Advice on the Laws of the Game

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Originally Posted by sligo23

What are your toughts on the two CL semi-finals Ref??

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Roberto Rosetti who refereed the Man Utd v Arsenal game had a fine game - except for tthe Darren Fletcher incident. Massive mistake, perfect challenge - if a coach ever wants to see a perfect challenge to show his players that was it.

Tom Henning who was in charge of the Chelsea v Barcelona had a couple of big calls;

The sending off, the referees assistant had a better view and he can be seen asking the assistant off? as he makes his way to the player.

Pique's handball - in my view the ball hit his chest and then his hand, not deliberate - no penalty

Eto's handball - raised his arms, ball hit his side and his raised arm - not deliberate - no penalty

Ballacks handball - ball to hand - not deliberate - no penalty

In saying that when I saw the two Chelsea shouts at first, I thought they were penalties.

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Originally Posted by renovater

if a match is fixed for 7pm a team is late due to traffic.
arrives 6.45 on the pitch 7pm is the team entitled to warm up in the interest of the welfare of the players?

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This is down to league rules, common sense would say allow players have a warm up, but most leagues don't actually provide for this, therefore the referee is quite entitled to walk away at the kick-off time if both teams aren't ready.

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Originally Posted by murphs jewels

Lads if a player has picked up 2 yellow cards in previous games and ends up getting sent off for two yellow cards in the next game, is this now counted as 4 yellow cards for the season and does he then go back to scratch. And therefore if he is suspended for the sending off should he serve a further game for 4 yellow cards, or does he only get credited for 1 yellow as a result of the dismissal :confused: :confused:.These circumstances would refer to the Mayo League rules, in case you were wondering.

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As Girlinblack said, its league rules, but this interpretation is fairly common around were I referee.

I was asked once for a straight red instead of a second yellow as the player would serve a one match ban for the straight red, but two for 5 yellows and one for the red card (which he knew he was getting)

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Originally Posted by The Ref

Roberto Rosetti who refereed the Man Utd v Arsenal game had a fine game - except for tthe Darren Fletcher incident. Massive mistake, perfect challenge - if a coach ever wants to see a perfect challenge to show his players that was it.

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i bet you if your were in his shoes at that moment of time to make the call you will give penalty 9/10 times so call it a massive mistake is a bit over the top, a misjudgement yes but not a massive mistake

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Originally Posted by The Ref

Roberto Rosetti who refereed the Man Utd v Arsenal game had a fine game - except for tthe Darren Fletcher incident. Massive mistake, perfect challenge - if a coach ever wants to see a perfect challenge to show his players that was it.

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Originally Posted by Jock MIB

i bet you if your were in his shoes at that moment of time to make the call you will give penalty 9/10 times so call it a massive mistake is a bit over the top, a misjudgement yes but not a massive mistake

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My initial reaction to the Darren Fletcher incident was excellent tackle, he clearly got the ball as it can be seen moving in a different path.

Watch here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGPP...eature=related

Still think it was a massive mistake.

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Originally Posted by The Ref

My initial reaction to the Darren Fletcher incident was excellent tackle, he clearly got the ball as it can be seen moving in a different path.

Watch here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGPP...eature=related

Still think it was a massive mistake.

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I said his shoes, look at his position yours as a viewer on tv is different, his was virtually directly behind. And this clearly got he ball was the smallest of touches it just touch his toe, he put in a stupid challenge that didn't need to be done. I will stick by my statement you would have given 9/10 if you were in his shoes

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Originally Posted by Jock MIB

I said his shoes, look at his position yours as a viewer on tv is different, his was virtually directly behind. And this clearly got he ball was the smallest of touches it just touch his toe, he put in a stupid challenge that didn't need to be done. I will stick by my statement you would have given 9/10 if you were in his shoes

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Yes the referee was virtually straight behind, here is a great view of what happened and the referees position. He could clearly see that the ball moved to the right and the most probable way was Fletcher's tackle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Tra...eature=related

2m17s in.

And no, I would not have given a penalty.

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Originally Posted by The Ref

Yes the referee was virtually straight behind, here is a great view of what happened and the referees position. He could clearly see that the ball moved to the right and the most probable way was Fletcher's tackle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Tra...eature=related

2m17s in.

And no, I would not have given a penalty.

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Jesus if you could have seen darren get the slightest toe touch from directly behind you must have x ray vision and must never get a call wrong when your officiating... you should go for uefa standard they need perfect refs like yerself

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Originally Posted by Jock MIB

Jesus if you could have seen darren get the slightest toe touch from directly behind you must have x ray vision and must never get a call wrong when your officiating... you should go for uefa standard they need perfect refs like yerself

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i have to agree, hindsight is a great thing.but as a ref you have a split second to make up your mind.

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Originally Posted by The Ref

Yes the referee was virtually straight behind, here is a great view of what happened and the referees position. He could clearly see that the ball moved to the right and the most probable way was Fletcher's tackle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Tra...eature=related

2m17s in.

And no, I would not have given a penalty.

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and you would have been wrong,.yes he got a touch on the ball, but he then proceeded to take the player down and stop a goal scoring opportunity.take off your red glasses and look at it as a referee........

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Originally Posted by gunner1

and you would have been wrong,.yes he got a touch on the ball, but he then proceeded to take the player down and stop a goal scoring opportunity.take off your red glasses and look at it as a referee........

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A penalty is a direct free kick for an offence that occured in the defenders own box.

For a direct free kick to be awarded he must commit one of the ten listed offences. The one in this case:

tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball

In this instance, Darren Fletcher touched the ball before touching the opponent, therefore there is no offence. Jock MIB did not disagree (I think)with me on that point, he was arguing that referee could not have seen the touch.

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Originally Posted by Jock MIB

Jesus if you could have seen darren get the slightest toe touch from directly behind you must have x ray vision and must never get a call wrong when your officiating... you should go for uefa standard they need perfect refs like yerself

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Jock MIB, I get plenty of decissions wrong, I think that the ball moved enough for the referee, or at least his Assistant, to see it.

No point in having an argument over a public fourm, PM if you want to continue this debate.

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Originally Posted by The Ref

A penalty is a direct free kick for an offence that occured in the defenders own box.

For a direct free kick to be awarded he must commit one of the ten listed offences. The one in this case:

tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball

In this instance, Darren Fletcher touched the ball before touching the opponent, therefore there is no offence. Jock MIB did not disagree (I think)with me on that point, he was arguing that referee could not have seen the touch.

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My point is the referee couldn't see him touching it but what he saw was a player putting in a stupid meaningless tackle from slightly behind that if you had the same situation you would call 9 times out of ten a penalty. So i'm saying in hindsight it would be a slight misjudgement but not the blown up massive mistake that you made it out to be

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Originally Posted by gunner1

i have to agree, hindsight is a great thing.but as a ref you have a split second to make up your mind.

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I agree hindsight is a great thing and he had a split second to make up his mind, an honest decision but incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Jock MIB

My point is the referee couldn't see him touching it but what he saw was a player putting in a stupid meaningless tackle from slightly behind that if you had the same situation you would call 9 times out of ten a penalty. So i'm saying in hindsight it would be a slight misjudgement but not the blown up massive mistake that you made it out to be

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Would you have given a penalty if you had the TV view? I suspect not.

I believe it was a massive mistake from Darren Fletchers and Manchester United's perspective, but see above, I do believe it was an honest mistake.

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Originally Posted by The Ref

I agree hindsight is a great thing and he had a split second to make up his mind, an honest decision but incorrect.



Would you have given a penalty if you had the TV view? I suspect not.

I believe it was a massive mistake from Darren Fletchers and Manchester United's perspective, but see above, I do believe it was an honest mistake.

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I believe that the referee called it spot on as the circumstances showed it self that night, i believe darren was unlucky but was stupid to make such a pointless tackle... i dont and will never have use of tv for decisions as a ref so that is a pointless question.

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Originally Posted by Jock MIB

I believe that the referee called it spot on as the circumstances showed it self that night, i believe darren was unlucky but was stupid to make such a pointless tackle... i dont and will never have use of tv for decisions as a ref so that is a pointless question.

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What I was really trying to get at, having seen everything television replays etc, do you think it was a penalty?

As for Darren Fletcher, a player who has made a career in the professional game is a winner, their instinct is to make that tack regardless whether it 3:0, 1:1 or 1:5. They don't think of it as being stupid or pointless, its just their instinct to win.

He got a touch of the ball alright but its after it he connected with cesc and who is to say he wouldnt of scored if fletcher didnt bring him down after the touch...its a pen then isnt it?

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Originally Posted by francesco_1

He got a touch of the ball alright but its after it he connected with cesc and who is to say he wouldnt of scored if fletcher didnt bring him down after the touch...its a pen then isnt it?

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I believe that there was no foul before he touched the ball, the touch was first then his momentum took him down.

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Originally Posted by The Ref

I believe that there was no foul before he touched the ball, the touch was first then his momentum took him down.

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Aw Ref!!! Usual shout from the sideline! Page 33 "A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play." and after Fletch (I follow Man Utd so was disappointed with ref) knocked the ball away with his heel, he then, in a seperate action, commits a foul by using his other leg to catch the back of his opponents boots and hold him up and the player goes down(as you would expect). Guidelines state "Disciplinary sanctions • A caution for unsporting behaviour must be issued when a player holds an opponent to prevent him gaining possession of the ball or taking up an advantageous position", not sending off! It's good to talk as it gives arm chair refs an understanding of what split second decisions refs have to make!

I was just hoping for a couple of views from you refs over the a handball penalty.

Attacker is crossing the ball(with great force), the defender is half a yard away, the ball hits the defender on the chest/bicep.

No goal scoring chance was there as there was no body in the box. and the ball would most likely have went out for a throw in.