that's the weirdest way I've seen someone say "no, there is no evidence" everQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
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that's the weirdest way I've seen someone say "no, there is no evidence" everQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I feel oddly nervous about this decision. There's part of me that is delighted to see Mick given another shot, given the way he was forced out, and particularly as it comes at Keane's expense. But I feel a little subdued about it, and I think it has to do with the timing - if Mick had been in the job since the start of this year I'd probably have felt much better about it as he would have had time to settle back into the role at the same time as building the team up. First time round in 1996 he started with a record of five defeats and two draws in friendlies and the 1998 campaign was so-so at best. This time he will be going straight into competitive action.
Also, I know a lot of people have complained about Ireland's performances under O'Neill recently, but I noted months ago that this was a transitional phase with new players coming in, some key players out injured, and O'Neill trying out a new formation and said that the results and performances could well be below par. I know he got ridiculed for playing Cyrus Christie in central midfield, but what are you supposed to do when half your available Premier League players are right-backs? Our lack of goals and chances is certainly a big worry but our defence tightened up after the Wales debacle, and we only conceded twice in our five games since then, keeping our Danish tormentors scoreless over 180 minutes and picking up a couple of points which could yet prove valuable in getting a place in the play-offs - and our team was still largely made up of players with fewer than a dozen caps.
On the other hand, I didn't have the misfortune of sitting through the games and perhaps I would have a harsher view of O'Neill if I had - was there really little or no improvement over the last eight months or so? Plus hearing of the rudimentary nature of training sessions, with little or no focus on setpieces, and seeing the possession stats does make me think that it might have been time for MONKEANO to go. Fans complained that Trap didn't believe enough in his players but MON's philosophy seemed much worse than Trap's. And one of the great things about the team when Mick was in charge was the belief that, while they acknowledged defeat was possible, they believed that victory was always possible and often likely and thus knew that there was no reason to be afraid and played that way.
So, maybe the draw will be kind and give us a couple of easier games to start the qualifiers with so that Mick can get settled. And hopefully we'll see a couple of youngsters break through between now and then and some of the players MON brought in over the last few months will step up a gear and that, at the very least, we'll be competitive when the play-offs roll around in March 2020, assuming we make it. And of course Mick always led us to second place in qualifiers, which will be enough this time around
Had to go look!Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckydee
They drew 1-1 away to Holland. Decent looking lineup on paper, if a little uneven - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...02/1816114.stm
Now that it looks inevitable that Mick is getting the job, do people think Kenny would take the under 21 role if, as reported, he was offered it? It's a tough one. Big year for Dundalk in Europe and it's not the most glamorous position but it gets his leg in the door. Hard to know what to think.
It's his choice. I'd like to see him take it as a stepping stone to something bigger. Problem is our 21s have historically been really crap, so it's hard to see how you'd measure success. Slightly less crap?
He could get the under 21 job with a role that is broader than just the under 21 manager and has a development role at that level. It would be nice to see a cohesive approach being taken between the success we are having at 17, 18 and 19 level right up to Kenny at 21 level.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
That's all very blue sky. He's more likely to be offered the under 21 job and be told prove himself at that level before he gets any shout at the senior role.
Mick is on 1.2 million a year.
Morten Olsen was appointed Denmark manger in 2000. He was manger there for, what, 16 years? They paid him 400k a year. His job also included overhauling the youth system and installing a footballing ethos from top to bottom, and integrating the domestic and international game.
MON's final game in charge was against Denmark. It was like night vs day. Our conclusion was to sack MON, spend 48 hours thinking about his replacement and in the end hire the poor man's MON.
It's like some kind of tragic comedy.
Everyone talking about O’Neill’s poor record and Kerr’s amazing record.
But, what do the stats look like if we take friendly games out of the equation. Because under Kerr we were amazing at winning friendlies.
Kenny could probably do the under 21s and the Dundalk job. If he left Dundalk for full time U21s that’s a major step down. Hope he makes major inroads with Dundalk in Europe. Ultimately that’s more beneficial to Irish football than whatever McCarthy does with the international side.
I'd struggle to name one memorable win under Kerr, and it's even harder if you restrict it to qualifiersQuote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
2 European Championships. Memorable?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
But yeah, Kerr's results at senior level were ultimately not good enough and there were no "memorable" wins and yes there were "memorable" wins under MON.
But if we going to compare MON and Kerr as senior managers, if should be remembered MON qualified us just once, for a championship with 24 teams. The same championship was 16 teams in Kerr's time.
And Kerr was on less than one fifth of MON's salary.
Kerr P16 W7 D7 L2 GF19 GA10Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
O'Neill P32 W12 D12 L8 GF39 GA30
Nice one. Quite similar except with O’Neill on double the amount of losses on average.Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
2 of those competitive losses include the Nations League of course
Whatever about the stats (and O’Neill’s away stats were singularly impressive I’d say) we became unwatchable and quite frankly a soft touch at home. This began under Trap in fairness. Jon Walters says we play like the away side at home and this has to change. Under Mick I remember losing a couple of home friendlies (Greece and Scotland I think) and a couple of key games like Switzerland but generally you could turn up at home and be really confident of a win in Mick’s first spell. The tricky eastern European team home games were usually comfortable enough 2-0s. When MON came in I thought we’d be likely to see a rerun of Celtic’s home European nights. Hard fought high-tempo tight games with set pieces deciding games in our favour, in front of full houses and big atmosphere. The home games were nothing of the sort.
I’m actually of a different view to samhaydenjr here. If the job came up a year ago it’d have been Kenny all day long for me. The fact that we’re straight in to qualifying now changes that.
And we all accept the point about transition but O’Neill was making a balls of the transition. Selections were erratic and often incomprehensible. I’d have been happy to lose every game if there were signs of something new emerging but the signs just got worse. Whatever about what Doherty said, what Hourihane said was telling. The younger guys needed direction and they got none.
I really hope the U21s becomes a big thing. Does anyone know what Kenny earns at Dundalk? Pay him 50-60k extra, 4 year contract, wide remit, tell him he is senior underage coach. That said, for the only time in my life I might agree with bennocelt! Maybe the best thing for Kenny right now is a good CL campaign. I feel for Kenny but I hope his time comes.
Why are we paying 1.2m a year? If we are getting a Championship manager pay championship wages.
On twitter it is being reported by some journalists that McCarthy is getting the job until Euro 2020 with Stephen Kenny as the new U21 manager. Kenny will take over from McCarthy after 2020. Supposedly to be announced tomorrow at 3pm.
The FAI actually making a long term progressive decision? We've never been here beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
There is probably a big meteorite on its way ! ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by centre mid
Not sure what that says to Kenny. "You're not good enough now, but you might be in two years, and *if* you are then you can have the job we're giving to someone else"
If it’s true, it’s probably the best outcome we could have hoped for. A good decision.
If Kenny is okay with it, that’s all that really matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Says it all for me. Hire a man and ask him to transform the whole system for a third of what we pay our manager. I'm sure the FAI would have got Kenny for 400k. Kenny is capable of doing a job with the home based youngsters and possibly yielding much better domestic players in ten years time. But hey who cares about the future when you've got all the money in the worldQuote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Confirmed by the way: https://www.rte.ie/amp/1013087/?__tw...mpression=true
Happy with this.
Need to think about it. It gives Kenny the experience at international level people were saying he was lacking for the senior job. On the other hand, what happens if Mick does an amazing job?
Yeah, I agree. Kenny can learn a lot from a two-year involvement with the national team. Obvious issue is what happens if someone who got Dunfermline relegated turns out not to be up to the Ireland role in two years' time.
Slightly surprised Mick is ok with the deal, but if he can do half as good a rebuilding job as last time, it'll be a good appointment.
Though there is a slight feeling of the FAI playing to the populist gallery in it all.
Then he’ll have paved the way well for Kenny.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
**shrug**
Which is ok as long as it makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I agree. I just wonder have the FAI thought about it at all or just acted blindly?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Though let's not forget the fact that they were probably considering options a while ago.
Overall, I do think it's a good option though
Was about to say the same thing. Really happy with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by centre mid
From Mick's perspective, he's 61 in 2020 and he's earned 2.4m in the previous 2 years. Would he even want to continue? I'm sure that was discussed.
I’m really happy with this even if it shores up JD’s position.
A guy comparing Kenny to Michael O’Neill on Twitter made me think: ONeill did/does a super job but he had a nightmare first year. We can’t afford that.
The U21s being managed properly for once is going to be crucial. We know the 19s are a good bunch. The continuity will be great.
I wonder what Dokter’s position is if Kenny also has oversight from 15s up. I think he’s primarily a planner / structure designer rather than a coach / coach motivator so I expect he stays. I’d say he deserves too, to be fair.
And Dundalk will be weaker :)
Closer to three years, he didn't get his second win until 31 months into the job. Lost to Luxembourg, and Azerbaijan in that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Proud of myself here in light of the RTE article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Apparently McCarthy had no idea about Kenny taking over after 2 years and wants the clause removed.
Classic FAI, don't you go changing Delaney, you crazy beautiful idiot.
Oh well that didn't take long.
Things starting to revert to type now.
If McCarthy know nothing about Kenny taking over in 2020 - I'm thinking that part of the story is nonsense and Kenny is just getting the U21 job and overseeing the youth teams.
Crazy guarantee from the fai on Kenny. What if Hughton/Rodgers etc want the job when two years is up. WC campaign and all that.
Mick wants another 2.4mill over 2 years. Just give him 2 years & see how he does.
The FAI (Delaney) truly are a joke. They’ve got McCarthy to sign up for a secondment!!! But didn’t tell him. Classic.
Okay - it's just rubbish from journalists now.
Daniel McDonnell is saying there was no confusion from McCarthy