He's supposed to be a very good cook.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Printable View
He's supposed to be a very good cook.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Good at working with players, youth as well as experienced, tactically aware, young(ish) and progressive, likes attacking football etc - you know, management stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
When Benham took over, his first managerial appointment was Uwe Rosler. He introduced a whole new level of professionalism to the club, even if his playing style was very defensive. Left for a bigger/better job.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Next was Mark Warburton - a "left-field" choice, in that although he had coaching badges, he had no great football background, having been a City trader and p-t youth coach at Watford before becoming Director of Football at BFC. He got them promotion from Lge One (and v.nearly from the Championship), with a much more attacking brand of football. Left because he demanded to be a Manager (e.g. full control over transfers etc), rather than the Head Coach position the club was transitioning to.
Dijkhuizen, whom you refer to, was promoted from within at the very start of the following summer, but even by the first league game in August, the club had doubts about their decision, and instead of, say, giving him until Christmas to see how it was going, they cut their losses after 9 games and binned him. Almost uniquely amongst owners, Benham held his hands up and admitted he (MB) had got it wrong. Dijkhuizen has since done sod-all in management.
Carsley was to be their next choice, but when he declined, they apppointed Dean Smith from Walsall. Smith embedded the Head Coach set-up and consolidated their position in the Championship, even while having a small budget and having to sell players. Left for his dream job at boyhood club, Villa.
Finally they replaced him with Dane Thomas Frank, from their coaching staff. He had never played football, having got into youth football as a PE teacher, eventually with the NT, before his first club job, where he left when he found out he was being undermined by his Chairman, who was posting against him under an assumed name on a fans forum! TF is now the 3rd longest PL manager after Guardiola and Klopp, and is doing an outstanding job.
The point being that each one of those choices was very different, yet four of the five took the club to the next level i.e. an 80% success rate, with the fifth being ditched before he could do any harm. Which record of appointments has to be right up there with the very best clubs in England. Meaning that if they are giving Carsley a good reference, I personally would trust their judgement.
A ringing endorsement. And I hear he is a very good cook. I think I'm just looking for something more tangible to support his ability to get more out of a less talented group of (specifically senior) players.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Brentford level completed.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
They only 'tangible" thing you're ever going to get regarding his ability is going to be reported or hearsay unless you know him personally or work(ed) with him. There's a lot of 'talk' about Carsley from his peers & higher, concerning his coaching ability. He's obviously a very respected and capable coach, whether he can succeed at senior level is something to be seen but all the evidence points towards him doing so.
Knock yourself out:Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
https://totalfootballanalysis.com/ta...tical-analysis
https://trainingground.guru/articles...-not-positions
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/25498...ds-to-get-here
https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/jole...verton-wolves/
No idea what that means.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
From a tangible point of view I suppose you could point to the Euros he won with their u21s. I know they have good players, but they always do and I think thats the 1st time they've won it? Its at least been quite a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
U21s is technically youth football, but at that level they are professional players, and the egos that come with that. Its a bit different to u17s and u19s. So I dont worry about him never coaching senior players. The bulk of our teams are about 24 and under so for me its a massive plus that he is good with young players.
The England U21s is full of players who are regulars in the PL. The team that won the Euros would play our senior team off the park week in week out.
