I wonder how many irish people are aware of this
You certainly know your sh!t:cool:
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I wonder how many irish people are aware of this
You certainly know your sh!t:cool:
After a undistinguished career at a secular English comprehensive school I spent 10 years at the university of life before studying Irish Studies at a 'New University' (ie sh!te former polytechnic). However even in an Irish context what I studied is small fry (basic Act of Union to Modern day) so pre 1801 is a grey area to me. I do however read a lot of books on Irish history, just to keep my hand in, so to speak.
Too many people know **** all about their own country. The trouble is with Ireland is that there is so much to know. In the English language, there are probably half of a dozen decent books on Swedish history (current pop: 8.9m) that anybody would need to read. On Ireland, this list runs into hundreds. Thanx to Gary Espana, I learned something today about the painting by Pieter Van der Meulen of the Pope blessing KB. In 1934, John Nixon MP (Stormont) - I think he was the RIC inspector who was involved in a murder of a family on the Falls in 1920/1?? - done a Rambo and wrecked the painting. It was taken away to be 'restored' but disappeared. :rolleyes: It is currently worth £1/2M: See www.fantompowa.net/Flame/pope_cut_out_of_.htm
This sort of history will **** off many people. Hence the attempt at destroying the painting.
As agent Mulder and Scully would say: 'The truth is out there.' Well it is if you keep an open mind, and use Yahoo! or Google.:cool:
And to keep people who want to talk about Celtic happy, yeah it's an Irish club with a Scottish accent and too many people who don't know their history supporting them.;)
On a late turn yesterday, Senor? :)
From your previous posts, I had a feeling you'd studied this before. I did a Masters in Irish Studies myself at Liverpool University. I know more about Irish history than I do about that of Britain, despite my first degree containing large elements of British political history. Ahh, the lengths us 2G will go to... ;)
:D PP
(On another note, I'd promised myself that despite being a Celtic fan, I wasn't going to post on this thread. That's blown that then...)
Liverpool must have been brilliant. I went to North London as a 'mature student' (an oxymoron if ever there was one) and majored in Irish studies (I minored - surprise, surprise :rolleyes: - in Spanish). I was still working and starting a family, so I wanted something that was going to keep me interested. Done my MA there as well in Modern European studies which was equally interesting (my dissertation was on Black migration into Ireland).
Cultural studies is always geting slagged, but my degree contained large parts of history and English literature associated with those subjects, so I think its just snobbery. To be fair, NL (now London Metropolitan) has one of the biggest centres of books on Ireland in the country.
It's true.I think growing up away from what you'd call home makes you appreciate it all the more.Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Ahh, the lengths us 2G will go to... ;)
These days too many people here don't even care for their heritage.I think this explains the growing Sinn Fein vote in the south;people who want to remain irish and not european, fear that our culture willl gradually fade out unless something is done.
It's already started, and the most obvious is Man Ure shirts everywhere. I know this discussion is about Celtic (and after 43 pages we all have to agree to disagree) but the support for English clubs sends me loco.:mad: OK Man Ure are a top club, but what about the Dublin supporters clubs for Leicester City, Ipswich Town, Bradford City, etc.? These crap teams? I've met people who support sh!te English teams on Ireland trips and it's no wonder blokes on here bust a cojon on why they aren't down at their local EL side.Quote:
Originally posted by Beavis
It's true.I think growing up away from what you'd call home makes you appreciate it all the more.
These days too many people here don't even care for their heritage.I think this explains the growing Sinn Fein vote in the south;people who want to remain irish and not european, fear that our culture willl gradually fade out unless something is done.
BTW I notice from your profile that you are a Consultant Gynaecologist. I work in a similar job. I too have to look at ****s all day.:D :D
A lad started a thread a week or two back wondering was there any Sheffield United fans to start a fan club.I felt like asking what exactly had some dreary town in Middle England had to do with him.I didn't cos it was his first post and I didn't want to seem like an @rsehole.
I hear it everyday though,'I've supported Man U since I was a kid.'
I ask why,'oh I like the way they play'.Basically 'they're the best team I know so I can't lose':rolleyes: .
I confess to not being a major El fan(look out for Waterford cos the oul fella is a big fan) but I watch English football to see how our boys are getting on and my argument is that you want to watch the best you have to offer and ours goes abroad.
Celtic has an undeniable link with this country and I am a fan but I don't have the attitude that Celtic fans are any more irish than anyone else.Me and a friend from work(big Shamrock Rovers fan) were in the pub talking to a Celtic fan last weekend.My mate said he didn't support Celtic just Rovers and the other lad called him a 'hun'.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
PS Lopez,I thought in spelling consultant gynaecologist wrong would give away that this wasn't in fact my profession!:D
Hi Lopez/PPQuote:
Originally posted by lopez
Liverpool must have been brilliant. I went to North London as a 'mature student' (an oxymoron if ever there was one) and majored in Irish studies (I minored - surprise, surprise :rolleyes: - in Spanish). I was still working and starting a family, so I wanted something that was going to keep me interested. Done my MA there as well in Modern European studies which was equally interesting (my dissertation was on Black migration into Ireland).
Cultural studies is always geting slagged, but my degree contained large parts of history and English literature associated with those subjects, so I think its just snobbery. To be fair, NL (now London Metropolitan) has one of the biggest centres of books on Ireland in the country.
When I was wokring in Hemel for a few years, I did an evening course in Irish studies at North London, really enjoyed it but only managed the one term as the journey after work was a struggle to get there on time.
Since I moved back to Manchester, i've fancied continuing the course/starting again, but have struggled to find it on anywhere local, surprising as I just assumed that all the major universities would do it.
Admittedly have I haven't looked too hard in locating a course, could have a look at Liverpool I suppose, but it would need to be an evening/weekend type arrangement.
I don't suppose either of you, or anyone else out there has any ideas?
Cheers, Jnr
PS: Mod: I know this is strictly not a general footie question but Il hope you can forgive me
;)
I too didn't want to sound like a smart@rse either in case you didn't make a deliberate mistake in the spelling, but I would have put money on you not being a gynaecologist. After a day of that sort of thing and I don't think you'd have the stomach for dinner let alone talking footie/politics/culture.:DQuote:
Originally posted by Beavis
PS Lopez,I thought in spelling consultant gynaecologist wrong would give away that this wasn't in fact my profession!:D
The argument about the quality of Irish football is a tricky one. I saw Longford against some side a few weeks back (not the cup final mind) in a pub with an RTE feed and I thought the standard was good - OK not la liga, but Div 2 at the very least.
But I also remember a visit to Bishopstown in 95 to watch Cork and it depressed me. A new out of town stadium that was already looking knackered with a crowd of 200 or so watching a dire game. Meanwhile, and I've said this story before so please be free to yawn, a bloke I knew was up in Tipp playing in a Munster Cup game for (I think it was Tramore Athletic??) in front of over a thousand. He was a Cork City fan who used to go to the games at Turner's Cross and said that he has no car and even if he had he wanted to have a drink, so he was refusing to go and watch them at Bishopstown.
I think things are improving.
I'm from Hemel myself, so I know the journey to Holloway Road. I used to work late at Golders Green so I planned work to follow my daytime lectures. Where did you work/live while in this wonderful cultural oasis? I'd say Manchester must be pretty boring after Hemel?:DQuote:
Originally posted by Junior
Hi Lopez/PP
When I was wokring in Hemel for a few years, I did an evening course in Irish studies at North London, really enjoyed it but only managed the one term as the journey after work was a struggle to get there on time.
Best of luck with finding a course, but apart from Luton, Liverpool and St Marys in W London, I don't know of anywhere else.
Worked in Maylands Ave, Siemens building down the bottom end (changed its name now). Still get down there a couple of times a month for meetings etc...Quote:
Originally posted by lopez
I'm from Hemel myself, so I know the journey to Holloway Road. I used to work late at Golders Green so I planned work to follow my daytime lectures. Where did you work/live while in this wonderful cultural oasis? I'd say Manchester must be pretty boring after Hemel?:D
Best of luck with finding a course, but apart from Luton, Liverpool and St Marys in W London, I don't know of anywhere else.
Can't say I had too many sessions in Hemel, couple of lunchtime bevvies / christmas do at the BP offices near the hotel by our office was about as exciting as it got.
Lived in Harrow and Ealing during my time darn sarf..
Emailed Liverpool this afternoon while I was thinking about it, perhaps they do distance learning or similar - that however requires serious commitment, what with our forthcoming WC06 qualifiers.......ah, im sure you know the script!!!!!
Junior: I know the place. My old man used to work in Lucas down there but since been torn down.
Obviously joking about HH and culture, although the aforementioned Pope Adrian IV was born just outside (hence Breakspear Way onto the M1).
I don't drink there often either unless you count the front room. Still not as bad as neighbouring Chesham...have you seen Deliverance?...or Hatfield which I see they've made life there into a film called The Martins starring Kathy Burke and Lee Evans. It's Ballymun without the red lemonade.:D
I've just joined up and it seems as though I have missed all the furore over my team but seem to have stumbled into something else entirely. I went to St Mary's in Twickenham to do Irish Studies and last year I went to North London (now London Met) to try and learn a bit of Irish. I wasn't much good at it. I found that you were spot on aboyut the Irish books they have at north London. So much so that the local libraries in Haringey and Islington ended up throwing out a load of Irish books because NL was the best resourced library in this area.
The reason that there are so many studies/books written about the Irish is the spread of the diaspora is so wide and varied that we basically just make good reading!
JuniorQuote:
Originally posted by Junior
Hi Lopez/PP
When I was wokring in Hemel for a few years, I did an evening course in Irish studies at North London, really enjoyed it but only managed the one term as the journey after work was a struggle to get there on time...
I don't suppose either of you, or anyone else out there has any ideas?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
One of the places I also tried was the old Bath CHE, which I believe is now Bath Spa University College. IIRC, they did a correspondence/residential style course, which might suit your needs. Bath was the home to the British Association for Irish Studies, which has now moved to Royal Holloway College, part of the University of London. Their website is at http://www.english.ltsn.ac.uk/bais/ and will probably have all the answers you need. If not, they'll know exactly who does.
Hope that's of some use.
Despite being a Celtic fan, I tried to avoid joining this debate too, Rebel Bhoy. You get sucked in eventually... ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Rebel Bhoy
I've just joined up and it seems as though I have missed all the furore over my team but seem to have stumbled into something else entirely.
On the subject of Irish books and North London, I always used to frequent the Four Provinces bookshop in Archway. Wonderful place and knowledgeable staff too. Another reason why the aforementioned libraries were devoid of stock.
:D PP
PS Nice Terence MacSwiney quote btw... :)
Cheers PP. The one in Archway was Green Ink wasn't it? They were fantastic in there. Its been closed a while now. I think the guy who owned it sold up and moved back to Ireland. The 4 provinces is on the Grays inn road. About 300 yards from where I am sat right now. Its much smaller, but the staff really know their stuff and are always up for a chat about this and that.
Its my favourite subject talking about Celtic and Ireland so fignting the same fight over and over again suits me just fine as I'm not so smart so its suits my arguing style!!!
I'm glad that there are folk out there from 'a land beyond the wave' who choose to follow the history af their 'sire-land' and not just on the superficial levels of sport.
Cheers PP, ironically I emailed them about 3hrs ago, asking for help in locating a course!! Sounds like the correspondence/residential course would be ideal if they still do it. Have also got on to Liverpool Uni as well, though I think P/T is the best they can offer and that will probably clash with work!!Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Junior
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
One of the places I also tried was the old Bath CHE, which I believe is now Bath Spa University College. IIRC, they did a correspondence/residential style course, which might suit your needs. Bath was the home to the British Association for Irish Studies, which has now moved to Royal Holloway College, part of the University of London. Their website is at http://www.english.ltsn.ac.uk/bais/ and will probably have all the answers you need. If not, they'll know exactly who does.
Hope that's of some use.
I'll keep you posted, thanks for the help.
Jnr
[COLOR=firebrick][SIZE=8]"celtic could accept awards from the kkk for humanatarian work,and their "fans" would justify it."[/SIZE][/COLOR]
eh.. good one! not really though.
You say "fans". Does that describe the 80,000-100,000 people who went ot seville knowing they probably would'nt get a ticket and drank and sang with opposing fans not once causing trouble?
Kinda stupid spending all that money to go to watch a match in the pub i would have thought.Quote:
Does that describe the 80,000-100,000 people who went ot seville knowing they probably would'nt get a ticket and drank and sang
:D :p
That said, most (OIrish) Sellthick fans have never been inside a football ground ever to see a live match in their lives and would only miss the replays and the commentary etc.
errrrr yeah-best fans by both UEFA and FIFA involved with the KKK hmmm mabye not. Irish Celtic fans never being in the stadium that's a laugh, even at Fulham in a pre-season friendly I met hundreds-the whole place was Irish!
"Kinda stupid spending all that money to go to watch a match in the pub i would have thought"
No no no-that's called Loy-al-ty , it means you respect your club and will go all that way to represent it even if you havent got a ticket. Try it- Loy-al-ty
Is it.For every irish man in parkhead at a celtic match there ten more in ireland who have never been at a real soccer matchQuote:
Originally posted by liam88
Irish Celtic fans never being in the stadium that's a laugh
I dont even have a problem with that.Quote:
Originally posted by Bosco
who have never been at a real soccer match
What gets me is out of the remaining nine, 7-8 couldn't give a toss about going ever.
And nearly all nine will go out of their way to knock the LOI, having never been to a game.
