They did - and for Rovers to be so outplayed home and away by a part-time team is appalling. What's not to get?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Printable View
They did - and for Rovers to be so outplayed home and away by a part-time team is appalling. What's not to get?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Its would be hard to sack him on the basis of going out tonight after a harsh sending off.
Maybe if they were way off the pace in the league as well he would be gone on the basis the new guy could start the rebuild between now and end of season.
Cant see him going before seasons end but equally cant see him being there for the new season if they dont beat Shels to the title.
Won’t someone think about the coefficient. Is that 1.000 so far?
It is. Derry almost certainly weren't going to get anything off Copenhagen so in that regard the win is all that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by ger121
There's one tie going to a shoot-out now and the table will be updated then.
Higgins has underachieved to-date despite a cup win and a good euro run. However, he is still in the cup and a very good chance they could win. He will be going nowhere yet.
I would be of the same view PS.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Early days but we are up to 32nd in the Country Rankings.
The win and a draw lift us up to 32nd, ahead of Kosovo. Nosebleed territory in fairness; very rare we'd be that high up. I think 29th was our record since UEFA went to 50+ countries.
But the next round will be very tough; not expecting a big haul at all. Four countries below us still have all their teams left in. Two have outscored us so far this season - but really with the first round draw we got, you'd have expected a better return. There's plenty of second round games where lower countries can do well - the Icelandic clubs have opposition from Kosovo, Scotland, Estonia and Albania for example. It'd almost be surprising if they didn't pass us out after that.
As always, the Champions League representative will impact things a lot with more games and the best chance of getting to the groups and getting double points
We finished 5th last season, beat same club 3-1 on agg, this was an absolutely shocking result by Derry with probably twice the budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Said it far too many times on here, Higgins is a coach**not a manager.
**SOD and Perth also fall into same bracket, S.Keegan too, I'd also add Bohs manager Reynolds, and previous one Devine too to this list. Its a big list................
They really lucked out with some of those draws in the league path.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think it's both a terrible result and a commendable effort given the red card tbh
Copenhagen are going to win the next round about 17-0
Is there some irony in P6 Dundalk name checking BATE as the model they wante to follow?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Derry result is arguably the worst for LoI in Europe but less for performance but due to the relative resources between the 2 clubs and past bad ones. There have been worse footballing performances, Sligo home to Vlaznia, an overspending Shels and Hibs Malta?
It could be that blessing in disguise for Derry as they either will take control of the title run in and a possible cup run with no more distractions, do or die or it leaves Higgins with absolutely no credit in the bank to keep the job.
Last year their domestic form was sketchy but went in to Europe and looked decent v KuPS and especially 2nd leg v Tobol they were expansive and unexpectedly dominated possession for good spells, attacked on the front foot when they were expect to play on the break and unlucky, losing on penalties. Looked like they had found a level of perormance that they could take in to the league again but nope. This year they are off 4 league wins on the spin, putting pressure on Shels and had the very winnable draw, but nope. People pass comments on sides having squads that would almost coach themselves and walk a league with all the quality and experience, not any more if ever really. Heart doesnt cut it alone and Higgins has missed something in the 1st leg whatever about being undone by a red card tonight.
Higgins is very much in bother.... The fans are now really starting to get annoyed with his lack of tactical knowledge and his defensive mindset. He ruined the game in Extra time last night by changing the formation and giving up the midfield completely. His changes seemed very much a hit and hope effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
We could be out of the cup come Sunday and then out of the league next week if we lose to Shels. Surely that would be the end of RH unless Phillip O'Doherty lets him see out the season then doesn't renew his contract.
This is a massive week in the life of Derry City once again and the start we have got off to is horrendous.