I haven’t seen enough of the English U21s but thought Spain had them pinned back in the final and they struggle to break Spain’s high press. They beat a relatively weak Israel in the semis but looking at the match stats against Portugal in the quarter finals, it would seem they also struggled against a team that put them on the back foot. That’s a worry for me because it says there was difficult in overcoming an opposition that can match England and/ or play a high press and possession game. If Carsley becomes manager, he is going to be facing stronger opposition than us in the qualifiers and going to be in games where we have less of the ball/ are on the back foot. And if he couldn’t figure a way to play out against Spain with the players England have, will he be able to do that with us – especially with our weakness in midfield? I think we could fall back into a situation with Carsley where the players aren’t good enough line comes out, and focus is structure, defending deep and hoping to nick something on a set play. Don’t get me wrong – if the choice is Carsley, Hughton or Allardyce – I’d pick Carsley. But my preference of the names mentioned most recently would be Barry as there is evidence (the tangible) he can make the players we have better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
With all due respect to Brentford - they are a small club (they have spent most of their existence in the lower reaches of the Football League) - the fact that they have managed to get into the PL and stay there is quite remarkable.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Not completely true - they have some good players but the team that won the U21 final only had one regular PL player (Gordon) - now several others are breaking into their first teams this season - but it is a major stretch to suggest that they would play us off the park (unless Kenny was still head coach). But it also should be remembered that there were a lot of other very good teams in that competition - the Spanish team that they beat in the final did have several players who were regulars in La Liga (and in the PL in Portugal) in 22-23.Quote:
Originally Posted by LurcherLover
Stats are grand, but he beat Spain and Portugal and actually won the tournament. Our passing and possession stats were way up under Kenny but he lost alot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Barry for sure. I'd like to put John Eustace's name in there too. And I'd probably have Hughton ahead of Carsley. I wouldnt be upset at all though if Carsley got the gig. They'd all be a fairly safe gamble for improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
not really true at all...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Trafford - a loan season at league 1, now a prem player
Griifiths - first half of the season at league 1, second half playing championship
Rushworth - a loan season at league 1, now a championship loan
Aarons - previous season was in the champ but had played 70 PL games and is back there now
Johnson - had played 55 PL games and won west ham’s young player of the year two years in a row
Colwill - starter for Brighton last season, now a starter for Chelsea
Harwood-Bellis - a series of championship loans, promoted with Burnley before the 21s tournament
Branthwaite - now a premier league regular, was on loan at PSV that season
Cresswell - on loan in the champ.
Thomas - had played 17 PL games that season and 56 in total, got relegated and is now in champ
Skipp - 79 games for Spurs under his belt at the time of the tournament
Doyle - on loan with promoted Sheffield United last season, on loan at Wolves this season
Ramsey - played 35 of 38 PL games in the season before the tournament. Has played 93 PL games
Garner - 16 PL games in the season but he missed November - April due to injury and then played all the last 10 games of the season. Now a regular.
Gibbs white - played 37 of 38 prem games in the season before the tournament. Has played 96 PL games
Smith Rowe - has played over 100 games for Arsenal, full England international
Jones - has played over 100 games for Liverpool
Palmer - Chelsea paid £40+m for him straight after the tournament - played 41 games for city before the move
Gordon - 81 prem games at the time of tournament
Elliott - played 46 games for Liverpool in the season before the tournament, has 56 premier league appearances under his belt but would be more if the horror injury hadn’t happened
Gomes - a regular for one of the better ligue 1 teams
Madueke - first half of the season with PSV before Chelsea bought him for €33m. Played a bit for Chelsea in the rest of the season
Archer - scored 11 in 20 last season for Boro in the championship. Now a first choice PL player.
if you were picking a combined team, we could realistically have starters in goal (bit of a toss up between Trafford, Bazunu and Kelleher), at right back (toss up between Doherty, Coleman, Aarons and Johnson), centre back (it's probably Colwill and Branthwait but Collins is in the mix for the second slot) and Evan Ferguson starts up top. So they have 7 definite, we have 1 and then 3 50/50s
And all while keeping strictly within FFP, when their final Championship (pre-Covid) annual turnover was £15m (i.e. continuously sold their best players for a profit and replaced them with better).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Not for them blowing FFP out of the water to "buy" promotion like, eg Villa.
And since being in the PL, they've made a profit, meaning they've had nothing to fear from Profit and Sustainability Rules.
What was that?
"Everton"?
