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Not so sure about that. Green was rubbish against Russia too. Having said that he's never been as bad as has been generally suggested.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Interesting thing about that is it's something Gibson did all the time. He was often accused of hiding or going missing, but in nearly every game he played (particularly in the 2012 campaign period) he was always dropping short and demanding the ball from defenders and keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Oh he was. But the bile and anger that was sent his way was unwarranted. It was Whelan having the horror show that he had that meant that Green as limited as he was was covering two positions in CM.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
But as you say rightly, he's never been as bad as has been made out.
Oh yeah he was the complete fall-guy, an easy target. Interesting how things have turned now - the more clued in fans would have Green over Whelan in a heartbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Foot.iers! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
NO BS, some of us were there before, I think you will remember Geysir and I pointed out for the short time he was on against Slovakia he did a good job. He was very poor against Russia, but after that game he greatly improved - he needed to even a great improvement wouldn't have meant he was still good - maybe tahts just because we are so used to seeing how bad whelan is in midfield.
Yes. It's not like there are an awful lot of examples considering his remarkable injury record around international breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Surely you've heard the calls to "get Hoolahan in the team and we'll start playing some football" etc. They're panaceas. And Andy Reid has never at any stage been better than the players Trap was picking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'd say we played better against Sweden because they are as scared of the ball as we are. Ditto England.Quote:
I don't necessarily think a "huge improvement" would come about either, but I do believe there'd be enough of an improvement if Whelan was replaced by a better player, even under Trap's system and approach. Sweden away was a very good example - but about the only example one can find. Midfield functioned well, so by and large the team functioned well.
I'm saying the players bought into the idea of passing it against 10 men of inferior quality, whereas until that point we were still playing the way we would against a superior side.Quote:
I think Hoolahan's first half showing against Georgia - and Ireland's overall - was tempered by not having an orthodox wide man on the right - either at full back or RHM.
Also, you say that Hoolahan was more effective in second half because his teammates bought into it more. That's pretty much my point though - teammates appreciate a guy who wants the ball and keeps it moving. It sets the tone and in the absence of such a player we play hoofball all the time.
Indeed. It's not like he's missed 8 months out of the last two seasons out through injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
BTW, I believe I was the first to point this out when he withdrew in summer 2011 and I spotted that he had done it for 3 years in a row, so I can understand your suspicion. We have since learned that he has a calcified mass on his thigh that has been causing these injuries and was apparently going to require surgery this summer.
It's not just the summer. He has missed a lot of friendly breaks, during which time other players have jumped ahead of him in the queue. If he was anybody else, Trap would have lost patience and stopped calling him up.
Yes, he's an injury prone player and it has been pointed out before that even if he didn't refuse the post euros call-ups that he would have missed a lot of them as well through being injured.
Sweden and England are both scared of the ball, but with Whelan missing against Sweden we played well but with Whelan present we didn't. I'd have thought that lends some support to my point rather than refuting it.
And just adding some sarcasm to your first comment about Gibson doesn't really validate your argument that Gibson of 2008is likely to be the same as Gibson of 2013. I think it just makes you look like you won't give an inch regardless of what is put before you.
I think it's quite curmudgeonly not to acknowledge in any way whatsoever that Hoolahan actually improved the way the team played in the second half by setting the tone and tempo from midfield. I think it'd be fair to say that McGeady gave him better options than Keogh and Keane made some good runs for him so that accounts for some of the overall improvement but if you think Whelan would have been just as effective I'd have to disagree.
I'm convinced that Whelan is past his sell-by date for us and his place should be allocated to a player with more comfort on the ball. A Hoolahan or a Gibson won't drastically change the way we play - Trap is welded to his approach - but it would, in my opinion, improve how we execute Trap's approach.
Just to complete my response, I think around 2008 and 2009 Andy Reid was, or was very close to being, one of our best midfielders. At one brief stage, Trap even picked Liam Miller.
Christ...that sort of choice is like "death or exile"... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Hobson or Green?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I didn't actually realise the Cyprus game was so long ago, but my general impression of Gibson is that he doesn't impose himself for Ireland. But, like I said, he doesn't exactly go out of his way to appear in a green shirt.
No, of course Whelan wouldn't have been as effective as Hoolahan as Hoolahan is better at football, but I think it's stupidly simplistic to credit him alone with setting the tempo. McCarthy was just as impressive beside him and I thought Robbie helped link the play up a lot better too. There was an overall shift in mentality from the 11 men on the pitch and Hoolahan was only a cog in the machine.
And I'll have to respectfully disagree about Andy Reid. He is and was a limited player with a lovely left foot, more Matty Taylor than David Beckham.
Matty Taylor would've been a 100 cap player for us.
05/08Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
We dodged a bullet there then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Gibson is a very good premiership player. Undoubtedly, he would add to us greatly and I would love him back in the fold. I hope he lives on his promise with Ireland and in time becomes a very good international.
However, his behaviour has been shocking and I can't blame Trap on this one. Yes, he should have seen gametime at the Euros, but so should about 6-7 other lads. Gibson's behaviour is a disgrace and if I was a new manager replacing Trap, I'd meet him face-to-face and tell him that while I would want him part of the team, if he behaved like that in the future, I wouldn't cap him. I get the impression Gibbo is quite a precious individual.
Was it the Euros, or was it the post Euros friendly when James McCarthy got the nod to start next to Whelan that proved the tipping point though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
I could be wrong there.
In 2011/12 I would have had Keith Fahey ahead of Gibson as the reserve midfielder. Andrews and Whelan were the established central midfielders and the onus was on other players to displace them. When Fahey played for us in tense away games (Yerevan, Zlina) he generally did well playing solidly, scoring some important goals and setting up chances. Sadly he had injuries and personal problems and his career has dimmed (to the point where he now has no club), but prior to Euro 2012 (Fahey got injured at the last minute) I would say Gibson was behind him as well as the incumbents.
Gibson was injured for the Serbia game, or perhaps was already starting his exile.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke