Go for the third option and make the magistrate think about breaking the law and fairness in the application of the law.
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Go for the third option and make the magistrate think about breaking the law and fairness in the application of the law.
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
It's a '1984' reference.
I had a read through this: http://ukcyclerules.com/2012/01/04/c...enalty-notice/
The third option might be more hassle than its worth. Plus, I was in the wrong, after all. I was using the pavement because I thought it the safer option rather than to specifically avoid a certain collision. I guess I'm somewhat lucky the Greater Manchester Police offer another alternative in the form of attending the training presentation.Quote:
If you don’t want to pay the fine, the alternative is to request a hearing. As I’ve said above, if you request a hearing and the police choose to proceed with the matter, you’ll be prosecuted in the magistrates’ court.
If you’re right, and what you did wasn’t an offence, it should follow that you’ll be acquitted.
But if you’re wrong (or the court doesn’t accept what you say), you will presumably be convicted and sentenced. Sentences in the magistrates’ court can be significantly higher than if you’d just paid the FPN – as you can see from the case of the man who pleaded guilty to carrying a child on a bike not adapted for the purpose.
So if you’re going to request a hearing on the grounds that you didn’t commit the offence, it’s a good idea to be sure of your position. It’s also a good idea to consult a lawyer – although this may well cost you more than the £30 you’d have to pay for the FPN.
...
What about the situation where you did commit the offence, and the penalty in the notice is right, but when the police officer gave you the FPN it was simply the wrong thing to do in the circumstances?
This point can arise in lots of different ways. I’ll look at a few examples.
You shouldn’t have got an FPN because what you did was justified. For example, if you went up onto the pavement to get out of the way of a lorry bearing down on you, you might have a defence which would mean that riding on the pavement in those circumstances wasn’t against the law (so in other words, you didn’t commit the offence – as I’ve considered above). But the defence is narrowly drawn, so will apply only in rare cases. As I’ve said, if you want to challenge a FPN for this reason, the key thing is to be sure of your position (because if you get it wrong, the penalties in court can be much higher). Again, this is a situation where it will be a good idea to consult a lawyer.
Duh, me! Only copped that.
RE your FPN, If you feel the junction isn't safe then you are justified in using the path. However, I would have dismounted. :P
Out of curiousity can you Google Map the area in question. Wanna have a gander.
Here it is: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=oxf...355.5,,0,13.25
You can see that there is no bicycle lane on the left (it ends here: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=oxf...8,,0,5.85&z=18), but there is on the other side going in the opposite direction.
This junction slightly on up the road is particularly dangerous as there is just no space for a bike at the side of the road when you've got a queue of buses: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=oxf...,,0,-0.36&z=18
Only after that does the cycle path into the city centre recommence: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=oxf...,,0,35.27&z=18
I was travelling in the direction of the tower of the Palace Theatre in the distance of the first street-view. You can see the phone box and the restaurant on the right. Sure, I wasn't technically on the "correct" pavement side anyway, but I know the route and am well aware there's no bicycle path on the road-side across the other side so wouldn't have been where I was had I had that facility. I usually use the left side but came up a different route yesterday as I'd luckily left a bit earlier. Cycling up the pavement on the other side wouldn't have made a material difference anyway as they were stopping cyclists using that admittedly wider side too. If I was going to be using the pavement beside what I thought was an unsafe stretch of road, what difference would it have made anyway as long as I was being careful to avoid pedestrians?
I mean, this designated zone apparently for bikes to wait at the traffic lights is a bit of a joke: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=oxf...,,0,15.35&z=18
Is it just there for show, because there's no way a cyclist can get ahead of traffic when those three lanes are full of queuing cars and buses? And if you wait behind them and travel in line with them, you're inevitably only holding them back. My poor legs can only peddle so fast up that dastardly hill! It much less stressful using the pavement in a careful manner, as I try to do.
It's funny looking at that that it was the Cornerhouse where the bike lande starts as I only heard of it yesterday as they have changed their logo.
http://www.underconsideration.com/br...e_holes_is.php
I don't know Manchester at all and the images from StreetView are 4.5 years old. Can you tell me if the markings on the road are in better shape?
What I will say is that the Bus Lane is a bicycle lane by default generally and the road is much too narrow to incorporate a segregated cycle lane for that stretch that is indicated. There is no reason however for a shared lane to be marked after the point where the bus lane ends. I'd get onto Manchester City Council about that Danny.
The road markings are the exact same, as far as I can make out.
Most cities are notoriously cyclist-unfriendly. It really annoys me when you can get fined for cycling on the pavement, but people can leave their wheelie bins, cars, broken glass and scorpions sitting in the cycle lane with zero consequences.
Christ, broken glass... Don't talk to me about it. That's another issue. I had three punctures in four days one week there not so long ago. I also work early on Saturday mornings meaning I cycle to work before the council have had the opportunity to clear the road-sides and pavements of broken bottles from the Friday night before. It's a hazard course!
Scorpions- Pah. I was attacked by a five headed raptor / buffalo combo beast with while cycling home the other day.
Mind you- this did have consequences. But only for the five headed raptor / buffalo combo beast.
Option 4 - buy a car you hobo. ;)
He has a car don't you know!Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
http://marciokenobi.files.wordpress....og-driving.jpg
That's my old university library beside where Danny got the ticket, and I lost count the amount of times I got a whack from the handlebar of a passing cyclist on the pavement. Not having a go at you Danny by the way, that stretch of pavement has a very high footfall and the bus lane is normally pretty busy so your stuck eitherway. Take the course but complain to the Council, they were pretty decent in any dealings I had with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
The plentiful number of potholes on the roads here as a result of pipe/wire-placing and general decline is also very hard going on the bike. I'll make a list!Quote:
Originally Posted by horton
Is it the same in most cities? I've only ever cycled round Manchester to notice them.
Longer working week, less pay, less flexi time... eh... what's the catch...
Roll on Canada!!
Soooo...
Can we say we've seen and heard it all now...
The South African hair thieves targeting dreadlocks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21498878
Okay, so am I the only one who doesn't find those Bad Lip Reading videos funny? Am I missing something here?!
They're funny once. But not so much after a while.
I wonder what happens when the Word Association thread hits 1,000 pages.
Will foot.ie explode?
Same thing that happens when you google, Google.
Your tricks. They do not work. Or they do, and I feel silly. Either way. Damn you to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Who now for the hatrick?
On my recent Fixed Penalty Notice, it looks like I was caught cycling on the pavement as part of this Operation Dice "clamp-down": http://www.gmp.police.uk/live/nhoodv...C?OpenDocument
Some startling road-death stats, there. And they want to keep me off my paved safe-haven!...Quote:
In the five years 2008/2012 there has been 10 motorcyclists and pedal cyclists killed and 47 seriously injured as a result of accidents with HGVs and buses on the roads of Greater Manchester. In the same period five of those road deaths and six serious injuries occurred where the driver’s vision was affected by the vehicle’s blind spot.
Campaigners say that cyclists, bikers and HGV drivers should take extra care when sharing the road to ensure that they are visible to each other. Drivers should especially watch out for cyclists when turning left.
Cyclists are warned to give HGVs a wide berth and remember that it is safer to be behind a lorry than at the side of it where a driver may not be able to see you clearly, particularly when attempting to turn.
This increased policing focus on road safety is a part of Operation Dice launched at the beginning of 2012 in response to a shocking increase in road deaths in 2011 when 76 people lost their lives on the roads of Greater Manchester. Figures from 2012 demonstrate that 49 people lost their lives, a decrease of 36 per cent on the previous year.
Under Operation Dice Greater Manchester Police is working with other emergency services and partners to increase public awareness of the ‘fatal four’ factors that feature in most road accidents i.e. drink driving, speeding, drivers using mobile phones and drivers and passengers not wearing seatbelts.
It also tackles drivers putting their own lives and that of their passengers and road users at risk through dangerous driving and flouting road safety laws.
Inspector Paul Rowe from GMP’s Roads Policing Unit said; “Stay safe, stay back and be seen is the most important message we can give to cyclists and bikers. They, by the very nature of their mode of transport are especially vulnerable on the roads and should, along with other road users, take extra care when sharing our roads”.
“Visibility is the key factor in many traffic accidents and cyclists and bikers can increase theirs by good road positioning, ensuring they use front and rear lights and wearing high-vis clothing.”
The event will be the start off a police enforcement campaign in which the police aim to educate and advise cyclists. Any offenders issued with a fixed penalty ticket will have the chance to attend a forthcoming educational meeting involving the joint campaigners in which the penalty ticket will be rescinded.
Karen Delaney, from DriveSafe, said “Cyclists do not have the benefits of safety cages, seatbelts or side impact bars, so when a collision occurs it can result in serious injury or worse for the rider.
“A significant number of collisions are down to road users attitude and behaviour. I would imagine that most people know somebody who rides a cycle and we would ask all road users to look out for cyclists and treat them with respect.”
These educational meetings will take place at Withington Fire station from 6:30pm to 8:30pm on Tuesday 19 February 2013, Thursday 28 February 2013 and Thursday 7 March 2013.
Transport for Greater Manchester continues to offer a free cycling refresher course for those wanting to get back on a bike after sometime away. The scheme is specifically aimed at those who want to sharpen their skills in order to cycle to-and-from work and is provided by an expert instructor at flexible times.
There's no need to be worried about getting back on your bike or trying something new with our free cycle training courses for adults.
I actually had to get in touch with Inspector Rowe this morn as I wasn't able to make the "educational meeting" earlier this evening due to work commitments. I hadn't realised it was just the Thursday nights they were being run and not each evening in between as well. The notice was very poorly worded but luckily I called to clarify any ambiguity. He was pretty nice about finding some sort of compromise for me and arranged that I attend my local police station in Longsight - much handier than heading down to Withington - on Monday evening where an officer will deal with me personally - law dee daw - and waive the £30 penalty.
So, I was walking down that canal again with my girlfriend and some of our friends (all female) last Thursday as we made our way to an exhibition that was opening which we both have work in. As often happens we were greeted with the sight of 3 young fellas in hoodies throwing stones at passers by, the girls freaked out a bit, but, we decided it'd be grand, just walk past and ignore them. So as we drew closer, said young fellows all looked at us and started searching around a flower bed they had conquered for stones etc. to hurl at us. The girls walked ahead a little faster and covered their heads as you do, I told them it'd be fine don't worry they're just kids ignore them and you wont get hurt. Naturally I stood between the lady's and the lads just in case something did happen I'd be the 1st point of contact and chances are the girls would be grand.
So, we passed, and as expected the little ****ebags threw a few stones our way, I being a manly man and all, turned around and stared at the fattest of the trio sitting on his bike, probably the ringleader, he looked right at me with absolutely no fear, ''the f*uck are you looking at kid?'' he says to me, I ignore it and keep walking, then I hear a thunderous whack of a stone cracking off a metal bar right above my head, instead of ignoring it and walking on or rushing the girls away, I just told them to keep going it'd be grand, I on the other hand turned to face the three now about 10-15 feet behind us and shouted ''you throw like a b*tch'', naturally that got their attention, and the three stood to attention and started hurling abuse and edged closer to me..
Arms outstretched, I said it again and louder, they didn't like that, various threats were aimed my way, but I decided, you know what screw this, its not Ok to back down and let people think its Ok to act like that, especially throwing stones at girls.. Now I'm not a big guy, I'm about 6 foot and 11 stone but I figured, if they try anything, these lads are 15 yrs old at the most, I should be grand. One of the kids jumped down off the flowerbed armed with a fist sized stone, I thought to myself, right, if I turn away now that's going right at the back of my head and a happy ending will not be had. So, without even thinking, as I seen him attempt to run and fire the stone at me, I sprinted straight for him, (I may not be huge but I am fast) the fear in his eyes was fantastic, he dropped the stone and about face and tried to run away. Meanwhile his fat friend cycled right for me, a little braver than his friend, I kicked his bike full force and panned him out on the ground mid stride as I made after the stone throwing chap.
When I decided I had scared him enough, I let him keep running and turned around, the fat kid was getting up off the ground and actually had the balls to raise his fists at me, Now whatever about scaring them a little,, I didn't want to go as far as actually physically hitting him, and the girls were stood watching pretty scared at this stage, I just walked up to him and laughed in his face, you could see he was terrified but wanted to act like a big man in front of the other two.
We left it at that, I walked away and made sure to point out to him that hes a little pussy and shouldn't throw thing at people, especially not bikes :D The trio then left the canal too, and we later heard that they'd been hanging around there for up on two hours giving people abuse, so at least they gave it up for the night after their encounter with me. Did I do the right thing in getting involved with it? I'm not really the type to get into fights, but I also hate little scumbags like that, so it was a little out of character for me to challenge them, but I'm just sick of how some people think that this is acceptable behaviour, and equally how everyone is generally terrified to intervene.
That's an absolutely fantastic story man. In my eyes, you did the right thing. Most people wouldn't have the balls. You're a hero.
Extra brownie points too I'd imagine ;)
Acornvigilante, more like! You were actually relatively considerate in your reaction. I wouldn't feel guilty or anything about it. You were provoked, riled up and defended a group of ladies from a trio of menaces with a response that demonstrated a degree of diligence. (I hope they were bloody impressed!) I don't think I'd have the balls to do something like that myself, mind.
Have you any photos of your work, by the way? Is it paintings you do or what?
Not having a go at you either, but just an interesting observation; people will often attempt to justify or rationalise acts they have performed and about which they may feel morally uncertain by appealing to the somewhat disingenuous "it was out-of-character" defence, lest others might think less of them. I'm not saying you're a nasty character or anything of the sort, but, obviously, there was some trait within your character that enabled or caused you to respond in the manner you did. And that's nothing to be ashamed of. Does anyone live a life of moral purity? You dealt with the situation as you saw fit, with due force and constraint, and I think that's commendable along with the bravery you demonstrated, given the circumstances. Where did this happen, by the way? Limerick?
Never been more annoyed at being excited in my life.
Expecting my first kid with the girlfriend in August. Which is awesome. Terrifying, but exciting.
Tame Impala are playing two weeks before she's due, Roger Waters two weeks after she's due. And it's right in the middle of festival season. Not to mind Harps are playing Cobh away on the day she's due.
Priorities eh?
Nigel, the best thing in the world is seeing your child being born, beats anything else, anything at all. Don't focus on the event, just focus on herself, make sure she gets as much sleep now as possible (you too) as it'll be much needed come September!
So you got Tame Impala tickets then? Excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Acornvilla, you legend.
Gays.
Appreciate the advice Spud. Of course, there's very little else that matters now..Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
...but it's the WALL. ;)
In all seriousness, there's very little else on my mind for more than half an hour before again realising I'm going to be a father.
Why are they on your mind Dunny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunny
Happy people? Just cnuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
More Hegartys!Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Eek!
March Madness is in full swing here. Here's hoping its better than Freaky February, the only thing that can describe the Ireland forum over the last month! :)
Arguments in favour of Acornvilla being Jesus:
Exhibit 1: He walks on water:
Exhibit 2: He fearlessly stands up for the downtrodden. Jesus by wrecking a temple, Acornvilla by kicking a fat guy off a bike.Quote:
So, I was walking down that canal again
Exhibit 3: Adopts the same stance:
Now if one of those girls was a hooker that pretty much seals the deal.Quote:
Arms outstretched, I said it again and louder
So Acornvilla- the good news is that people will still be talking about you in 2000 years. The bad news is that they'll ignore your actual message and you're not going to like what happens to you when you're 33.