If that happens let him off. We always have a conveyer belt of the Hogans, Will Keanes and James Collins standard players. If Obafemi is that standard would we really miss him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
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If that happens let him off. We always have a conveyer belt of the Hogans, Will Keanes and James Collins standard players. If Obafemi is that standard would we really miss him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Obafemi has elite pace and is a good finisher. His ceiling is obviously higher than Hogan/Collins. Keane I think is a different case altogether as I think he probably would have made it at a higher level before injuries. May still play at a decent enough level as this comeback of sorts continues. If Obafemi doesn't want to play for us, fair enough, but I think if he wants to play for us, he could be a very valuable option in the coming years.
He also has a history of hamstring injuries so he may not always have that elite pace. Yes his ceiling is of course higher than the 3 I mentioned, but not long ago I thought his floor was going to be lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Dont get me wrong, I absolutely want to have him on board, he could be brilliant but his current run of form doesnt mean we should all get carried away either worrying that he'll defect to England
You've touched on what our inner fears really are. .. does he refuse a call up in June to rest his legs ... it would be insane to tolerate that and continue to entertainment him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
There'll be four weeks between the end of the championship and first game in June, unless he's actually injured he should be told good luck and goodbye if he doesn't accept a call up. You can give him a modified training schedule so he's not training as hard as the rest of the team, he already has that at club level but there should be no reason he refuses a June call up unless he's injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Im not a big fan of ultimatums. If he refuses a call up in summer because he says he is resting but starts banging in goals at start of next season and says hes now available do we then say no you've had your chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Lets see how it goes, it may all be a storm in tea cup and what Kenny said is 100% true. Thats why I said in my original post that Im kinda over worrying about these situations because the player is rarely as good as we think or rarely switches.... Rice and Grealish being the obvious exceptions.
As the years go on we are going to have more and more scenarios where even players born in Ireland will have genuine decisions to make due to family heritage etc. We need to get past the old way of thinking that Nationality is a simple decision for everyone and as fans we are probably going to have to stop freaking out every time a lad wants to think about it for a while.
Yes - it's going to get worse in future if anything. As things stand we have yet to lose an Nigerian-Irish player to Nigeria that I am aware of. That may change but for the most part, while many Nigerian-Irish may have a quiet preference for Nigeria (as Ogbene did), it's a lot more practical to play for Ireland than Nigeria - travel distance, organisation levels in the country, timings of games etc.
Whereas the next generation of Irish born dual nationals will be from Polish, Lithuanian, Slovakian and other European backgrounds. Much easier for them to play for the country of their parents. That's where it's going to get really difficult convincing them that Ireland is the country they should play for.
Daniel Jinadu, Barnsley's 3rd keeper has lived most of his life in Ireland but is a Nigeria underage player and played in the u17 world cup for Nigeria. Saying that, I think we'll lose some dual eligible keepers over the next 5-10 years considering the options we have. Good luck breaking in ahead of Bazunu, Kelleher and Travers. Rory Brown began switching back to Northern Ireland 18 months ago due to the quality of Irish keepers (saying playing for Northern Ireland was the best for his career).
Dennis Cirkin of Sunderland is another case, born in Ireland, moved to England at 3. Both parents are Latvian. No real connection to here, bar his birth, but is an Irish citizen. Decent chance he could end up with us. He's currently an England u20. Really doubt he's be good enough to play for England at senior level. Could play for Latvia, but they really are no hopers, so we might be the middle ground that would meet his talent level. That's the unromantic angle. Maybe he doesn't feel Irish and won't ever play for us. Maybe the fact he was born here, has instilled something romantic within him, a deep bond to the place.
As for Ogbene, I know he's said to have professed to want to play for Nigeria, his country of birth as a younger man, but I have no doubt that if the Chio of today could talk to his younger self, he'd push him straight to Ireland. The experiences he's had, the love that the stadium and the country has for him, and the connection that exists at this point - it's the stuff of dreams...
Good point re Ogbene, ES. His experiences should be demonstrative to anyone from a similar background. And the way he speaks and carries himself, if you were Kenny you'd be asking him to pick up the phone to any lad from a similar background over whom there were any questions. Omobamidele, Bazunu and Idah have a Nigerian parent each and seem to love their experience too. A little different given that they were born here and have an Irish parent.
On Jinadu, didn't he play underage for England too before plumping for Nigeria at 17s? Not sure how much of his life he spent in Ireland if he managed to qualify for England so young?
No stress. Jinadu did the thing that Okoflex did, played u15s and u16s without being eligible to represent them at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Found the timeline:
Born 2002 in Nigeria
Moved to Ireland 2002/2003
Moved from Ireland to England in 2014
Represented England u15 in 2016
Represented England u16 in 2018
Represented Nigeria u17 in 2019
England give out caps to a couple of hundred kids at u15 level. The basic idea is they take the kids down to St. George's park when it's not being used, where the facilities are absolutely world class. They give them a tracksuit and a jersey and make them feel part of something, tell them how special they are, that if they work hard, they can be training with the senior side in St George's Park one day. They arrange a two friendlies against whoever and they cap them. They believe it deters most of the dual-eligible Irish, Welsh or Scottish players from defecting for a few years at least. I can't remember the number now but I saw analysis someone did in I guess 2019 and it showed for that age group they had either capped more than 200, 300 or 400 players in series of friendlies and squads, whatever number it was, it was hard to believe. Basically any player with an inch of talent gets a cap and then they feel like an English underage player. Whereas in the past, you'd have players ignored and then they might be capped by Ireland or Wales or whatever. Might have been around the time Graham Kavanagh was talking about his son Calum rejecting a call up to England's U15s and Stephen Ireland's kid playing for England u15.
That sounds familiar, was it youthhawk who wrote that article?
I think if he says no in June the only way he will return is if he starts not banging in the goals and wants exposureQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
If he says no in June and continue scoring I would say he is gone
fingers crossed he just rocks up in June
Having to have your fingers crossed about Players turning up to Play for your Country just doesn’t seem right ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
June will tell all and if he plays and plays well, then all of this will be forgotten about. If he opts for Nigeria then best of luck to him.
The situation is fluid and he should get the benefit of the doubt for cap-tying himself at 18. Things can change quickly. It wasn't that long ago that Ogbene was saying he wanted to play for Nigeria, now he's a core part of the team and everyone loves him!
https://www.the42.ie/chiedozie-ogben...34042-May2018/
“We’ll see what happens if any opportunity comes, but I’m just being up front now in saying that playing for Nigeria is what I’d prefer. I love Ireland and my nationality is Irish, but playing for Nigeria is my dream.”
100% is ridiculousQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
But at least we will know in 2 months
Unless he has an “ injury “ or an injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Sadly we have been down this road before. Let’s see.
The Ogbene story is a real finger in the eye for the people that are very black and white on the subject of nationality and identity. It's grey. It can change. I love Ogbene too. His comments were disappointing at the time but they're not an issue now- just interesting to discuss in this context.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Yep... if that happens and tbf we don't know if he would fake it completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
But I would be very keen for his "injury" or his injury to be looked at by our medical team. ( which I believe we are intitled to do under fifa rules)
What is interesting here is our fanbase reaction seems to differ when its England. Randolph courted the States fairly openly around 2014 time, Maguire in Holland was open to both, Noss in Germany is at it these days too. We're ok with their grey areas so long as its not shielding a preference for our former colonisers. Then we get real ****y.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Alan Reynolds (assistant at both Derry and the Ireland u21s) had a bit to say about Obafemi on the LoI Central podcast. Nothing too juicy but said Crawford and Kenny have been speaking to him and are happy enough with the plan and continue to monitor him. Reynolds spoke highly of his personality and said he's a good lad to have around the place. If you listen looking for negativity you might saw Reynolds is pretty non committal and dances around a bit but that's not too shocking as I don't think he's very involved in the call ups.
Is he not running out of time for that? He's 22 in July - does he have time to process the change of nationality paperwork and get a call-up and a game for England's 21s? Their next games are in June. I'm not sure what the cut-off is in terms of eligibility dates, though they had some players who turned 22 in Jan in their last squads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
But I could see an agent telling him how great he is and how he could definitely be a senior England international in the next three years and would he not hold off on Ireland until then. I'm sure it'd be worth more money if it came to pass, which is usually all agents think about.
The real fear here is he's genuinely injured come June...and so the random foot.ie speculation continues unabated for another three months :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Probably not the right thread and I don't want to add fuel to the fire but did anyone see the news re Jack Grealish during the week? 7 figure deal with Gucci he signed. Himself and his advisors are laughing all the way to the bank on that call.
I have no memory of Ogbene saying that he wanted to play for Nigeria. Goes to show how fickle these things can be. I'm sure at the time there were plenty of fellas online saying that he should never play for Ireland if thats how he felt etc
That's not how Under 21 eligibility works. He was born after 1/1/2000 so he's Under 21 eligible for the whole of this campaign, including the finals tournament - which doesn't take place until summer 2023 and which England are highly likely to qualify for.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
So plenty of time for him to make that switch if he wanted to.
Fair enough - that's a lot longer than I thought
Was about four years ago and a few months after he joined Brentford and couldn't get a game for them. Doubt anyone cared at the time and thought he'd have been back in the LOI in the following summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
He said it would be an honour to play for either given the chance but that his first love would be Nigeria as he carried his dreams of playing for them when he left in 2005.
https://www.the42.ie/chiedozie-ogben...34042-May2018/
Incidentally there's an Under 23 Africa Cup of Nations next year as well. Although Obafemi would be underage and therefore eligible to represent England in the Euro Under 21 finals he would actually be overage and therefore ineligible to represent Nigeria in that Under 23 competition the same year.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Has put a good shift in so far closing down defenders and won the penalty for Swansea's second. Though was probably more sloppy from the Reading defender rather than Obafemi being clever in winning it. Himself and Piroe are developing a good partnership.
Has played 446mins since the international break, which includes a 180mins this long weekend alone. Would be higher than 446mjns as it doesn't include added time and today's game went into the 97th minute. Should have no excuses for not showing up in June.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Finished 4-4 and will be kicking himself he didn't score a second when they were 4-3 up.
Would it be if he hadnt taken the International break off though???? :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I think it'll be absolutely criminal if Obafemi is not called up for the squad in June. We've four games in the space of 12 days so I'd be calling up a squad of 30 players who should be the basis of the Euro qualifiers starting next year. Perfect time to integrate players as part of a big group
Obafemi will be 24 in June 2024, when we hope we'll be at the Euros in Germany, close to his peak as a striker. Get him in in June, and see how he does. All the talk of Parrot (who I think will also turn out to be a great player for Ireland btw), but the reality is, Obafemi is currently playing at a higher level.. and is scoring more.
Obafemi has 10 goals and 1 assist in 28 Championship games
Callum Robinson has 7 goals and 8 assists in 40 games..
There's a very strong case to be made for saying Obafemi is currently our best performing striker.. no way should we be bringing in League 1 strikers ahead of him.
It's not about him been called up though its about him accepting the callup. He didn't accept the call up a few weeks ago due to hamstring concerns so hopefully he will now. He certainly looks like he will give us a good attacking option given how limited we are at present in attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
This is it exactly, he will be called up if he makes himself available. If he doesnt it'll cause a sh1t stormQuote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
You been keeping up at all ? He's just turned down a call up using an increasingly flaky looking hamstring story. Im 100% if he isn't called up, it'll have been because he didn't want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
Im also cautiously optimistic he'll join in.
Another really nice goal. I’m optimistic he will be playing with Ireland again in the summer
9 goals in 15 games for Obafemi, 6 in 9 for Parrott, 2 in consecutive games for Odubeko - things are starting to look promising again in the young strikers' department
Scores his 11th of the season.
Where does he play in the front three for us? Whose spot does he take? From the bits of Swansea I’ve seen recently, he’s definitely playing centrally, almost as a 9, with Piroe in the more 10 position. Physically and stylistically, he doesn’t seem to fit the preferred Kenny mould for a central striker and I could see him being pushed to the left or right of our front three… what do others think?