Rugby World Cup

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

O'Connell and co were as much to blame for the lineout disaster as Flannery was. To be fair even with Best throwing the ball in - our lineout (something we have excelled at for the past few seasons) has been disappointing. On the whole I thought Flannery was decent in the loose as was John Hayes.

What really disappointed me was that our players did not challenge the French lineout. The odd lineout steal would have been useful instead we waited.....

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Agree. Flannery's loose play made up for the line-out problems.

Its not automatically the hookers fault and O'Connell as signal caller should at least take some of the blame for continuing to call to the tail. When the lineout isn't functioning you throw a few to the front jumper and/or cut the numbers to build a bit of confidence. You don't throw high risk ball to the tail.

Whilst I understand the reasons behind not challenging opposition lineout near the line, I fail to understand not doing it further up the pitch.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

if..........if...........if............we beat Argentina by less than 7 points, while scoring 4 or more tries, then both teams would end with 15 points.

Meanwhile, France win and get 5 points, which means all three have 15 points.

So it moves to individual results against teams, where we've all beaten each other.

Then it moves on to points difference, where we are the worst.

Is there any way France will not qualify? I'd like us and Argentina to go through.

Any way they won't score 4 tries against Georgia?

Any way I'll stop fantasizing??

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At the moment before the games:

Argentina - 14
France - 10
Ireland - 9

Ireland max is 14 not 15.

Ireland can not finish on 15 points

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

At the moment before the games:

Argentina - 14
France - 10
Ireland - 9

Ireland max is 14 not 15.

Ireland can not finish on 15 points

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Right. I'm wrong again :o. Cheers. If Argentina get a bonus point, they win the group? (having won the France game)

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Right. I'm wrong again :o. Cheers. If Argentina get a bonus point, they win the group? (having won the France game)

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yep because they have the better head to head. Hence all the French will be rooting for us to give em a thrashing!!! :D

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

yep because they have the better head to head. Hence all the French will be rooting for us to give em a thrashing!!! :D

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Us going through would mean that France would play Scotland at home in the QFs instead of All Blacks in Wales.

Real incentive for France to see us through. The ref isn't Jutge by any chance?:D

Its hard to know what team to pick for next week but thats what O'Sullivan is picked for. Persist with out of form players hoping they turn it around or draft in fresh players who don't have match fitness?

Argentina are capable of keeping possession so its important to pick a team that can both get the ball & keep it. Will be important not to kick the ball away stupidly like the previous games.

Team: Dempsey, Horgan, O'Driscoll, Trimble/Duffy, Murphy, O'Gara, Reddan, Horan, Best/Flannery Hayes, O'Connell, O'Kelly, Wallace, Leamy, Best.

Bench: Young, Best/Flannery, Quinlan, Easterby, Wallace, Trimble/Duffy, Hickie.

Some players have poor form but just can't see the alternatives

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...sh/7010781.stm

our chance of scoring 4 tries take another hit......

I was intriuged by Neil Francis' team, he picked for Argentina. All out attack in the backs:

Dempsey

Carney
Darcy
Horgan
Hickie

O Driscoll
Reddan.

Drop O Gara and the kicking game and attack them using a running game. Go for the tries and use Dempsey to kick conversions etc. Interesting to say the least.

Never going happen though.

The fallacy that Horgan is a centre persists in Francis' head.

Apart from that its worth trying, although I'd prefer Murphy at fullback.

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Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

I was intriuged by Neil Francis' team, he picked for Argentina. All out attack in the backs:

Dempsey

Carney
Darcy
Horgan
Hickie

O Driscoll
Reddan.

Drop O Gara and the kicking game and attack them using a running game. Go for the tries and use Dempsey to kick conversions etc. Interesting to say the least.

Never going happen though.

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the dropping of O'Gara was a bit pie in the sky tho, thats never going to happen to be honest id agree with most of what he said - is go with the following team

Horan,Flannery,Hayes

O'Kelly, O'Connell - Bringing in a bit more experience might shore up our lineout

Easterby, Wallace, Quinlan - leamy hasn't played that well so bring on Quinlan for a bit of extra enthusaism

Reddan, O'Gara

Carney and Horgan - wings - play Carney at 11 , Drop Trimble

O'Driscoll, Darcy

and Id go with Murphy full back - Murphy can provide a bit of magic and i see no reason why he shouldn't play if we are chasing 4 tries. Tough on Dempsey tho.

Dempsey shouldn't be dropped. He is one of the few players to come away from these farcical few weeks with pass marks.

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Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

Dempsey shouldn't be dropped. He is one of the few players to come away from these farcical few weeks with pass marks.

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Never been his biggest fan but Argentina will kick a lot of ball so need someone dependable but he also needs to be told that when its a 50:50 decision he has to run with the ball in hand.

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Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

Dempsey shouldn't be dropped. He is one of the few players to come away from these farcical few weeks with pass marks.

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Dempsey has got a surprising number of tries in his career, important ones as well, but they tend to come where he comes in at the end of a move and finishes off.

A strike running fullback who attacks from deep he ain't.

If we don't go through, I'd like to see the French get whipped by the All Blacks in the 1/4 finals.

Everybody Hates England...apparently

Dempsey injured- Murphy starting. Trimble dropped for Hickie. AN Other at hooker...Flannery injured. Bye Bye World Cup...

A lot of people seem fierce anxious to axe O'Callaghan and Easterby when (together with Hayes) they were the best of our forwards against France. For me Wallace, O'Connell and Horan have been the most disappointing but we've no real alternative to Wallace or Horan and, despite his muppetry the other night, most people would still baulk at the idea of dropping O'Connell.

The pack isn't performing well and even if they do get their act together for the Argentinean game, I can't see them mauling their way over the line; we're going to something special from the backs...

Ah sure who cares?! We don't deserve to go through, it'd be a terrible injustice on the Argentineans.

So thats Eddie's version of throwing caution to the wind......sweet jesus.

I also love people saying "there are no real alternatives". Yes there are. There are alternatives in every position.

Surely we are well beyond the point of not playing them because they haven't previously set the world on fire.

Its broken Eddie, change it you moron.

This team would cause most damage against the Argies imo:(Dempsey injured)

Murphy; Horgan, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Carney; O'Gara, Reddan; Young, Flannery, Hayes;, O'Connell, O'Kelly; Best (6), Quinlan (7), Easterby (8).

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

So thats Eddie's version of throwing caution to the wind......sweet jesus.

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Has the team been selected then, I cant see it on BBC or RTE ??

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

This team would cause most damage against the Argies imo:(Dempsey injured)

Murphy; Horgan, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Carney; O'Gara, Reddan; Young, Flannery, Hayes;, O'Connell, O'Kelly; Best (6), Quinlan (7), Easterby (8).

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Again, I don't thing Donnacha deserves to be dropped, but the other changes make sense. I don't think either Horgan or Hickie are 100% fit so Carney could replace either of them. I'd love to see Leamy coming off the bench as an impact sub, still smarting after being dropped, wouldn't like to be the recipient of his first tackle :D

Only changes (so far) are Murphy for Dempsey and Hickie for Trimble.

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Originally Posted by beautifulrock

Has the team been selected then, I cant see it on BBC or RTE ??

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...sh/7012164.stm

Thanks, not really going for it. Cant believe Quinlan did not even make the bench. Can a miracle occur in Paris on sunday evening? We need a try in the first 10 minutes to have even the faintest hope.

disappointed Neil Best isn't starting.

Back to basics.

It might have been a risk but O'Sullivan could have gone with 5 forwards & pick Quinlan. Wallace will never come off the bench anyway.

Apart from Neil Best I can't see any of the replacements having a meaningful impact, I'd have Quinlan and Carney on the bench at least.

Its not like that team has set the world on fire. Why does he insist on giving it so many chances?


This whole thing has been a bigger farce than Saipan. We get the biggest gaps between games in the entire competition and O' Sullivan thinks it gives him the abilty to keep the same team, game in game out. ********

Quinlan and Carney should be on the bench. Carney signed for munster so he would have a great chance of playin the RWC and he is gone all that way for nothing, I think it's a disgrace that he didn't get a game against Georgia or Namibia, a place on the bench should have been the minimun for this game. How does Trimble deserve a place on the bench for this game?

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Originally Posted by pete

Back to basics.

Wallace will never come off the bench anyway.

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Wallace's place on the bench could have gone to an extra forward or back. If ROG did get injuired Murphy could fill in at FH, he played there in Argentina in the summer, not a great display but its a risk we should take. Wallace has no use in this game whatsoever :mad:

is anyone else puzzled as to why, being gifted two easy opening games against the minnows, that EOS didnt play/start his fringe players in those games?

It would have been interesting to see how the likes of David Wallace (great player), Quinlan, O'Kelly (to a lesser extent), Carney and Murphy would have done against Georgia and Namibia. Or try Trimble in the centre. Just mix and match it a bit and you have hungry players who have something to prove playing against, lets be honest, bad bad teams.

It prevents the niggly injuries of the top players, you have players who feel they have something to play for and you know exactly what they are capable of doing.

I dont know, i really feel that Eddie has messed up big time. He really has a heck of a lot to answer for. This feels like the early-to-mid 90's all over again. :mad:

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Originally Posted by SkStu

......It would have been interesting to see how the likes of David Wallace (great player), Quinlan, O'Kelly (to a lesser extent), Carney and Murphy would have done against Georgia and Namibia......

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Assume you mean Paddy Wallace?

David Wallace played in both these games. Replaced 10 minutes from time by Best against Namibia and yellow carded against Georgia.

my bad. :o i meant Paddy.

bring back Richard Wallace!

Paddy Wallace great player? That doesn't make sense either

why is youngirish the only poster allowed to rant irrationally??? :o

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Originally Posted by SkStu

why is youngirish the only poster allowed to rant irrationally??? :o

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LOL!! i have wondered that myself...:D

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Originally Posted by SkStu

is anyone else puzzled as to why, being gifted two easy opening games against the minnows, that EOS didnt play/start his fringe players in those games?

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I think lots of people have, after all it's O'Sullivans insistance on playing the same team over and over again that has got us in this mess in the first place.

He never had a plan B for when players are off form. This team peaked about a year and a half ago IMO.

Best quote from O'Sullivan's comical press conference yesterday (comical only in the sense the man is clearly deluded at this stage) was when asked about why he hadn't changed the backrow, he replied that he was "happy with the balance" of the current selection.

Christ on a bike. Did he mean they were all equally bad? How bad/anonymous would they have to be to be unbalanced?

They collectively haven't taken lineout ball, picked and drove, punched holes in defences or linked back and forward play, nor have they put opposition fly halves under much pressure. Which is pretty much all a back row is supposed to do.

Didn't think Easterby was that bad against France.

Problem was that the first two pool games were being treated as warm up games - in hindsight that looks like a mistake. However, if the first game had been a comprehensive win and/or performance, I'd say we would've seen changes for the Georgia game. He had to try and get the team to play into form.

Whether we should've written off the last championship and autumn series to blood players is the real debate, which wasn't really convincingly had at the time. And I'm not convinced really, as the team was in such good form it was probably right to try and keep it going. Should more of the first team have gone to Argentina, with more of a mix in those two games rather than total second string, considering the lack of game time for certain players?

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Originally Posted by SkStu

why is youngirish the only poster allowed to rant irrationally??? :o

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