The details for Monday's draw are confirmed now. If Rovers beat Sparta Prague, they'll face the winners of one of the following ties in the third round -
PAOK v Borac Banja Luka
FCSB v Maccabi Tel Aviv
Ferencvaros v TNS
Lincoln Red Imps v Qarabag
Celje v Slovan Bratislava
Bodo/Glimt v RFS Riga
Actually Sparta Prague seem stronger than most of those. Though if we're honest it seems far more likely Rovers will be in the Europa League instead, where they'll face the losers of one of the following ties in the third round -
APOEL v Petrocub (Moldova)
PAOK v Borac Banja Luka
Celje v Slovan Bratislava
Ludogorets Razgrad v Dinamo Minsk
Panevezys v Jagellonia Bialystok
Santa Coloma v Midtjylland
That then has the mix of teams they should beat (Santa Coloma), they'd have a decent chance against (Panevezys, Petrocub) and really awkward ties you just want to keep away from (Borac Banja Luka, Dinamo Minsk, even Celje)
The third qualifying round Conference League draw is also on Monday but no pools available yet. Almost certain Shels won't need to worry about it, but wouldn't rule out Pat's getting past Vaduz, even if they probably won't be favourites.
No - part-time - they were established as a pub team (in Bruno's Bar) for £500 ten years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Now - they have run up big debts in the past five years paying journeymen part-time Spanish players in their mid- to late-30s to fill out their squad in the hope of doing what they did to Derry. I gave a break down a couple of pages back.
But there is no way that any team from Gibraltar should be anything other than canon fodder for a LOI team in Europe (and Derry are currently the second best team in the LOI)
Tbf having watched the 2nd leg, they were cannon fodder, and Derry just found a way to lose it. Without the red I think they'd have won 5-0. Bruno's were absolutely shook when 2-0 down to 10 men, and Derry just ran out of steam I think. Very tough to press a team so hard for so long a man down. Add it to the litany of one's that got away in Europe sob stories.
Next week, I reckon at best Rovers draw the home leg and go out after a heavy away loss. I checked and Prague's top 4 goalscorers were at the Euro's so none of them have been playing in pre season. Their fitness will be questionable. A chance to catch them on the hop and keep the tie tight. Their season is just starting and they will also have a league game next weekend while Rovers will have the weekend free. Rovers are heavy underdogs, but any results they can pick up will help the coefficient. They'll lose in the end, and then it's all down to the luck of the draw in q3 of the Europa League.
I think Pat's will do Vaduz, but it will be very tight, Pat's having a few weeks free could help or hurt them, I hear they've won 2/3 friendlies while everyone else has been playing league/europe, and made some decent signings, hopefully the little break has given Kenny a chance to get a hold of the squad and make sense of what they're doing. Vaduz are wealthy and dangerous, but they're playing 2nd tier football and just coming out of pre season, will also have a mid week match next week while Pat's have it free. Lost last season's top scorer to a league rival. They're wildly inconsistent in Europe, some times good, sometimes awful, like our clubs I guess.
Shels are playing a good top tier Swiss side, so it'll be interesting to see the gulf between Zurich and Vaduz, if they get any sort of draw it'll all be gravy, but I doubt they have much of a chance. Did their job getting this far. In all honesty they'll probably be happy enough to take the cash and get a quick exit to concentrate on the league this time around. Might be a bit of a disaster next year if they do it, and are unseeded in the Champions league mind!
Best case scenario we have 2 clubs in the 3rd round, but Rovers should pick up a few results and drag us close to the top 33 spot by the end of qualifying you'd hope, I'm probably being overly optimistic on Pat's but time will tell.
Getting way ahead of myself but with things domestically being very interesting, if Waterford and Galway did find themselves in Europe and Shels won it, we could have 3/4 clubs unseeded in the first round next season, and could be a bit of a disaster :D Or would the leagues co efficient itself be high enough for Galway/Waterford to be seeded in ECL?
Shocking result for Derry. Surely the only way to salvage some sort of dignity from this is to sack Higgins.
Very odd that there were four-sendings off (all from LOI sides) in six ties. I think there were only two sendings-off in the entire recent Euros.
I think the fitness part can be over-done a bit - they're professional footballers and they won't have turned to blobs because they've had two weeks of a sun holiday. (I think it's different with a part-time club like Bruno's Magpies - pre-season can make a bigger difference there)Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
The bigger issue for Sparta is they'll still be gelling in new players and a new manager (though they've appointed their assistant, which should help with continuity). But they got to the last 16 of the Europa League last year - they were knocked out of the CL on penalties by Copenhagen, beat Dinamo Zagreb in the Europa playoffs, came out of a group with Rangers, Betis and Aris Limassol, beat Galatasaray in the first knock-out round and finally lost 11-2 to Liverpool. There's some serious results there, and it wasn't a one-off run. Rovers have a habit of being exposed by this sort of team. A home draw would be a great result. I don't see it happening though.
Pat's - Kenny is a good LoI manager and has European pedigree too, but I think this tie is maybe a year too soon. Their league form is still poor - two wins in nine since Kenny took over - and though Kenny is starting to change the squad around, that won't really help much with the game next week.
I think with the way the second round draw has gone, we'll be doing very well indeed to maintain our current position by the season's end.
Good point on Waterford/Galway - I think without any European history, they're going to be unseeded next year if they get there. But that doesn't matter as much as you'd think - Shels were unseeded this year, but could have faced Breidablik, Dudelange, Tre Penne, Crues or Joey's. Get a regular European qualifier from a poor league and that's as good as being seeded.
As far as I’m aware there is very little expectation on our tie next week. The league form says it all and the opposition will be far from mugs. Hopefully we are competitive that’s all that can be expected.
Bohs sacked Kenny around 2004 after going out in Europe to a better side Levadia Tallin.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Rovers have a free hot on Tuesday but I expect us to lose to a team as strong as Sparta. Stubis right re full time pros and pre season, they will all have had programmes to stick to during the summer and will be miles ahead technically. If we do lose by a couple on Tuesday we should be taking a practical approach to the second leg.
I take your point re fitness, I was thinking as much, that their star players may be jaded, and just back from a bit of a holiday, you hear a lot of pro's saying it takes them 5/6 games to really feel back in to the swing of things. I don't expect them to be unfit, but just not at 100%, I don't think it'll matter over the course of the tie by any means, but just that nicking a tight draw at home is Rovers best bet of doing anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I enjoy Vaduz' strange existence in world football, and keep an eye out for them every year since Longford played them, I just think they're very weird, and can occasionally be terrible, I expect Pat's will put an awful lot in to it because their season is all over the place, Kenny probably needs a big result, I also expect them to beat Derry after their Euro exertions, I think the hour with 10 men will have taken a lot out of them, they looked shattered. So the vibes and momentum might be a bit better around Richmond than they would have been before the transfer window.
I reckon Rovers will lose in CL Q2. Worst case they lose EL Q3, they'll surely be seeded in ECL Q4 and would get likely get a decent draw against another side that's lost two rounds, definitely no gurantees. We're going to rely heavily on them to keep the league in top 33. But with the new formats that's basically it for every small nation sub 30th. Very few nations below us will be picking up points by q3 I'd imagine.
It's not so much last night that done us (though some questions to be asked about the latter stages), but the result over in Gibraltar. IMO, he should have resigned after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Utterly pathetic stuff over the two legs, but is anyone all that surprised?
It's the worst result I've witnessed as a Derry City fan, and it's up there with the worst result of any LoI club in Europe. Longford and Bohs losing to Wales sides springs to mind, it's certainly in that category. Magpies are not a good side. Tall, physical, but that's basically it. We should never have been in any danger of losing that tie.
Higgins talks about unacceptable performances, but in reality, they are accepted. We're half way through the July, and we've made one signing, another midfielder. We're crying out for a couple of centre halves. It looks like we'll be keeping the same squad until the end of the season.
FWIW, I think Higgins will be here to the end of the season. We have Pats in the cup on Sunday, who are coming up to Derry on the Saturday night, so must be taking it very seriously. They'll be fancying their chances. Then, unless it's moved, Shels are up next. Lose those two, and the season is over.
