Mons?

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Not absolving Mons from blame by any means - but painting them as the ONLY culprit is wrong IMO.

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In fairness I don't think anyone watching last night could've thought they were solely to blame.

But what annoyed me was Gavin saying we have good things happening in the league "like ROvers moving to Tallaght". Firstly that was 4 years ago, and more importantly, the ground wasn't paid for by Irish football. This isn't a pop at Rovers, and their move has worked out brilliantly for them. But Irish football can't take most of the credit for that stadium, and for Gavin to suggest so in defence of his organisation is a bit much

Top post by sullanefc above BTW

Macy, I admire them for acting in a quick and painless fashion, rather than dragging on and causing mayhem for local business. I know that many clubs can see fit to get debts wiped out, start again and go on about a glorious history, Then the claim is - that's how business works etc. Sure, but collapsed companies try to distance themselves from their shoddy past. I don't see (as a point) why clubs shouldn't be run in a business manner, but if they do, then a Mons situation could come about. We can't have it all ways.

Roddy's piece about players willing to play on for nothing etc (plus his little dig about not being allowed to sign players) didn't seem to add up, then again, Roddy doesn't usually respect sense or truth too often. Most of what he went on with was barely disguised peevishness, though his point about council-club links was spot on.

It'd be better to save the admiration for the clubs that have budgeted correctly for the season and will see out their fixtures.

Very few clubs have gone the examinership route compared to those that have or are dealing with debts (pretty much any club that owns a ground can't realistically choose to go that route anyway or if they do it won't be the easy option).

Whatever about the inability to get sponsors, Mons can't be blamed for expecting more than 150 people to turn up for Premier Division matches. That is the root of the problem for Mons. Waiting 10 years to get to the top flight and then the realisation that no one in the town or county really gives a **** except the same small dedicated band of followers and match sponsors.

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Originally Posted by monsexile

Whatever about the inability to get sponsors, Mons can't be blamed for expecting more than 150 people to turn up for Premier Division matches. That is the root of the problem for Mons. Waiting 10 years to get to the top flight and then the realisation that no one in the town or county really gives a **** except the same small dedicated band of followers and match sponsors.

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Are attendances significantly down on the last time ye were in the premier?

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Originally Posted by monsexile

Whatever about the inability to get sponsors, Mons can't be blamed for expecting more than 150 people to turn up for Premier Division matches. That is the root of the problem for Mons. Waiting 10 years to get to the top flight and then the realisation that no one in the town or county really gives a **** except the same small dedicated band of followers and match sponsors.

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Don't swallow this. It is simply inexcusable for a LOI club to budget for increased attendances.

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Originally Posted by Macy

It'd be better to save the admiration for the clubs that have budgeted correctly for the season and will see out their fixtures.

Very few clubs have gone the examinership route compared to those that have or are dealing with debts (pretty much any club that owns a ground can't realistically choose to go that route anyway or if they do it won't be the easy option).

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Macy, I admire clubs who stick it out and get through tough patches, however I do admire the bluntness of the Monaghan situation. It just points, what you posted, to the situation that our system is defunct. I just don't know what model would work as the barstoolers will slag off the LOI is it went the North American route and whinge if it went the continental European council-club route.

Just watched the MNS stuff.. you can find it here: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish...-its-that-bad/

Roddy does a lot of the typical stuff of a manager from the brief pro era in the league in demanding that resources and facilities be magicked out of the air somehow, which is annoying, and was also entertainingly wrong about a bunch of stuff. He had a point about making the league into a good night out though.

Gavin didn't annoy me as much as I thought he would- at the end of the day he has to try to present things in a positive light or he'd be accused of running down the league, deterring sponsors etc. Would liked to have seen him pushed far harder by Con though, which never happens in these situations. Presenting Derry as an example of success was astonishing- their previous collapse was the most extreme example of everything that's wrong with the league! Plus I am aware that persons involved with Monaghan United felt that some of what he said was untrue.

McGuinness I have no time for whatsoever. Liked the idea that just because a player isn't paid currently that he therefore isn't good enough for the premier. One of the great recurring fallacies of the LOI has been that paying players more makes them better, when all the experience we have indicates otherwise- unless of course you go the whole hog and turn PRO, and even then it's far from a given.

From the Mirror today...

Limerick boss Pat Scully has broken his silence on Monaghan United's withdraw from the Premier Division, stating the Gortakeegan club should never have been there.

"It makes me laugh when people talk about the Monaghan situation and people feeling sorry for them. For me they never should have been in the Premier League."

The defunct outfit won their play-off place by finishing 1 point ahead of Limerick, then beating Galway United in the 2-leg promotion/relegation play-off.
Monaghan had been awarded a win by the FAI Disciplinary Committee in a drawn game v Finn Harps in September 2011 after it was found Harps had fielded a suspended player, which Scully disagreed with.

"Finn Harps got fined, Monaghan got the points which was one of the most bizarre decisions I've ever heard of, so I don't think Monaghan deserved to be in the league. To pull out after 12 weeks is poor form"

At least hes honest.

Classy guy. (Even if he's right about the decision that was taken)

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Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy

At least hes honest.

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it may be his only half decent trait. Arsehole in pretty much every other way.

The rule was fairly clear and he's still peddling the " most bizarre decisions I've ever heard of" BS

A walkover is the default result for all games where an ineligible player has been fielded everywhere in the world. It's only bizarre if you ignore the entire weight of history.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

A walkover is the default result for all games where an ineligible player has been fielded everywhere in the world. It's only bizarre if you ignore the entire weight of history.

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I agree a walkover is the right outcome in these case of an illegal player being played but the Finn harps one was bizarre alright. A player gets an A championship suspension. A championship ceases and without any notice to Finn Harps the FAI say Harps should have known to carry over the suspension because the A championship is gone. The player did not even feature on the weeks suspension list if memory serves me righ and this is why harps made the error.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

A walkover is the default result for all games where an ineligible player has been fielded everywhere in the world. It's only bizarre if you ignore the entire weight of history.

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Not here in 2006. Rovers were deducted 3 points for fielding an ineligible player v Dundalk and the 0-0 result stood. Considering Scully was the Rovers manager maybe that's why he found this bizarre.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

I agree that the FAI are at fault for giving them a license when their budget was unrealistic, but the FAI can't run all 20 clubs for them either. Clubs are responsible for running themselves properly and no one else.

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Of course clubs are responsible for running themselves (even if that means "running themselves into the ground") BUT the FAI are responsible for running the League and protecting the league from the (possibly) reckless action(s) of any club.

Licencing should be about protecting the League (and whats left of its integrity). Clearly the FAI is failing in this aspect.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Licencing should be about protecting the League (and whats left of its integrity). Clearly the FAI is failing in this aspect.

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I agree with this. But I don't think the people running mons should be left off the hook by saying "if it wasn't for the FAI, we might still be around".

If the FAI did their jobs properly then mons wouldn't be in the league. But once that decision was made, then it was down to mons... and they failed.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

I agree with this. But I don't think the people running mons should be left off the hook by saying "if it wasn't for the FAI, we might still be around".

If the FAI did their jobs properly then mons wouldn't be in the league. But once that decision was made, then it was down to mons... and they failed.

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Agree fully, only people responsible for demise of Mons are Mons (club and fans/non fans) but as you said the FAI should not have given them a licence and fudged (Quelle suprise !) their own rules to do so. Similar happened the previous year with Galway (and look how well that worked out)

Clubs are 100% responsible for the way they run their own affairs but the league must control/curtail them with their (FAI) focus on protecting the League. Two seperate issues in my opinion.

A few thoughts from MNS after watching it on RTE player:

McGuinness came across as a total c***. He says that the players weren't putting a gun to anyone's head over unpaid wages- not 60 seconds earlier Roddy was talking about them refusing to play against Sligo (and think of the FAI fines that that would bring Monaghan). I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with him, his complete focus seemed to be on players being paid as much as possible (in a general sense, not talking about former MUFC players) instead of there being a stable structure to generate those wages.

Fran Gavin's account was at odds with everything I've heard out of Monaghan. I'm curious about what the FAI considers an insurmountable problem? The Dundalk thread mentions ticket income falling by nearly 50% from last year, if that is a minor issue in the FAI's eyes then f*ck knows. How can any business anywhere be expected to submit budgets to include the massive, massive falls in year-on-year income that were seen at Monaghan and now Dundalk? The fastest way to cut costs is to leave the league and instantly be rid of the registration fees, referees fees, floodlight bills etc etc. At this rate he'll get his 12-team Premier Division by there only being 12 teams left in the whole country. If Salthill and Dundalk go, and maybe Bray too, then thats 16-17 clubs, and how in the name of God can a 4 or 5 team first division survive?

The main thing that surprised me though was how isolated the view of the panel was. Gavin mentioned three clubs as being success stories- all three have liquidated/reformed in recent times. Does he think Anglo Irish Bank is doing well too? I hear their debts have fallen significantly. The worst crime was leaving the league, rather than staying and collapsing completely. And McGuinness thought that we need a professional division with relegation and promotion of professional teams :confused:

I'd be interested to know when people like sullane and marinobohs think that Monaghan should have gone from the league? At the start of the season, after two of the most successful seasons ever on the pitch and with more potential for exposure and crowds than any time in the previous decade? Or at the very end, after having another Premier season featuring a joke XI getting whipped weekly, and leaving creditors totally high-and-dry? Or in August maybe, when the players would be owed even more wages and have even less chance to find new clubs?

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Originally Posted by MagicMon

A few thoughts from MNS after watching it on RTE player:

McGuinness came across as a total c***. He says that the players weren't putting a gun to anyone's head over unpaid wages- not 60 seconds earlier Roddy was talking about them refusing to play against Sligo (and think of the FAI fines that that would bring Monaghan). I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with him, his complete focus seemed to be on players being paid as much as possible (in a general sense, not talking about former MUFC players) instead of there being a stable structure to generate those wages.

Fran Gavin's account was at odds with everything I've heard out of Monaghan. I'm curious about what the FAI considers an insurmountable problem? The Dundalk thread mentions ticket income falling by nearly 50% from last year, if that is a minor issue in the FAI's eyes then f*ck knows. How can any business anywhere be expected to submit budgets to include the massive, massive falls in year-on-year income that were seen at Monaghan and now Dundalk? The fastest way to cut costs is to leave the league and instantly be rid of the registration fees, referees fees, floodlight bills etc etc. At this rate he'll get his 12-team Premier Division by there only being 12 teams left in the whole country. If Salthill and Dundalk go, and maybe Bray too, then thats 16-17 clubs, and how in the name of God can a 4 or 5 team first division survive?

The main thing that surprised me though was how isolated the view of the panel was. Gavin mentioned three clubs as being success stories- all three have liquidated/reformed in recent times. Does he think Anglo Irish Bank is doing well too? I hear their debts have fallen significantly. The worst crime was leaving the league, rather than staying and collapsing completely. And McGuinness thought that we need a professional division with relegation and promotion of professional teams :confused:

I'd be interested to know when people like sullane and marinobohs think that Monaghan should have gone from the league? At the start of the season, after two of the most successful seasons ever on the pitch and with more potential for exposure and crowds than any time in the previous decade? Or at the very end, after having another Premier season featuring a joke XI getting whipped weekly, and leaving creditors totally high-and-dry? Or in August maybe, when the players would be owed even more wages and have even less chance to find new clubs?

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Well yes if ye had cut back to having no paid players or something and ended the season even not getting another point it would have been better then pulling out mid season.

How are ye going to make the money to pay back the creditors ye have now by the way?