Attendances 2024

PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,506 (3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 962 (1,035; 1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,246 (2,162; 2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140; 1,125; 1,110)

In 9 of the last 12 seasons, the PD avg has been under 2,500 overall, now its not far off the overall average for all LOI games, some increase ! As is the PD avg of 3,500, the 4 Dub clubs to be fair have dragged that up.

The club said 370 for Bray v Athlone. I'd take at least 100 off that. I'd say it was between 250-270

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Originally Posted by Green&whitearmy

The club said 370 for Bray v Athlone. I'd take at least 100 off that. I'd say it was between 250-270

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Jaysis that’s a shocking attendance even for a Thursday night,2 teams that are 3rd and 4th in the table aswell….

Dont know if we count friendlies, but 3000 in Bishopsgate for Longford Town legends v man u legends today.

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Originally Posted by LTFC

Dont know if we count friendlies, but 3000 in Bishopsgate for Longford Town legends v man u legends today.

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200 more than Longfords last 8 home league games combined. Says a lot about the sporting public in the area.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

200 more than Longfords last 8 home league games combined. Says a lot about the sporting public in the area.

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I suppose so, but being a really disappointing season for us so far.
The club put a good bit of promotional work into the game today and that paid off.

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Originally Posted by LTFC

I suppose so, but being a really disappointing season for us so far.
The club put a good bit of promotional work into the game today and that paid off.

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Yeah very impressive. Program for the game is a bargain for 176 pages at a tenner. Think very close to selling out. My only worry is if this 3rd tier is brought next year and we finish bottom again and promotion/relegation is introduced between the leagues it could be the death nell of us!

Heard at game that Willie Tyrrell interviewed for town job with Tom O Connor and got to last three. Willie is Irish PT scout for Norwich City.
If I was Wayne Groves I would be onto Dave Sully as he was superb. Hes still playing for Wicklow Rovers!

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

200 more than Longfords last 8 home league games combined. Says a lot about the sporting public in the area.

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The Man Utd fans seemed to come from all over the country even from abroad and the North.

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Originally Posted by Martinho II

The Man Utd fans seemed to come from all over the country even from abroad and the North.

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Exactly that,put Man Utd on the front of something in this country and you’ll add a few to the gate …

Uness you are Dundalk FC and manage to not sell out a game bewteen Man Utd as EPL champions and Dundalk as LoI champions by pricing the pre season friendly with a number of other games like 3 home league games so making the cost of a preseason friendly ticket unaffordable to many, both Dundalk and MUFC fans in a pre boom and off the back of a bust economic era. A lot less witnessed a Cantona penalty saved by Van Boxtel than is claimed today!!

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Originally Posted by oriel

PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,506 (3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 962 (1,035; 1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,246 (2,162; 2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140; 1,125; 1,110)

In 9 of the last 12 seasons, the PD avg has been under 2,500 overall, now its not far off the overall average for all LOI games, some increase ! As is the PD avg of 3,500, the 4 Dub clubs to be fair have dragged that up.

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At the half way mark, it seems PD crowds are up by 6% on the same stage in 2023 - encouraging stuff:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024...ime-last-year/


Interestingly IL Premiership crowd increases have broadly mirrored those of the LOI (percentage-wise) in recent years, both pre- and post-Covid. Yet they levelled off in 2023/24 compared with 2022/23: 1,591 vs 1,588 (12 team Division):
https://www.irishleaguesupporters.com/attendances.php

Not to derail the topic but is there any appetite for moving to a 10-team league up north Ealing?

I think the Irish League suffers badly with how much weaker the bottom 2-3 clubs are generally. Some very low points totals in the division the last couple years.

Think the 10 team league has accelerated the improvement of the league vs what we would have seen post COVID worth a 12 team division.

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Originally Posted by yurt

Not to derail the topic but is there any appetite for moving to a 10-team league up north Ealing?

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Don't honestly know, tbh, but I suspect not.

This is because with 10 teams, you end up playing each other 4 times a season, to bring the season up to 36 games. The present system allows each team to play 38 games i.e. 27 regular games (= 3 times each), plus another 11 post-split. Which also means more competitive, meaningful games as these post-split games feature the top six playing each other for the title and Europe etc. While the bottom six jostle to avoid relegation against (mostly) similar standard teams.
And when you consider that the set-up also has a reasonable quota of other popular competitions - Irish Cup, League Cup, County Antrim Shield etc, all of whom feature the top few teams in the latter stages (at least), I think the fear is that a smaller division would just become more of the same-old, same-old between the same few teams.

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Originally Posted by yurt

I think the Irish League suffers badly with how much weaker the bottom 2-3 clubs are generally. Some very low points totals in the division the last couple years.

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One certainly, often two, but I'm not sure it's ever three?

While the fact of there being 12 teams improves the chances of new(ish) teams like Loughgall, Ballinamallard, Warrenpoint, Newry etc coming up to freshen things up, for two or three seasons, at least. For example, the pretty dire Portadown team which was relegated after 2022/23 drew an average attendance of 946 - very poor for a team/town of that size (imo). Yet their replacements from Loughgall (pop.300) actually drew an average crowd of 748!
Obviously this was heavily boosted by away fans fancying a new trip etc, and is likely to fall off once the novelty wears off, esp if the team is struggling on the field (they were comfortable enough this time). Nonetheless I think most would agree they're a welcome addition, but they'd have been so much less likely to get there if they were struggling for one of ten places, I'd guess.

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Originally Posted by yurt

Think the 10 team league has accelerated the improvement of the league vs what we would have seen post COVID worth a 12 team division.

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There are advantages to each, I agree, and maybe 10 is more suitable for the LOI because of the higher number of full-time teams you have amongst the ten. And I know I bang on about this ad nauseum (sorry), but the lack of a proper pyramid perhaps means your talent and resources are more heavily concentrated amongst a relatively smaller number of teams?

Whereas in NI, our talent and resources are obviously so much lesser, but perhaps they're more widely spread (beyond the top 3 or 4 teams, at least)? In which case a 12 team set-up is preferable. Remember, too, that the Championship also has 12 teams, while the Intermediate (3rd tier) has 14 teams(!), though that is anomalous for reasons too complicated to mention, and I think will be reformed.

I guess it's "horses for courses"?

Avoid ten teams at all costs. It's so damn boring playing everyone 4 times a year. It's no wonder crowds drop off badly at this time of year, the real run in has not begun but you're already seeing teams for the third time.

Yeah a 12 team league with a mid-season split with Championship and Relegation would be best in my opinion!

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Avoid ten teams at all costs. It's so damn boring playing everyone 4 times a year. It's no wonder crowds drop off badly at this time of year, the real run in has not begun but you're already seeing teams for the third time.

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Originally Posted by Buller

Yeah a 12 team league with a mid-season split with Championship and Relegation would be best in my opinion!

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Interesting - I had suspected there might be something in that, but am not qualified to say so.

Munster Senior Cup Final
Turners Cross
Monday 24th June 2024
Waterford 2 Kerry 1
Att. 2/300

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Avoid ten teams at all costs. It's so damn boring playing everyone 4 times a year. It's no wonder crowds drop off badly at this time of year, the real run in has not begun but you're already seeing teams for the third time.

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I aint a fan of the ten team league, I do ackowledge that it mean there is little space for absolutely nothing games by and large. I dont think that fans think oh Ive already seen us play x twice already so Im not bothering to go to that fixture again. If there is something to play for I dont feel fans groan 'not them again' unless its a bogey side or vastly superior so its a not a contest. The dip in summer gates is multifaceted as we know. Im still not totally convinced that attendance growth is forever and a day. The surge has or will peak and then decline, not to pre surge levels probably, bot novelty wears off, fomo drops etc. Throw in the old nuggets of holidays, family committments et al. I dont want repetative fixtures myself but id have it fairly low on the reasons for the summer drop off.


But Ive just watched 7 Stanley Cup games between the same two sides and never questioned the repeat games and enjoyed the intrigue and almost Oilers comeback. So horses for courses I suppose.

Since Galway and Waterford started drawing good crowds and playing well, I think we could make a 12 team top tier work.

We currently have 11 teams who can both be competitive and draw a crowd i.e. the 10 PD sides, plus Cork. You could probably put Harps into that box as well - at least in terms of a crowd anyway. The problem with a 10 team league is that it results in at least one well-supported - and always non-Dublin - team being outside the top tier. And again - sinnce the ascent of Galway and Waterford, it means you have 2 such teams outside the top tier.

My personal preference would be to see all the better supported teams together (thereby amplifying each others attendances)

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Since Galway and Waterford started drawing good crowds and playing well, I think we could make a 12 team top tier work.

We currently have 11 teams who can both be competitive and draw a crowd i.e. the 10 PD sides, plus Cork. You could probably put Harps into that box as well - at least in terms of a crowd anyway. The problem with a 10 team league is that it results in at least one well-supported - and always non-Dublin - team being outside the top tier. And again - sinnce the ascent of Galway and Waterford, it means you have 2 such teams outside the top tier.

My personal preference would be to see all the better supported teams together (thereby amplifying each others attendances)

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Thats everyones ideal most likely. But I cant get away from the need of merit based promotion/relegation, it needs to happen by a kind of coincidental coming together rather than trying a cherry picking restructure. Im not saying this is the suggestion but UCD win promotion regularly and inadvertantly will exclude a 'bigger' club. Ok Dundalk fans will balk at restucturing talk considering our own exclusion due to off field decisions and a Galway DVD and that all worked out very well indeed for Galway after and in the end Dundalk just got back to the top of the game again on merit anyway (5 leagues, 3 FAI Cups, 3 League Cups, 2 European group stages since - yes we like saying it but it does illustrate a point, in comparison to the club/s picked based on 'potential' ahead of us and on field merit). I cant think of a better time than this season to exand the top division this year, no relegation and 2 up!!

But yeah imo we would just have to hope that 12 of the best supported sides happen to be in the Premier Division.

A 12 team PD would be good, but its the games series set up that's the problem, 33 just doesn't work, plus you could be away to bigger clubs twice in one season that you are challenging etc.

36 games right now is about just right, unless they did something like the SPL, (12 teams) then split and run to 38 games, but splits are not everyones cup of tea, not sure I`d like to see that return.

It was horrible when it was tried but I think now there would be some effort to incentivise being top of the lower half of the split along with winning a relegation battle. I agree on the 33 games, meaning being away twice to some clubs, efforts to rotate that annually were daft. Only thing I can think its play home and away and maybe then a draw for the 3rd round? or some sort of seeding, head to head in earlier rounds?

I should have mentioned in a previous post that the sense of playing side too often in a 10 team format also has to do with schedulig and the weighting of almost 3 rounds done by midsummer. I know its to help with fiture congestion if teams progress in Europe but it seems to lack balance also.

There isn't yet enough depth in the FD for as 12 team top flight. The current Cork team would go straight back down while the rest aren't in the same parish as the 10 current PD clubs.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

There isn't yet enough depth in the FD for as 12 team top flight. The current Cork team would go straight back down while the rest aren't in the same parish as the 10 current PD clubs.

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Somebody has to get relegated though. All 3 of the most recently promoted clubs in the English Premier went straight back down agai this season after1 year, for example. So if the team who finish top of the FD can't then sustain themselves in the tier above, then so be it. That's football.

Not to mention you'd somehow have to rustle up two new First Division clubs to avoid an eight-team second tier - perhaps Kildare and either Carlow or Mayo might eventually step up, but not aware of those clubs having any senior intentions for now (unless the third division does somehow begin in 2025)?

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Originally Posted by outspoken

There isn't yet enough depth in the FD for as 12 team top flight. The current Cork team would go straight back down while the rest aren't in the same parish as the 10 current PD clubs.

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I'm minded of when Bart Simpson was put in the remedial class -

https://y.yarn.co/6dc17a3e-9055-447b...80170_text.gif

Expanding the Premier would help some clubs currently in the First.

But while I'm generally not in favour of a ten-team league, it's clearly the best option while we only have 20 clubs in the league and massive difficulties getting anyone else to join (and not go bankrupt while doing so)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Expanding the Premier would help some clubs currently in the First.