No, it is true. Plus, I'm talking about the current squad and how they've played. We made NZ look like a top team and there's no guarantee that a new coach will come in miraculously change things. Kenny was out of his depth, but the players have been lucky he was so bad, as he has masked how utterly terrible they have performed. I don't care how bad you're set up, it's no excuse for how bad they've been in the majority of games. The majority of that team have gotten off lightly and some people will tell you that we have some sort of golden generation of young players that just need the correct manager to unlock their potential. We're very poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Any manager does well to win a Trophy with England at any level because, they so often manage to blow good situations to win tournaments, despite all of the advantages that England have !
Imagine we had that as our senior team...Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
It means you could write the Wikipedia page for Brentford FC. Your knowledge knows no bounds. Your admiration is clear. Brentford FC – completed it mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
(If Thomas Frank is looking for a new challenge, or Brentford want to take over the running of the FAI, send them our way. I’m sold.)
He did indeed win the tournament – an achievement. But can he make our (less talented) collection of individuals a better whole is the question? And it not about passing the ball around, or playing a particular style. Rather, can he maximise the resources available to him to help us punch above our weight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
England are individually superior in most games they play so greater emphasis should be given to the games where England were matched to determine Carsley’s suitability to do the job for us. Because we, more often than not, are likely to be matched/ or bettered in the individual quality level of opposition we will face – and hence the reference to England’s performances against Spain and Portugal in the U21 Championship. England were out maneuvered in those games with Carsley admitting as such in the aftermath of the Portugal game
Moving on, it's best to learn from Kenny's time and not land in a situation again where an opposing manager can ridicule our tactical ineptitude. I’m not saying that will happen with Carsley, again prefer him to other named candidates, just expressing reason for doubt.Quote:
"We have to give Portugal a lot of credit," Carsley said. "They pressed us really well, they were aggressive with their positioning. "We couldn't control it. It wasn't as if we were on battery save mode, Portugal were good.
Although I am a lifelong Spurs fan, I've lived virtually within walking distance of Brentford for decades (check out a map of London for Ealing/Brentford), have watched them for years with my Bees mates, including when they were in Lges One & Two, and currently have a Season Ticket* at the GTech.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Which is why I don't need Wikipedia to comment on Brentford on matters like this - see eg my previous posts on Nathan Collins or Scott Hogan. In the same way as I feel qualified to comment on Spurs-related matters eg Troy Parrott or Matt Doherty threads.
And which is also why I would prefer if you confined your comments to the matters under discussion, rather than trying to personalise them with sarcastic digs at me, esp when you clearly know bugger-all about me.
On which point, have you anything to say about Carsley's coaching style and qualifications? You know, where you asked about this in post #523, and I replied in #525.
* - Check out the fixture lists - for policing reasons, Brentford and Spurs generally play their home games week-about, so no fixture clash.
Oh dear. Your knowledge of Brentford is unquestioned (you could write the Wikipedia page – a compliment not a dig, whatever) but Brentford was a short scratch on Carsley post playing career eight years ago. That Brentford wanted Carsley eight years ago doesn’t say much today regardless of how well Brentford is run as a club. When asked to explain why Carsley is so well-respected you gave a short generic and sneering “you know management stuff” reply, and proceeded to roll out the “if he was good enough for Brentford” text, throwing out those links as a google search afterthought (none of which referred to his time with Brentford which is the basis to you having no doubts about his managerial abilities?). Given the sensitivities, I’ll leave it there – my posts are merely those of a fan with a vested interest in the team wanting the best candidate to get the role.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Btw Dijkhuizen has moved on to greater things post-Brentford. He’s currently managing our Troy.
Let's have a few corrections - note - you said - The England U21s is full of players who are regulars in the PL. The team that won the Euros would play our senior team off the park week in week out.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Trafford played in League 1 last season - he is currently conceding an average of more than 2 goals a game with Burnley.
Aarons has been repeatedly tipped over the past three years for a transfer to a PL club - yet no one has bought him until Bournemouth paid £7m for him in August - he is not a regular at Bournemouth
Johnson hasn't played for West Ham this season
Colwill was not a starter for Brighton last season - he started 13 games and was a sub in four others.