Not disagreeing overall at all - I think it's more general team cohesion that's the factor. It's not long since Bohs and Dundalk gave PAOK and Vitesse proper frights despite their opponents clearly being better; the LoI guys were that bit more match sharp and took their chances whereas the others missed a hatful. It's certainly possible. It's the main reason the LoI moved to summer soccer after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Just takes one of them to reach the groups and they could pick up a decent amount. Last year I think there were five countries ranked lower than us that had teams in the groups (Bosnia, Iceland, Faroes, Kosovo and Finland)Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Looking at the Champions League for example - Belarus, Wales, Bosnia, Latvia, the Faroes, Andorra, Lithuania and Gibraltar all have their champions one win away from the group stages (same as Rovers are at present)
I both have absolutely no confidence in Rovers, but still for some reason think they'll make the ECL groups, and that anyone below us will end up just about mirroring us :D
beginning to think we shoulda sent Sligo's reserves into Europe
I looked at the Magpies team and from memory looks largely similar to who we played last July, I was worried about our away leg due to the heat, and I was there to witness it at 33c at 5pm KO, so I was happy enough with a 0-0 draw. We beat them comfortably 3-1 at home in the second leg, and I didn't think they looked up to much, prob LOI mid table FD standard, so its a bitter pill for Derry to swallow this one I`m afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
As I said a few times on here, Higgins is a coach, not a manager, but not sure I`d agree he should have been sacked after first leg, but has to be on thin ice now, for starters the player budget must be 50k+ a week, you / he has to be doing better than this with that outlay.
Out of 6 matches we’ve had players sent off in 4 of those matches. 2 for diving I think. Being down to 10 men certainly made it tougher for Rovers in both games. It probably cost Derry progression as they would have beaten Magpies 3/4-0 with 11 on the pitch, or at the very least in ET. Europe is tough as it is so you don’t want to be giving teams an extra advantage. I feel our discipline has cost us to some degree in the games to-date.
Silver lining from the Derry result is that they've saved me 20 quid from paying a 10er twice to see them defend again Copenhagen.
Well, they would have lost 12-0, so it's a silver lining for many of us. Spare a thought for the players that signed for Derry, drawn by the lure of playing in Europe, only to later find it all too difficult to get past the 1st round and one of the weakest teams on the whole continent.Quote:
Originally Posted by yurt
Just watched the highlights of the game there. I think your assessment of magpies is spot on. I know looks can be deceiving but a few of their players looked a little rotund. Losing 2-0 to that side is embarrassing. Ill give Higgins credit on one thing though. He has built a team in his image. I always thought of him as a player who's a bit overrated and lacked either graft of clinical edge to be truly great. That's exactly how I feel about this Derry team.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve
I watched the highlights just there aswell of Derry/Magpies, they looked similar to St. Joseph's technically limited but physically more than able to compete
In some defence of Derry that decision to send off O'Reilly was ridiculous, I see it was an Andorran referee, Shels also had a different Andorran referee for the Joseph's game at Tolka and he let them away with absolute murder, I would have thought UEFA assigning referees from another microstate sharing same language as the majority of the players from one of the opposition would have been considered a sketchy refereeing assignment?
Agreed on the O'Reilly decision. You know it's a bad one when the opposition aren't even calling for it. I thought Derry looked to play well in the 2nd leg even down to 10. My point is more so on the 1st leg. That result is an embarrassment when you can outplay the opponent for a good amount of time in the 2nd leg with 10 men. It's just an inexcusable collapse. There are certainly factors like the weather to consider but Derry are set up to play with the ball and hold possession which should benefit them in those conditions but for whatever reason they lost 2-0 and ultimately put themselves out of the tieQuote:
Originally Posted by total hoofball
I think those sort of arguments can be just reading too much into things. Viking could similarly have complained about an English ref in Tallaght.Quote:
Originally Posted by total hoofball
(Also, the pedant in me feels obliged to point Andorra and Gibraltar don't share the same language - the official language of Andorra is Catalan and of Gibraltar is English).
Jeez the last thing Viking would have been complaining about in Tallght was the refQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Rovers will play winners of Steau Bucharest or Macabi tel aviv if they get past Sparta Prague
I haven't taken much notice of the European campaigns over the last two seasons. If European success is supposed to be important for the league brand, it probably will take a standout result like shocking Sparta Prague for the "general sporting public" to take notice.
If Rovers don't get past Sparta Prague they'll play Celje or Slovan Bratislava. Was hoping that Andorran team would come out but not to be.
That was the worst draw you could have gotten in my view. Probably Cejie.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Yeah, that's a rough one. Celje certainly won't fear LoI opposition after easily beating Dundalk a couple of years back. And Slovan have beaten both Dundalk and Rovers in recent years.