Eligibility Rules, Okay

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Aren't you contradicting yourself then?

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No - absolutely not.

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Originally Posted by gastric

NB, what is your opinion of James McClean? My view is that this is a player, who as a person from NI felt that he should represent his own association. Then, having played for NI, realised that maybe this wasn't really for him. He then decided to change association, which under FIFA rules is totally acceptable. How does such an individual fit into your view of things?

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McClean has apologised to the South's fans for having played for "da north".

If a player's genuine and honest intention is to represent the IFA throughout their international career, and later changes their mind, that's a risk that has to be lived with.

In the case of various defectors to the FAI, they have told the world that it was always their dream to play for the FAI.

It is those players that the IFA needs to deal with.

I have detailed how they should deal with it, and how they can assist such payers facilitating their career preference at Under 19 level.

Of course, the door to the IFA remains open to those players expressing a preference for the FAI, should they change their mind at a later date - as per current FIFA rules.

For players that are not sure about their intentions, they can always let the IFA know when they are sure.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Why, then, would a player have to request a change of Association at all, if he hasn't played a senior International for any Association - providing they are eligible to play for the Association they now wish to represent?

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Not being bound to an association is not the same as being an eligible free agent.
Just because a dual national player capped at underage level is not bound to his first association, does not mean he can bi-pass a paper trail.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Not being bound to an association is not the same as being an eligible free agent.
Just because a dual national player capped at underage level is not bound to his first association, does not mean he can bi-pass a paper trail.

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Let's recap.

I'm a Northern Irish born player, with an English father.

I play for Northern Ireland Under 19s competitively.

I make a written request to change Association to the FAI - I play competitely at Under 21 level for them.

I then decide that's not for me, and make a written request to switch back to the IFA - I play for the IFA's Under 21s.

The FA approach me to play for England, and I make a written request to change Association to the FA.

I play in a friendly Senior International for England.

We're saying all of that is ok, but I now cannot change Association again as I have played a Senior match for England?

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Let's recap.

I'm a Northern Irish born player, with an English father.

I play for Northern Ireland Under 19s competitively.

I make a written request to change Association to the FAI - I play competitely at Under 21 level for them.

I then decide that's not for me, and make a written request to switch back to the IFA - I play for the IFA's Under 21s.

The FA approach me to play for England, and I make a written request to change Association to the FA.

I play in a friendly Senior International for England.

We're saying all of that is ok, but I now cannot change Association again as I have played a Senior match for England?

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Have boots will travel.

Most probably a 'Senior A Friendly' does not bind you.

As long as you had the nationality of the other country at time you were capped for your first association, you can play for the other associations.

1. "and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in aninternational match in an official competition for his currentAssociation, he already had the nationality of the representativeteam for which he wishes to play. "
   
   Before you played for NI you already had Irish nationality and you were eligible under article 16 to play for England. You are eligible to play for IFA, FAI and the FA.

What stops your wanderlust with a bullet, according to Article 18 is playing at

1. 'officialcompetition at “A” international level'

British nationality is good for 4 association. A similar situation applies for an English born player, with a Scot father/Welsh mother and NI born grandparents. He is eligible to play for 4 associations, according to article 16.
But he is bound to one, when he is
capped at 'official competition at “A” international level'.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I believe "circa 1923" is very significant in the context of why there isn't a singular All Ireland team, unlike most other sports.

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So you agree with me now then? Make your mind up!
;)

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

f a player's genuine and honest intention is to represent the IFA throughout their international career, and later changes their mind, that's a risk that has to be lived with.

In the case of various defectors to the FAI, they have told the world that it was always their dream to play for the FAI.

It is those players that the IFA needs to deal with.

I have detailed how they should deal with it, and how they can assist such payers facilitating their career preference at Under 19 level.

Of course, the door to the IFA remains open to those players expressing a preference for the FAI, should they change their mind at a later date - as per current FIFA rules.

For players that are not sure about their intentions, they can always let the IFA know when they are sure.

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Why don't you just cut and paste as your signature;a bit more appropriate than a fluke result 7 years ago...
:rolleyes:

Mick McCarthy has just been referred to as an English manager. Just thought I'd share that. It oddly hurt my brain.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Have boots will travel.

Most probably a 'Senior A Friendly' does not bind you.


As long as you had the nationality of the other country at time you were capped for your first association, you can play for the other associations.

1. "and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in aninternational match in an official competition for his currentAssociation, he already had the nationality of the representativeteam for which he wishes to play. "
   
   
   
   
   Before you played for NI you already had Irish nationality and you were eligible under article 16 to play for England. You are eligible to play for IFA, FAI and the FA.
   

What stops your wanderlust with a bullet, according to Article 18 is playing at

1. 'officialcompetition at “A” international level'

British nationality is good for 4 association. A similar situation applies for an English born player, with a Scot father/Welsh mother and NI born grandparents. He is eligible to play for 4 associations, according to article 16.

But he is bound to one, when he is
capped at 'official competition at “A” international level'.

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The relevant Statutes are no longer known as Articles 16 and 18.

I'm well aware that once you play a competitive senior international match, you are handcuffed to that Association.

I'm struggling with the number of times you can request a change of Association bit.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

So you agree with me now then? Make your mind up!

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I haven't changed my mind, so therefore there is no need for me to make my mind up.

It has always been my contention that the formation of the FAI in "circa 1923" was a major factor in why there isn't a singular All Ireland team, unlike it most other sports, who were formed on, and remain on, an All Ireland basis.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Mick McCarthy has just been referred to as an English manager. Just thought I'd share that. It oddly hurt my brain.

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Owen Coyle is constantly referred to as a "Scot" by the English media. I cringe inside every time I see it, but it's understandable why they describe him as so. McCarthy being described as an English manager is far more irritating though.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Mick McCarthy has just been referred to as an English manager. Just thought I'd share that. It oddly hurt my brain.

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I'd be more concerned with the manager part. :)

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I haven't changed my mind, so therefore there is no need for me to make my mind up.

It has always been my contention that the formation of the FAI in "circa 1923" was a major factor in why there isn't a singular All Ireland team, unlike it most other sports, who were formed on, and remain on, an All Ireland basis.

:rolleyes:

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Surely at least the FAI tried to work on an All Ireland basis by demonstrating their willingness to embrace teams and associations in the north. :wink:

That's not when they're up against parties more interested in rewriting their own form of 'history'...

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I haven't changed my mind, so therefore there is no need for me to make my mind up.

It has always been my contention that the formation of the FAI in "circa 1923" was a major factor in why there isn't a singular All Ireland team, unlike it most other sports, who were formed on, and remain on, an All Ireland basis.

:rolleyes:

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My understanding is that the FAI established themselves in 1921 with the purpose of replacing, rather than splitting from, the Belfast-centric IFA, whom those founding the FAI also perceived to possess a sectarian bias, as the all-island association. However, this ambition was never realised when the FAI were admitted to FIFA as the FAIFS in 1923 based on the 26-county jurisdiction of the Irish Free State.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I'm well aware that once you play a competitive senior international match, you are handcuffed to that Association.

I'm struggling with the number of times you can request a change of Association bit.

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All you are struggling with are your own assumptions.
Just start with understanding what defines and binds a change, the rest falls into place.


Possibly there will be one player in ten thousand who would follow that hypothetical zig zag example of yours. Generally one doesn't have to legislate against a problem which doesn't exist. The basic FIFA principle is, if a player is not capped at senior competitive level he can still chose another eligible option.

Heh, except that's way too logical for some...

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Originally Posted by geysir

Just start with understanding what defines and binds a change, the rest falls into place.

The basic FIFA principle is, if a player is not capped at senior competitive level he can still chose another eligible option.

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In FIFA man's response to JD earlier, and in your post numbers 3035, 3040, and 3046, no mention is made of "competitive".

I'm absolutely clear about what "binds" a change, but am still scratching my head about "defines" a change.

The expression used by FIFA in relation to requesting a change of Association is "only once....."

McClean hadn't played a senior international match for the IFA - yet we had some panty ****ing about delayed paperwork needed to effect his change of association. To my mind, he has now changed Association once, and the rules permit such a change only once.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

My understanding is that the FAI established themselves in 1921 with the purpose of replacing, rather than splitting from, the Belfast-centric IFA, whom those founding the FAI also perceived to possess a sectarian bias, as the all-island association. However, this ambition was never realised when the FAI were admitted to FIFA as the FAIFS in 1923 based on the 26-county jurisdiction of the Irish Free State.

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Not sure how they intended "replacing" an Asociation that had no intention of being replaced.

Anyway, semantics.

The FAI split association football on this island, happy, ultimately, to develop as a partitionist Association.

Yes. Of course. You were around then to hear them say that?

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Yes. Of course. You were around then to hear them say that?

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Are you now in denial that the FAIFS joined FIFA in 1923, and in so doing agreed that they could only adminiister/govern football in the 26 Counties of the Irish Free State, therefore becoming a partitionist Association?