But while I'm generally not in favour of a ten-team league, it's clearly the best option while we only have 20 clubs in the league and massive difficulties getting anyone else to join (and not go bankrupt while doing so)

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** Paging Irish Sea F.C, Come-in Irish Sea F.C.......**

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

** Paging Irish Sea F.C, Come-in Irish Sea F.C.......**

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Any chance we of reviving one of the following,

Newcastle West
Thurles Town
Salthill Devon
Mervue United
St. James Gate
Home Farm
Monaghan United
Transport
St. Francis
Kilkenny City
Albert Rovers.........?

That's a Division of its own there

:confused:

Why would you look to revive clubs who couldn't keep going in the LoI?

I personally love the idea of watching a game in front of 30 people in Drom again.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Why would you look to revive clubs who couldn't keep going in the LoI?

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I do think the league is in a generally healthier state now, where some of those clubs could make a better fist of it, and not blow up. Maybe Monaghan with Cavan, Kilkenny with Carlow and some form of Kildare job linked with the university side will be sustainable in the long term. Same goes for the new Mayo entity. We have a lot of large population centers, far larger than a lot of current LOI clubs that definitely in theory could support professional football, but it is all wishful thinking really for now.

As long as the FAI continues to invite regional underage sides and gives them time to build up multiple age groups it will build communities, I think we will have a handful more clubs who can do a Kerry within the decade. Things are far more likely to be sustainable if they have community involvement and teams from u13-20 on the men's and women's side before pushing in to senior football. That's where you get your fanbase and volunteers and how you'll survive the difficult transition.

I'd love us to be in a position to have 24 "senior teams" making two leagues of 12, with a regionalized amateur pyramid below. Talk of a 3rd tier by the original date was so unbelievably ambitions I figured they must have had a plan and clubs in mind, but evidently not.

I think we're on the right track, but lord that Simpsons reference you mentioned rings true.

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Originally Posted by Acornvilla

I think we will have a handful more clubs who can do a Kerry within the decade.

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I think by and large I agree with your post, but on this bit it should be noted Kerry haven't done anything that the clubs in nr637's post didn't manage either...

You're not wrong. Their next step is as important as any that have happened before. If they start spending to chase success it could all end very badly very quickly, but with a patient approach I feel like they'll be ok, the stadium being within another stadium is very weird thou and I'm not sure how suitable the whole situation is in the long term, but I guess that comes back to facilities and investment and the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Missing:
Longford v Treaty - 13th May

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Now showing as 218 on connect.

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Originally Posted by Acornvilla

You're not wrong. Their next step is as important as any that have happened before. If they start spending to chase success it could all end very badly very quickly, but with a patient approach I feel like they'll be ok, the stadium being within another stadium is very weird thou and I'm not sure how suitable the whole situation is in the long term, but I guess that comes back to facilities and investment and the bigger picture.

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True - though on the flip side their form is rubbish and there's only so long you can keep interest while rooted to the bottom of the table (which happened with the other clubs too). Crowds are already well off the first half of last season (which was always to be expected in fairness) and that's the way to a slippery slope. Part of the problem, as ever, is they've no lower division to go to to regroup and be successful for a while; get a bit of interest back.

Our form is not rubbish. We've won our last 3 at home and we're not rooted to the bottom of the table either.

I take back won last 3 at home. Ucd of course ended that run

I had a program stall at a football program fair a few weeks back and was told by a ex Monaghan Utd fan that I have not seen in years that the chances of Monaghan-Cavan getting in the loi 3rd tier is very strong. The appetite seems very strong up north at present. Would be good to see them back in it imo!

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Originally Posted by listowelceltic

Our form is not rubbish. We've won our last 3 at home and we're not rooted to the bottom of the table either.

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Last and second last in the First Division in two seasons is pretty rubbish in fairness.

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Originally Posted by Martinho II

I had a program stall at a football program fair a few weeks back and was told by a ex Monaghan Utd fan that I have not seen in years that the chances of Monaghan-Cavan getting in the loi 3rd tier is very strong. The appetite seems very strong up north at present. Would be good to see them back in it imo!

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Monaghan United might fancy the third tier but the Monaghan/Cavan underage project failed miserably.