Harwood-Bellis is playing for Southampton in the Championship - he has never played a PL game
Thomas has never been a starter for Leicester in the PL
Skipp - never a regular starter for Spurs
Doyle - not a regular for Wolves
Ramsey was a regular for the past two seasons - is not this season (in part because of an early season injury)
Smith Rowe - not playing for Arsenal this season (again in part because of injury)
Jones - not a regular for Liverpool
Palmer - not a regular until the Chelsea move
Elliot - getting there - but not a starter for Liverpool
Gomes - The French L1 is nowhere near the standard of the PL
Madueke - not a regular starter
Archer - has played 8 games for Sheff Utd - he is not a first choice PL player and he plays for the worst team in the PL.
Furthermore - I argued that the starting team that won the U21 Euros for England had only one regular PL starter at the time ( I will admit to an error - there were two - Gordon and Gibbs-White).
The team - Trafford - Garner - Colwill - Harwood-Bellis - Aarons - Smith-Rowe - Gomes - Gibbs-White - Jones - Palmer - and Gordon.
Now - I would also argue that this team that won the Euros would not play the Irish team off the park - I think it would be a pretty even game with Ireland winning narrowly. Why - because Ireland have a lot more experience. Give it a year or two and you could have a valid argument - but Ireland are also likely to be a much better team in a year or two now that Kenny is gone.
Both Bazunu and Kelleher are better than TraffordQuote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Coleman is the better RB any day of the week
Branthwaithe didn't play in the final - and I would start both Egan and Collins ahead of him anyway
Now - midfield is our weakest position - but Gomes wouldn't start ahead of Cullen or Knight for me.
Ferguson is going to be a much better player than Palmer.
The English U21s do have something that the Irish team lack - real pace from several parts of the pitch - and in todays game pace is very important.
I would have 5 Irish players in a combined team. This is not to say that the English U21s isn't full of good players with a lot of potential - but some of them will fall by the wayside as with any underage team. Furthermore - the important point is that there were several other very good squads in the tournament. The Spanish squad had a whole bunch of players who were regular starter in La Liga and in the PL in Portugal.
You cannot talk about the current squad when you have a manager who doesn't know what he was doing and the NZ manager ran rings around him tactically. The players have not been good under Kenny - but it is very hard to be good when your coach doesn't know what he is doing and the opposition coach can completely undermine Kenny in a tactical sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by LurcherLover
The current Irish squad and underage teams have the best potential of any since the Kerr underage teams with Keane, Duff and Dunne etc - the big question is how many will develop into quality players and can we have a coach who maximises their talents and make the team play better than the sum of its parts - not the opposite way around.
wasn't me that said it. i was just responding to you saying "he team that won the U21 final only had one regular PL player (Gordon)".Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
I don't think there's much point going into detail about all players again, rebutting some of the things you've said - but just to give a few examples:
Colwill got two injuries last season. He started all 5 games before the second injury, then was injured the next 6 games. After that, they decided not to play him twice in a week - so he wouldn't relapse. So he started against Palace and Brentford, rested for the midweek game against Bournemouth, then played against Spurs that weekend and so on. He was used in every game except for a midweek one, between two games (and the chelsea game where he was ineligible). So you're correct that he only started 13 but by the end of the season, he was first choice and to give some context based on someone we both mentioned, Evan Ferguson only started 10 premier league games last season.
Similarly, you're both saying that players who became regulars this season don't count, while also counting out Ramsey for breaking his metatarsal in July and re-injuring it in October. Ramsey was clearly a regular premier league, while playing the tournament, prior to his injury. I think overall, you've got a very very narrow view of what a premier league regular is. To play devils advocate (I don't really believe this - but this is how you're looking at the england u21s):
Bazunu - championship keeper
Kelleher - 30 games in his career
Travers - found out at prem level
Coleman - hasn't played this season (due to injury but he's closer to 40 than 30 and the pace has gone)
Doherty - didn't play regularly for Spurs, Atletico or Wolves - clearly not your definition of a regular
Ebosele - As you said re Ligue 1, Serie A is a long way from PL
Egan - last two seasons in the championship, played only 5 prem games this season (due to injury) for the worst team in the league
Omobamidele - hasn't made it onto the pitch for Forest since he signed
O'Shea - championship player when the tournament began
Duffy - championship player
Collins - premier league player but he's been sold year after year, lost his place in the Wolves team to Dawson and they sold him for about the same price they paid for him
Manning - championship player with no pace
Scales - the SPL is so so far from Premier League level, it's closer to LOI than it is to PL
Cullen - championship player when the tournament began, already lost his place in a poor Burnley team
Molumby - average championship player
Browne - average championship player
Knight - championship player
Smallbone - championship player who has never really recovered that injury
Hendrick - can't get into a bad championship team
McGrath - again - the SPL is so so far from Premier League level, it's closer to LOI than it is to PL
Ogbene - only a premier league player this season
Johnston - can't get into an SPL team
Robinson - average championship player
Sykes - average championship player
Connolly - couldn't cut it in Serie A, struggling in the championship
Ferguson - only started 10 premier league games last season
Obafemi - injury prone championship player with attitude problems
Parrott - couldn't cut it in the championship
Idah - 6 league goals in the 4 seasons before the the tournament
Funny old post to see on an Irish football forum. Not everything has to be positive on here but going down through our entire squad with the clear intention of cutting them down is pretty mad and feels a little pointless.
Not sure there's much to hugely disagree with there though (except that it was Serie B Connolly was turfed out of, not Serie A)
Bit of realism is no harm here every now and again. Plus there's the caveat "I don't really believe this - but this is how you're looking at the england u21s"
You can find something negative to say about every player in world football if you want to. Not sure it always adds up to a very strong argument though.
two decent friendlies for the manager to start off with anyway...
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...land-in-march/
Looks like we've moved away from the "find the opposition even Stephen Kenny can't lose to" approach to friendlies of previous years, expectations must be higher for the new man.
Will be tough going seeing as we apparently have the worst squad in the history of world football according to one or two on here!
I don't think anyone has remotely suggested anything of the sort in fairness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
These two games will be interesting though to see what sort of uplift we can get. Presume it's Belgium A this time rather than Belgium B?
That's a bit rough, who said that? Sounds like something a 12yo would say when they hear any criticism of their team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
An away game a couple of months out from the Euros I'd say they'll be sending out the B team. What was it last time lads with under 50 caps were selected.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Yep. It meant they left out around 11 players I think. If we did the same, it'd mean leaving out McClean, Duffy, Brady, Hendrick and Coleman.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
Take that, Belgium!
One interesting thing that could come in to the picture if Carsley does get the Irish job ~ ~ Is that Carsley will have extensive knowledge about so many good young players in England ( maybe even a few other places ) ~ ~ Some of these may have dual eligibility and may be that bit more inclined to play for us, if they already have had some interaction with Carsley.
If Carsley could get a few decent players to declare for us that would be a big bonus point !
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...he-green-line/
This article from RTE is primarily about Gleeson being appointed womens head coach, but theres enough in there from Marc Canham that shows that the appointment for the men wont be a Sam Allardyce type.
"He doesn't want the senior team - or any team - to be out of sync with what's going on within the rest of the international infrastructure. Everybody must be on the same wavelength. It was a source of friction with Vera Pauw, who refused to change her approach to elements of training - strength and conditioning in particular."
Am I arguing about what standard the Irish team are playing at ?Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
I will point out the following -
Bazunu - 21 years old
Kelleher - 25
Travers - 24 (a good Championship level keeper which is better than most of what we have had for the past 100 years)
O'Shea - 24
Collins - 22
O'Brien - 22 (who should be in the squad)
Omobamidele - 21
Ebosele - 21
Knight - 22
Molumby - 24
Smallbone - 23
Moran - 20
Azaz - 23 (who should be in the squad)
Idah - 22 (and a better player than his goals reflect)
Parrott - 21
Ferguson - 19
Johnston - 24 (and he has started the last 4 games for Celtic)
Connolly - 23
Armstrong - 20
Obafemi - 23 (yes he is injury prone - and we don't know the 'attitude problems')
Cannon - 20 (if he ends up with us)
And with the U21s etc
Aselmo - 20
Lawal - 20
Springett - 21
Gilsenan - 20
Vata - 18
Vaughan - 19
Heffernan - 18
O'Mahony - 18
TKD - 17
Murphy - 19
Fraser - 18
JJP Finn - 20
We have a very young squad - and they have a lot of potential - whether that potential will be achieved only time will tell. Having an international manager who knows what they are doing will help. And if 1 out of 3 of the underage kids achieve their potential as well we will have a strong squad.
I think this is very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
You manage to find fault with the first part of this. No view to share on the second part?
"Connolly - couldn't cut it in Serie A, struggling in the championship"
I don't think he has struggled in the Championship. Do you?
I will also look at an example from history - 1973 to be exactQuote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
These were the players who played for Ireland in 1973 (i.e. not the squad - but who were actually capped)
Alan Kelly – 37 years old - Preston – Div 2
Peter Thomas – 29 - Waterford
Mick Kearns – 23 - Walsall – Div 3
Paddy Mulligan – 28 – Palace – Div 2
Jimmy Holmes – 20 – Coventry – Div 1
Tommy Carroll – 31 – Shelbourne
Eoin Hand – 27 – Portsmouth – Div 2
Tony Byrne – 27 – Southampton – Div 1
Tommy McConville – 27 – Shamrock Rovers
Terry Mancini – 31 – QPR – Div 1
Joe Kinnear – 27 – Spurs – Div 1
John Herrick – 27 – Cork Hibs
Mick Martin – 22 – Man U – Div 1
Miah Dennehy – 23 – Forest – Div 2
Gerry Daly – 19 – Man U – Div 1
Johnny Giles – 33 – Leeds – Div 1
Mick Lawlor – 24 – Shamrock Rovers
Turlough O’Connor – 27 – Bohs
Don Givens – 24 – QPR – Div 1
Ray Treacy – 27 – Preston – Div 2
Terry Conroy – 27 – Stoke – Div 1
Alfie Hale – 34 – Waterford
Damien Richardson – 26 – Gillingham – Div 3
Many of these players were not regular starters for their teams (e.g. Terry Conroy - he was used almost exclusively as a sub) - and most of them would be playing a division lower today than they were then because there were practically no foreign players in England at the time.
Between 1967-1972 Ireland didn't win a single game P 19 - W 0 - D 5 - L 14
With mostly the same players as in the previous 3/4 seasons the team in 1973 achieved the following results.
WC qual - 2-1 France home (actually played in late Nov 1972 - but with the same squad of players)
WC qual - 0-1 USSR away
Friendly - 0-2 Poland away
WC qual - 1-1 France away
Friendly - 1-1 Norway away
Friendly - 1-0 Poland home
This was a relatively experienced squad with only a handful of players under 25 - but I would argue that the current squad is playing at a higher level of competition than that 1973 squad. The big difference is that results were achieved by the 1973 squad - they played better than the sum of their parts - and that was down to the manager Liam Touhy who was appointed in 1972 (Sean Thomas was interim manager for the Norway game after Touhy was screwed by the FAI - and Giles was appointed manager before the Poland game but it was still Touhy's approach that was used).
If you get a good coach then you get a team that will play better than the sum of its parts - for the past four years Kenny was succeeding in doing the exact opposite. We have no idea how well this team can actually play as an international team because they never have had a coach who knows what he is doing at international level. Hopefully the next one will know what they are up to.
Many of the teams who qualified are looking for strong friendlies before the tournament - and they tend to put out strong teamsQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler