I'd give him the women in shorts one, if it came from anybody else but but a sweaty, plump, elderly, panting man who's smaller than Danny DeVito.
Printable View
I'd give him the women in shorts one, if it came from anybody else but but a sweaty, plump, elderly, panting man who's smaller than Danny DeVito.
Never mind 'Fatter', you all missed the chance to correct various eejits on the previous link and now even "Ingerland's finest" has waded in...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...and?CMP=twt_gu
Does article 8.2 definitely cover the situation of a new state/nationality or states/nationalities being formed from the splitting up of a former state? Did Montenegrins (without heritage or territorial ties to Serbia) automatically lose any right to post-split Serbian citizenship (assuming the pre-split citizenship was not continuous) when Serbia & Montenegro was divided into two?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
What situation exactly does "without his consent or against his will due to a decision by a government authority" cover and does the phrase create strict criteria? Did Montenegrins lose their former citizenship without their consent or against their will, for example?
I suppose the English FA, can if they want, opt out of the UK agreement in order to pick a few free willing resident players in their middle to late 20's, forgotten by the country of their birth.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
ATM, they assume any player would willingly wait 5 years, just dying to don the 3 lions shirt, that no player in their right mind would give a fiddler's fart for a backwoods place like Albania and it's completely out of the equation that the kid would ever consider a move (inside the 5 years) to a club in another country, because of his pure love for England.
Didn't this (eliminating residency from the criteria) part of the UK agreement come about because the other 3 FA's were concerned about the FA scooping up their best players?
Does the dog wag the tail in this UK agreement thing, or does the tail (sfa wfa ifa) wag the dog (FA) in the form of a democratic vote?
The English FA could get fed up with puny, servile, annoying whiny accented mini brits like the IFA, telling them what's what.
I don't know the situation with the break-up of Serbia and Montenegro, whether people from the latter were offered citizenship of Serbia. I can't see that article being complete enough to cover all instances though.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Can we be certain its purpose is to cover such a situation at all? Wasn't the split democratic, consensual and willing (by and large)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Yeah would people of the later want citizenship to Serbia?
I don't think its intention is to cover that at all, and I suspect the lack of a formal rule for such cases is down to FIFA not wanting to encourage breakaway associations.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
There's a Serb minority in Montenegro like everywhere else in the former Yugoslavia. There are a few Kosovan Serbs in the current Serbia set-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
But you do still maintain that it covers such a break-up situation though (even if unintentionally)? Unless I've misunderstood, isn't that what you were arguing in post #5758? I'm not so sure if it does at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was saying that's the only situation FIFA statutes cover formally and breakaway associations is a separate case that's not covered in the statutes but nevertheless occurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
That's my view too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I think young Jack has his eye on this job vacancyQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
http://news.sky.com/story/1151663/to...n-from-the-edl
I think FIFA are actually more supportive and proactive in this area, ready to do a deal (if the price is right).Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The rule was always there, that a parent association had to approve of a split/separation, like with Catalonia or Basque country, if they wanted to go solo. Naturally there's no question of the parent association's permission mattering, if a separated region has won independence and gained recognition.
The problem Kosovo has, is more to do with the UN status being used as the criteria for acceptance. As it currently stands, the UN does not deserve that status because of the power and the exercise of the veto.
It should be, that if a region has a majority of UN members in favour of recognition, then after 3 or 5 years period, it automatically becomes a member, regardless of Russia or China or US opposition. Kosovo independence is supported by the vast majority of European countries, not Russia or Serbia.
It's UEFA who are the thorn in Kosova's cause to be recognised. It was UEFA who pulled back FIFA after FIFA gave Kosovo permission to play intl friendlies. It's Platini in particular who has a bee in his bonnet about Kosovo.
That's a mere supposition, geysir, based on no existing evidence. On the other hand, we have the FIFA statutes which clearly forbid a player from representing two separate associations at competitive A level and we have the word of the reputable anti-slavery campaigner Herr Blatter.
The thread has evolved to a better place Charlie, keep pace with your own theory. :)
Watched Mclaughlin playing on the left of a front three for liverpool 21s on Monday. Serious footballer, scored, won peno, brought a couple of good saves from keeper and some nice crossing. Hopefully he comes into the fold. He looks ready for first team football. Tottenhams irish winger was there best player very light though very hard to see him playing premiership football.
McLaughlin is supposed to be terrific and a lot of Pool fans reckon he will get game time this year, though it might depend on whether Liverpool remain challenging for the Champions League places.
I've been very impressed with McEvoy. Hope you're wrong about him not making it though!!
