asking a few French Algerians, guess we'll never know
My very limited knowledge of most N.Africans is Africa first, their host culture second. But as with many immigrant groups, this becomes more diluted over time.
Hehe, they did; I mentioned it just a few posts up. The allowance to switch once up until the age of 21 was introduced in 2004. The age cap of 21 was later lifted completely in 2009, permitting dual nationals to make one switch at any age.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You're spot on in relation to Nasri. Not quite sure how I got that mixed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Tensions between Algeria and France have always been great. In fact, have a read of this article. There seems to be a relationship between France and Algeria similar to that which existed between Ireland and England during the 90's: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ial-past-islam
Then you have the 2005 French riots.
As far as I'm aware, there still exists this under-current of tension. I, by chance, lived with a French chap during college and he was very quick to, errm, castigate the African community in his hometown of Marseille.
Anyways, in relation to the football issue. It actually does appear to be the case that they opt for France first. I guess it probably is something ingrained within the French youth system. If a teenager is plying his trade in Clairefontaine or one of these illustrious academies, he's very unlikely to stick his hand up and say 'Oh, I'm going to play for Algeria, I'm Algerian.'
Interestingly enough, Mehdi Benatia had a cracking season with Roma and is now being linked with a big money move. He played under-18 for France but opted for Morocco at under-20 level. In fairness, he has only really rose to prominence this season and I don't think he'd have been considered for the French senior side when he was playing with Clermont but he'd definitely be a shoo in now had he not chosen to play for Morocco at under-20 level. In fact, he was born to a Moroccan father and Algerian mother.
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-u...-generation-87
Quote:
Olivier Chavanon, Clermont's sporting director, said: "Morocco really wanted Mehdi and so he returned to his origins. Today, he would certainly bring personality and added value to France national team. He is superior to players like Laurent Koscielny, Adil Rami and Philippe Mexes."