I actually probably wouldn't have a problem with the one that is over there, it is most of the remaining nine give them all a bad name. Most have a clue what they are on about.
I say TAR the mothers with the one brush and be done with it .... let 'em burn i tells ya .... BURN .... :D :D :D
I am not a Celtic fan but I was at Parkhead not so long ago for a league match against Partick Thistle. It was a few days after the match against Bayern Munich. The match was v poor - the only excitement being that Thistle went ahead.
The "famous" Celtic crowd that supports their team through everything could barely be heard. Most of them were leaving 20 minutes before the end of the match because it was raining.
Like every team many of Celtic's thousands of fans are glory chasers and nothing anyone will say will change that.
having been to parkhead a lot a have seen these kind of matches.
post european hang over. Thats all. Celtic havent lost in the league at home under Martin O Neill in three years except once against Dundee. You will understand given the timing of the game the lack of atmosphere especially seeing as most teams dont even make the effort to attack. Parkhead has been voted the best atmosphere in "Britain" according to the examiner. I have seen it at first hand and its unreal.
RebelBhoy, I think you're wasting your time trying to engage in a debate about Celtic and our fans with some of these posters hereabouts. A good example is provided by "a face" and his/her view that we Celtic fans should all be tarred with the same brush and burned or whatever. I once tried to discuss the point with him/her and got nowhere. Never mind.
That said, I do have sympathy with Niamh's point; however, football is competing with other offerings in the entertainment business, and success coupled with a quality product breeds demand. If that pulls in "glory hunters", then so be it. I wouldn't however say that this phenomenon accounts for the "many" Celtic supporters who attended the Partick game (I'll not speak for the members of Couch Potato CSC), as the vast majority of those supporters who are old enough followed the club right through the lean years of the 1990s and paid good money for the privilege. Myself included.
:) PP
You're right there. It just annoys me when i see people and kids wearing Celtic shirts, living nearly a thousnad miles from the place and having no chance of going to a game. What's the point. And they call themselves Celtic 'fans'. I have no problem with real fans, none at all, as most of these real fans also support their locals LOI team. Fair play.But, if evey 'fan' bought an El team jersey, hoe much stronger would he league be getting. They may even go a match...Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
RebelBhoy, I think you're wasting your time trying to engage in a debate about Celtic and our fans with some of these posters hereabouts.
I know the point you're making, and I have some sympathy. Just out of interest, do you and others hereabouts feel the same way about those in Ireland who follow Premiership clubs?
:) PP
EVERY team has glory hunters-absolutley EVERY team!
Burn the Celtic fans ey? You'll be pretty lonley in Cork then ;)
I support Rebelbohy here!
As for wearign shirts when you can't see a match being glory hunters-does this include people who are too poor to afford tickets but still were the shirt they saved up for 6 months to buy because they love their team?
Yeah,well i do anyway.Its prob worse seeing people walking around in premiership jerseys because it usually means that they are obsessed with the club where as alot of people wearing celtic jerseys in ireland only wear it because of the irish link and don't really care to much about the clubQuote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Just out of interest, do you and others hereabouts feel the same way about those in Ireland who follow Premiership clubs?
isnt that a bit harsh when there wasnt any glory for a very long period when rangers dominated the scottish gameQuote:
Originally posted by niamh
Like every team many of Celtic's thousands of fans are glory chasers and nothing anyone will say will change that.
The Doldrums of 2nd place eh?
:rolleyes:
Irish link? What Irish link?
Follow a foreign team all you want, support a team who you can actually really SUPPORT ie go to their games weekly, without fail, be it a top of the table clash or a cup tie against some pub team.
Feck this im off to bed!
Ain't that the truth? I think even my bank manager has started looking out for Celtic results now... trips to Europe and all that need financing somehow! As far as he was concerned, Seville = nice loan for PP.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
That's football mania for you. It does funny, inexplicable things.
:D PP - Overdraft CSC
grand job gary, no hassle with your point of view. But just to let ya no Im always at the cross and go to parkhead whenever possible. I dont regard Celtic as a completely foreign club. I think its an identity. Founded by Irish for poor Irish Catholics in the eastend of Glasgow(who are still there) and fly the tricolur over earth they imported from Donegal. Incidentally the tricolour was presented to the club by De Valera when the old one became tattered and nobody in Scotland would make one for the club at the time out of anti Irishness.
The club has around 6-7,000 Irish based season ticket holders(unfortunately I have to make do with the waiting least), add to that a two or three more thousand who travel over on a single ticket, and add to that the irish ex-pats from England and Wales. Then the rest (well nearly) is made up of second and third genereation Irish from Parkhead, Gallowgate, Easterhouse, Coatbridge and East Kilbride (Obviously other areas of west scotland too though) who see Celtic as a way of expressing their Irishness. Im behind them all the way.
I have followed Celtic through the Ninetys which is basically all my life(cant remember being six like!). All through the bankrupcy time and all that, and getting beaten in nearly every old firm. This does not make me less of a city man, just a Celt(or tim) as well. See ya in de shed!
I would be inclined to agree with you here ConorQuote:
Originally posted by Conor74
However I salute those like Pastic Paddy who really do support the team, who go to games, but have no time for the 99% in this country who watch the games on RTE and tie it in with some with some quasi republican mythology crap and somehow end up with the idea that they are expressing their nationalism through a British club
But
[COLOR=crimson][SIZE=10]I'd rather see them all burn !![/SIZE] [/COLOR]
Click here !!
Some of my mates head over now and then.I presume they see it as an outlet to express they're irishness but when I ask if they'll come with us on the next national team away trip they've no interest.
Surely you can't get more irish than the Ireland team,I dunno!Maybe it's mindless republicanism there after and not irishness? No problem with republicans and would prob consider me one mesmelf but it is the mindless 'the word according to the Wolfetones/Eire Og/Sibeen/Old Brigade etc etc' type which quite p*sses me off and you get too much of that among irish Celtic fans.Think you should actually know why you support the cause,anyway I digress.
'Twould take a bloody big fire to burn all us Celtic fans, but probably only a box of Cara and a gallon of red diesel for yous down at the Cross, hey? ;)
:p PP
Yeah .... but i am only a stones throw from the cross.Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
'Twould take a bloody big fire to burn all us Celtic fans, but probably only a box of Cara and a gallon of red diesel for yous down at the Cross, hey? ;)
:p PP
How far would half of you lot have to travel to even get a smell of the singe ??
And PP ..... did i mention that Sell-Thick are British !! :D
And that will never ever change !! :D
Do you think they would fill Parkhead regularly if Rangers were trashing them in the league? No they wouldn't. At the time Celtic were points ahead in the league and the ground wasn't even full. United even when they are points ahead will fill Old Trafford.Quote:
Originally posted by thecorner
isnt that a bit harsh when there wasnt any glory for a very long period when rangers dominated the scottish game
The one thing I will say though is that I know the odd Irish Celtic fan who have season tickets and went to all the European games last season. There are some genuine ones out there and the rest of the glory hunters must really ****ed them off!!
Thread mereged with "Quote of the day"
try and keep Celtic related threads here please.
I know loads of Celtic fans both from Catholic and Protestant descent from other parts of Scotland who have little modern day Irish descent. More like 4 generations ago for most of them and you could probably say that about half of Scotland. These people are Scots - not as you would describe them as 3rd or fourth generation Irish - most of them have probably never been to Ireland save a visit to donegal. The flying of the Tricolour and the singing of the Fields of Athenry doesn't make someone Irish.Quote:
Originally posted by RebelBhoy
Then the rest (well nearly) is made up of second and third genereation Irish from Parkhead, Gallowgate, Easterhouse, Coatbridge and East Kilbride (Obviously other areas of west scotland too though) who see Celtic as a way of expressing their Irishness. Im behind them all the way.
There are loads of reasons why that happens - some due to the Irish origins of Celtic but some due to west of Scotland sectarianism - ths is a Scottish problem that bizarrely reflects an Irish problem - but it's Scottish nonetheless. Indeed this mass flying of the tricolour etc and the flipside at Ibrox has really taken off in the last 20-30 years at parkheid and probably reflects the northern Ireland situation - that's all.
Interestingly, enough on the flags at celtic park issue I know a few folk who have wanted to take the saltire to parkhead and have done so only to be sometimes given stick - usually from types telling them this doesn't belong here at Celtic park :D :confused: probably cos it's blue and Scotland is of course a hun, brit country anti-catholic etc - keep up the paranoia.........and keep voting north-brit labour bhoys!!!
Do these types steadfastly refuse to swim in the sea or look at the sky cos it's blue? It's blue-aaaaarggh!!!!!!!!
Jam,
Haven't met before, so hello! As someone who has been critical of certain sections of Parkhead, was heartened to see a four part flag of the flags of Scotland (saltire), Ireland, Spain and the Celtic green and white flag at the last Old firm while watching the game on the box. I think times are changing, particularly as it was traditional to have the Ikurina, which is ironic considering the only Basque to play in an old firm (I may be wrong) wore a blue shirt.