Due to his physique? He could always bulk up, like his doppelgänger did.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
The London Indo has compiled a list of English sporting individuals who would not have been able to represent England under Wilshere's theory of eligibility. It would be interesting if we listed our own list as I think it would pretty long too!
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...gallery&ino=50
In fairness to Jack it';s a shame that English Cricket and Rugby have such grubby paws.
That list is very dubious. Many of those players have English blood but were just not born in England.
Where, let's be honest, the young lad at United has no English connection whatsoever.
I kind of agree with him on the residency thing. I'm not sure someone should qualify for a country because they have lived there for 5 years
Just on Januzaj, if it is indeed the case that he's holding out for recognition of Kosovo, perhaps that is indicative of an understanding on his part that opting for one of the nations for which he's currently eligible would rule him out of being able to play for Kosovo in the future? (Besides Serbia, of course, but playing for them is very unlikely to appeal to an ethnic Albanian anyway.)
I think the Monty Hall Problem is easier to understand than that! (see other thread)
An interesting piece about Brussels club FC Kosova Schaerbeek, for whom Januzaj's father and uncle once played: http://www.rferl.org/content/fc_koso.../24355272.html
Quote:
...
It might be just an amateur soccer club, playing six divisions below the national Belgian Premier League, but don't tell that to the fans of FC Kosova.
For them, it's a lot more than just a sports team. It's part of their identity, a second family. Fans point out that the club existed long before Kosovo itself gained broad international recognition as a country and opened an embassy in Brussels.
There are almost 200 fans watching the match -- a remarkable number if one considers that there are plenty of better soccer clubs in the city.
But there is more to FC Kosova than just the standard of football.
"Firstly, we are part of the Muslim community of Brussels," says Avni Bakalli, one of the club's fans. "And it represents everything that Albanians want from a football club: discipline, the will to win, brotherhood, and, in particular, mutual trust."
"We have suffered a lot in history but now we have a club among us where we meet with friends, grab a drink, talk about everything and nothing, but primarily about football," says another fan, whose son, nephew and cousin play for the club.
The president of FC Kosova, Abazi Xhevat, was a player when the club was created 20 years ago. He believes that there would be even more people watching if they had a proper stadium.
"The supporters are always here," he says. "We have always had supporters and they are always there. You saw it today and it is magnificent."
The team is currently confined to playing their home games at a fenced-in AstroTurf pitch in the gritty, multiethnic Brussels municipality of Schaerbeek, where a majority of the city's 40,000 ethnic Albanians live.
Previously, the team shared a rundown arena with two other neighboring clubs but they all had to move out due to construction work.
A Family Club
When Xhevat was still a player, the club consisted of a senior team full of immigrants from Kosovo at the very bottom of the football league system in Belgium. Today, it has already climbed up a division and is topping another table. What's more, FC Kosova now has 140 players and a team at each underage-level from ages 6 to 21.
The club's secretary, Afrim Kas, tells RFE/RL that the club is now becoming much more multiethnic with players from Turkey, Morocco, and several African countries, both in the senior squad and at youth level.
"In the beginning when the club was created it was a nice little family club that represented the Albanian community," he says. "But it has developed a little bit into a club for the whole of Brussels and in the surrounding region of Brabant."
Most of the senior team's starting 11, however, still hail from Kosovo, but on the bench orders are barked in French.
The coach of the team is Christophe Schoenjans, an ethnic Belgian who was the club's senior goalkeeper for five years before an injury forced him to hang up his gloves.
Even though the team still has a strong ethnic identity, Schoenjans sees no difficulty as an outsider coming in to give instructions.
"They are not Kosovars, they are players," he says. "For me they are players and it doesn't really matter if they are Kosovars, Spaniards, Belgians, or Swedes. It is the same thing."
A Vehicle For Integration
Yet, the pride of putting on the red and black shirt with the Albanian double-headed eagle emblazoned on their chests is obvious for most of the players.
Club captain Ledio Kertusha maintains that he is playing for his country and his people, but he points out that FC Kosova Schaerbeek is also an important vehicle for integration in Belgium.
"It is good for us because it will integrate us even more and do so in a better way," he says. "And it will show everyone that we have a place in this society"
The team still plays a distinctly Balkan style of soccer characterized by a fondness for silky skills such as backheels, step-overs, flicks, and nutmegs mixed with fiery temperaments, angry gestures toward the referee, and the occasional theatrical simulation near the opponent's penalty area.
Kas believes that the club's credo is to play entertaining football and for the players, both old and young, to have fun. "It's a spectacle," he says. "The kids who come here want to entertain themselves. That is the most important thing for the club: the entertainment. When they join the club, it's because they want to have fun."
...
I was just reading through the Wikipedia article of Southampton's Dani Osvaldo (born in Argentina, of course, but he plays internationally for Italy) and came across this snippet:
I recall we discussed the eligibility of some Argentina-born Italian internationals with Italy-born great-grandfathers before in this thread, but had we come to any conclusion as to under which eligibility regulation they qualified to play for Italy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The Wiki article on oriundi has the following to say on the matter, but it's not all that insightful, nor do I see how it could be correct in Dani Osvaldo's case (if he indeed qualifies through an Italy-born great-grandfather only):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
As far as I can see, it can only be due to his having the entitlement to permanent nationality not dependent on residence from the time of his birth, for which his parent or grandparent would have to have been citizens at the time of his birth, at the very least. Either that, or the fact he hadn't represented Argentina at U19 level meant strictly speaking he wasn't "acquiring a new nationality" at all.
That's more of a cultural thing in that quite a few Spanish/Italian-born players have played for Argentina presumably largely on residency grounds, and in the main, no-one seemed that bothered.
Seems as much the other way in recent years with the likes of Cambiasso and Camoranesi calling on Italian ancestry to play for their national team. I think Danny's more interested in the legal mechanism that makes Osvaldo eligible though, in light of the fact his ancestry goes further than the grandparentage FIFA's statutes stipulate for a change of nationality.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
He could have qualified because of residency. He arrived to Italy in 2006 when he turned 20
He only had to live in Italy for 2 years in order to be eligible. He played for the u21's but maybe those were not competitive games.
The 5 year residency requirement came in 2008.
He wasn't selected for the seniors until 2011, he would have fulfilled the 5 year residency requirement by then.
So, the Brazilian bloke that has just declared for Spain: his Spanish dual nationality was only confirmed in July this year.
Before that he had represented Brazil in a non-binding fixture.
Does that not rule him out for Spain on the old Article 18.1(a) grounds, i.e,., that at the time he represented country A (even in a friendly) he must also have had country B nationality (or its requirements)?
If he's just declared for Spain then he has to have satisfied the current wording of article 8, which is different to what you write,Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
senior friendlies don't count.
But if he had played competitive underage for Brazil, then he would have to have had the Spanish citizenship before that game.
The five-year residency requirement demands that the residency has been continuous. I'm not so sure Osvaldo would have satisfied that had the current rules been in place pre-2008. That's assuming that his Wiki stat-board is correct when it says he joined Atalanta from Huracán in 2006 and left Bologna for Espanyol in 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Nevertheless, he would have been eligible to play for Italy after two years of residency under the pre-2008 rules, as you point out. Do you think he would otherwise have been ineligible, despite his Italian great-grandfather?
As far as I can make out, friendlies are overlooked. The rules don't apply to friendly fixtures and only competitive fixtures are binding in terms of effecting switches and tying players to associations. The reason Arteta wasn't eligible to play for England was because he had played in competitive fixtures for Spain at under-age level before becoming entitled to British citizenship. If I recall correctly, two or three Everton players with Irish-sounding surnames actually played for us in a friendly at under-age level a few years ago despite not being eligible to play for us at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think he would have been ineligible with just the Italian great-grandfather. There is no eligibility through a great grandfatherQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
His 2 year residency was completed on jan 2008, from that point on he would have been eligible to play underage competitive games for Italy and anything else he was selected for.
What Charlie says is valid, but only if he was automatically an Italian citizen when he was born, if he had to apply for Italian nationality - then he would have needed the 2 year residency to satisfy FIFA.
Afaiu this Oriundo thing, the descendent has to apply for citizenship, until they apply they are not Italian nationals.
Camoranesi had 2 or 3 years residency before he played for Italy.
Aye, good point tbf. knew this went 'both ways', but struggling to think of relevant examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
There's a list of players here born outside of Italy but with Italian ancestry who've represented the Italian national team: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriundo...otball_oriundiQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Amauri, Cristian Ladesma, Thiago Motta, Simone Perrotta and Giuseppe Rossi are a few of the more recent examples, as well as Camoranesi.
Was watching liverpool v boro under 18s highlights. O Hanlon looked class as always. Lad called o neill hit bar for boro. Turns out there are 2 of them conor and stephen both 96s so eligible for 19s this year and next. Born in Bris Vagas must be ELIGIBLE for us.
"This impending appointment of Martin O'Neill as senior team manager of the Beggars is nothing but another devious and divisive ploy by the FAI to win over the hearts of young and impressionable northern Catholic lads and to strike a further blow to the very existence of the IFA. Is O'Neill even eligible?!"
- Someone on OWC earlier, probably...
A question mark followed by an exclamation mark?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
That could be Paul.
I believe they call it an interrobang.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir