I was losing the rag with Whelan at times. He does offer a lot but there were a number of times last night McClean was in acres of space on the left and for whatever reason, presumably Whelan either being unwilling or unable to make the pass, the ball never went to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I would like a look at Hourihane in the Whelan role from the start against Iceland. Possibly with Brady and Hendrick in a 3 man midfield
No mention of Christie in the ratings ? Undermines the credibility of the other verdicts a touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisLetang
I wonder what our first eleven is now for Austria if no injuries?
Randolph
Christie Duffy. Clark. Ward
McCarthy. Hendrick
Brady
Mcgeady. Long. Mcclean
Leaves Walters, Murphy, wes, arter as potential impact subs. Arter was very poor in Austria don't seehim starting just now if we have full pick. Hopefully hourihane given his set piece ability plays well against Iceland to be in contention in june
Exactly what I said at the time, recalling Meyler's performance on the right in Austria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I would not start Christie. Has had very little game time at Derby and he looked like a bag of nerves last night. Can't see his club situation getting any better before the end of the season. So we need a right back for the Austria game - Matt Doherty is the obvious choice although maybe Meyler should get the start there.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
As far as the rest of the team goes I would definitely include Wes. Based on the evidence of last night, Hendrick would be the one to give way.
Fair enough but no way wes Brady and McCarthy play in a three. Maybe Brady goes left back back let's wes come into midfield and it's a toss up between arter and Hendrick to partner McCarthy. Can't see Doherty coming in from nowhere in terms of been involved with O'Neill sides to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Off topic watching Belgium losing to Greece who are down to ten men. Makes what we did last night seem super creative. No invention from Belgians with far better ballers than us
Christie was average last night....He does have a long throw in which is handy . I suppose its a bit unfair to judge him on those 20 minutes . Surely Doherty will get into a squad to have a look at .
Really poor game last night but I think that came from both teams been very anxious not to lose. Wales were marginally the better team up to the Coleman injury but I felt we were starting to get on top. We were full of endeavour for last 20 mins and possibly lacked a Murphy like presence up top.
Also felt the way we were set up and our personnel neutralised Wales but also ourselves. We struggled to break through their formation. Only once did we almost create a good opportunity, in the first a one two which nearly saw long through. Otherwise it was mainly hussle and bussle.
Quite affected by Coleman injury. Such a top bloke and player. Hope he gets back on the pitch this year and back to his best.
On we go, in great shape. Austria need to beat us in next game. That may suit our style of play.
In real time I thought Bale's tackle was the worse of the two and only his name / fame saved him from a red earlier. The Bale tackle was a carbon copy of the one that dislocated my ankle in 2001. I was admiring my own clearance when a guy slid in and took my standing leg from under me.
I actually thought Christie looked ok. Seamus wasn't having a great game.
Midfield 3 disappointed going forward, Whelan took too much out of the ball too often. I expected more forward drive from Hendrick.
Keogh awful on the ball, bag of nerves.
Good team performance defensively, awful in possession until the last 20.
Boarding plane now...
Same here, I thought Bale's tackle was worse, just had less impact, though I haven't seen a replay of it. It was a muck of a game for the most part (mainly down to us). Brady was missed for set pieces/passing ability, and a player like Hoolahan to hold onto the ball for 5 seconds.
When it's straight red tackle that takes a player right out of the game, I think there's case that he could be subbed outside of the 3 sub quota.
He didn't start Rowlett's first game in charge which might be a slight concern but he played ninety minutes in their previous six games. Hardly that little game time considering he only returned from a couple of months out with injury at the end of January.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I'm all over giving Doherty a chance and he may well be a better option long term but I don't think Christie looked a bag of nerves at all. His worst game for us was against Belarus when the whole team were poor, but he has been very good otherwise when called upon.
That's a great suggestion. Don't think I've heard it before but it's actually a no brainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Neil O'Riordan writes that Ronald Koeman had "snubbed" an opportunity to "end the feud" between himself and Martin O'Neill a few weeks ago: https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...ans-leg-break/
I'd imagine Koeman is absolutely snapping now in light of what happened with both Coleman and McCarthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil O'Riordan
More on Neil Taylor: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...eamus-coleman/
Pretty sure I also read somewhere that Taylor shook the hands of numerous Irish players as a gesture of apology whilst upon his visit to the Irish dressing room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Wilson
Sh!t happens. It was a poorly executed tackle but not a premeditated attempt at injuring or even hurting Coleman. It's just one of those things and Taylor has come out of it looking fairly okay in my book for the amount of remorse he's clearly demonstrated. It's an absolute balls for Coleman, Everton and Ireland but that's life, he's had a pretty good run up until now at least.
Ledley feeling the need to respond to the accusations (from the mentally insane) of him laughing at the outcome of incident leaves me shaking my head in despair at the power of social media these days.
Some say Whelan should have been sent off.
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-wales-wo...07427-Mar2017/
I'd have had no complaints had Whelan been shown a red card. He appeared to intentionally thrust his elbow towards Joe Allen and it definitely connected with Allen's chin. Video of the incident again here: https://vid.me/wGw9Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisLetang
http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/wm...6378.bild.htmlQuote:
"What is so funny about that?"
It doesn't look like a grimace IMO, but I'm not going to judge him. Your face doesn't always react the way you want it to when you receive shocking/bad news.
Unless we develop telepathy we might as well drop it.
I think there was malicious intent in Taylor's tackle but I do think he's genuinely sorry. He made an attempt to commiserate with Keane in particular, but Keane told him to F off.
It's shades of Shawcross/Ramsey. You can't tell me Shawcross didn't intend to "do" Ramsey, but I do think he was genuinely remorseful afterwards.
I could never understand the blame attributed to Shawcross to be honest.
Did Shawcross cry ?
Yeah, he was balling going off the pitch. It was a rough coming together but I'd say Shawcross barely even saw Ramsey coming. No matter how many times I watched that incident I just can't see any intent.
See this is it, on TV the other night Taylor spat on the ground as he left the arena, now players spit all the time, and I don't want to crucify him for it, I'm willing to believe the tales of his remorse, but at the time with RTE saying there will be no replays of the challenge etc, that spit moment as he passed the Irish bench, made me want to do the time for his murder.
IMHO Taylor was sent off not because of the tackle, but because Coleman broke his leg. If Coleman jumps back up and trots off without any ill effect i'd speculate Taylor probably gets away with a booking.
Players throw themselves into tackles like that all the time. It's incredibly rare for it to go as badly wrong as it did for Coleman. Throwing the book at him for breaking Colemans leg will achieve nothing because no player goes into a tackle worrying about breaking the other guys leg.
If we want to stamp those sort of challenges out it isn't about stiff punishments for people who break another guys leg. It needs to be about stiffer punishments for the guys who don't hurt anybody, get up, take their booking and think no more about it. I'm sure Neil Taylor feels bad enough already
I'm tired of this intent shoite being bandied about. Everyone who goes out on the pitch has a duty of care to the other players. Taylor had a duty of care not to recklessly challenge in the fashion that he did and the same goes for Bale.
Taylor should have the book (or whatever way UEFA/FIFA keep their rules bound) thrown at him. But likewise to anybody who tackles that way whether causing injury or not.
When you look at the tackle there is absolutely no need for a challenge of that fashion to be made. Also as I was saying to my brother the other evening, it's probably the nature of the player, that Seamie is that he went for that ball full-blooded rather than pull out at the last second. But alas...
There was another dangerous incident after the red card involving Bale which to my mind would have been a second yellow if the Taylor incident hadn't happened. And that's completely ignoring the fact that he should have seen red for his challenge on JOSH.
As I've said before, in hockey there is no intent adjudged for high-sticking; if a foul is committed in soccer the "I didn't mean it" defence shouldn't come into it. If Seamie doesn't break his leg I'm still sending Taylor off.
Ya id say they will avoid that fairly handy, seeing as they wont be going anywhere near there :/Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I think Whelan first half v Whelan 2nd half was very different. One of my mates at the game when he met us later that night goes, "it was a great game, whelan was sh1te". People seem to see snippets and judge the whole game on their most recent/freshest memory. The last 20 mins were good, from an entertainment perspective but the football was poor. Whelan was much better in the second half and spread the ball about, just not as quickly or not cross-field like he could have sometimes. I think he always showed and kept us going forward especially in the last 25 mins. A bit harsh on him, no doubt if we had joe allen or pirlo we would have been much better but none of our other midfielders would have done much better than he did 2nd half.
I doubt this was noticeable on the TV but Long was pushing their defenders all night long, and it was so blatant before crosses that i couldn't understand the ref wasn't signalling against him. One such time prevented us from scoring as keogh had expected the defender to clear it, long pushes him in the back gets up and misses it and puts keogh off. He could have had 2 yellows easily for the consistent professional fouling.
We really missed a robbie friday night, the ball fell in the box 4 or 5 times and easily cleared by Wales, they were the goals robbie scored and the naysayers went "ah sure it was a tap in". Its hard to demonstrate or respond to those people and convince them, but I convinced them friday with the evidence on show, Walters and Long were always a couple of yards from the action, even with the crosses their positioning was poor. Robbie had that knack of being in the right place at the right time. McGeady overhit two crosses and i thought ye clown, but as a good winger does ye put it in and hope someone gets on the end, but there was only long at the backpost both times, no one in the middle where a striker should be. I was hoping on 70 he would bring on Doyle, I think doyles positioning for crosses is better than Walters or long. I honestly think he would have got onto one of those crosses.
I thought christie was ok, i thought mcgeady was ok, but as usual he overplayed it on a couple of occassions. I think people are exaggerating how good he was, he was ok, he was his usual self, some overhit crosses and some over exuberance leading to lost possession.
Ward gifted them a couple of opportunities(on another day we would have been punished) and only for McCleans covering bale would have exposed us far more in that game, McClean was phenomenal covering for Ward and tracking back. It gave ward the option of going forward more often too, certainly more than coleman did on the night.
I think I said it before but limit the space bale has to run into and you stop wales. For a team like ireland(and portugal :) ) thats easily done as its how we generally setup. BUt against an attacking team its not.
I remember thinking halfway through the 2nd half, i've seen this ireland team before, more recently than I realised. It was the rugby team, we were showing lots of possession but were impotent. LIke the Wales rugby game we just lacked any sort of attacking intuition. It was drop it in and hope for the best. We could have played on for another 2 hours and I still wouldn't have seen us scoring. I initially thought that Wales were setup very well, and they were very compact, but defensively they were a bit panicky and rushed. A bit more composure, a bit more patience and we might have done something. Instead we went gung-ho with 20 mins to go. We had 20 mins, settle and play a bit. And then the eejit fans behind me shouting get it in the box, get it in the box, i assumed i was in with a load of foot.iers. The last thing we wanted to be doing was that, we had been doing it all night with zero effect.
I dont agree with this win at home draw away, it doesn't happen that way a lot of the time. You win the games there for the taking, and Serbia was the one that we could have won, their defence is not getting any better either. We really have to go at them when they come to Dublin they will wilt if we do, but I fear we wont and they will nick a goal first. I still feel most teams will negate eachother, if we can beat austria they will have lost belief and interest by the time they play Serbia and Wales again which is a bit of a worry. I really hope we are in plain sailing when the return fixture against Wales comes around. A draw against Austria and a wales win in serbia is wishful thinking, but it would be a good set of results for us.
I heard it from a different perspective, Bales yellow gave them license to tackle anyway they wanted afterwards and know they'd only get a yellow. It's a fair point. The ref had let a lot of other stuff go before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
On the ref I actually thought he did well he let it go as "2 british teams" playing football but let some stuff go that he shouldn't have.
Did Stutts cry? I can imagine him looking around like a duck, all proud of himself thinking how great he was, looking forward to regaling in the clubhouse post match to his team mates, and ringing his wife and parents to tell them also.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Just hoping that Coleman's injury isn't on a par with Jim Beglin and and Jimmy Holmes. Just sickened coming out of the ground.
One of the worst Irish home performances for a while. Absolutely no tempo and Randolph used to take about 5 minutes for every kick out. Worse than some of the Trapp home performances many here have written about in the past. Our tactic seem to be: nullify Bale and hope to nick one from a long punt to Long/Walters. We paid the Welsh way too much respect, possibly because they got to the Euro Semi-Finals but that didn't make them the 4th best team in Europe any more than Lincoln City getting to the last 8 of the FA Cup made them the 8th best team in England. Much of our success in the past has been about tempo and the crowd being the 12th man as a result, like in the last 15 minutes of the game. It was almost funereal up to that with Hennessy not having to make a save of any note whatsoever. We didn't try to win that game, despite what Roy Keane said, until they were down to 10 men and even then McGeady came on too late. The warm up routine was all about quick snappy passing. I don't know why they bothered. I had predicted the team that started and a win for Ireland because the Welsh are no great shakes. But we stood off them to deny space to Bale and that was the game plan. As the home team we should have dominated Wales at least in the possession stakes. Joe Allen, a failed Liverpool player who like Whelan plays in an average Stoke side, was allowed run the game.
All that said, we didn't lose and we're 4 points ahead still of them but Serbia were always going to be the main threat and now we're behind them, albeit only on goal difference. Which means we are going to have to beat them at home. We'll probably have to win in Georgia as well so huge pressure.
As regards the trumpet over the PA, I didn't hear it. The "band" was directly opposite me for most of the game so just heard them and not the PA. Sign of the times when bands are required to get the crowd going. The support in the last 15 minutes was tremendous but when it started singing a "team of Gary Breens" after 30 minutes I knew we were in trouble.
So: Paid the Welsh too much respect. Very saddened by Seamus. Happy to be joint top but "team of Gary Breens, please....".
ya owls, i hope he can come back teh same player, but whatever about a striker or winger or whatever a Defender has to challenge first, its his bread and butter stuff. If there is any unwillingness or psychological issues it makes it much more difficult to get back to and be your best. Colemans biggest asset is is pace and speed. That never seems to be the same after these things either. Heres hoping anyway. If he is back before Christmas he will be doing really well. Poor lad, whatever chance he had of a big move is probably now gone also :(
I don't think anybody is saying it's not a red card tackle if Coleman doesn't get hurt. I honestly think the ref is sending him off either way too. I just don't think it's a tackle worthy of further punishment. Not comparable to the Deli Alli one, for example, at all in my opinion, where hurting the player was the only thing on his mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Neither do I really agree that the Bale yellow gave other players licence to do whatever they pleased. They're two very different incidents and I can see why he's thinking Bale is going for the ball at least, even if he got it wrong. This idea of not wanting to send off a big name player is highly speculative too. It's just an unfortunate coincidence that within seconds two players were going full blooded for a 55/45 ball in Coleman's favour.
Like the Ramsey/Shawcross one it happened very fast but I think Taylor could have done more to avoid it than Shawcross that time.
Does anyone think Keanes comments gave them incentive, and Colemans the one who suffered. I don't think Ireland were dirty in the first half, but what keane said must have reasonated and coleman had them coming out dirty in the 2nd half.
The more I think of it the more I think it was a Trapattoni performance. Good without the ball, not good with it.
"Win at home draw away" has been redundant for us for ages because it's probably been the McCarthy era since we could reliably win at home. I think one win over Austria or Serbia will do the trick though (for 2nd). I think Austria looked poor even at home to Moldova and Moldova missed a sitter at 1-0 down. Our media will be deifying Alaba in the days before the game though.
Serbias defence is brutal, but if you don't utilise your strengths against an opponents weakness then it doesn't make a difference. They will be more attack minded when they come to Dublin, I can not see us winning that game at all. Be like so many others before them. 1-1 written all over it. If Georgia had taken that 2nd chance or even the 3rd one, it was game over in Tblisi and we were plain sailing from here on in. But where would the excitement be in that? Where would the Irishness be in that.
What Keane said was completely overblown by the media to begin with. He was asked how they were going to deal with Bale and he basically said by tackling him, that tackling is a part of football after all. If Wales were going to come out dirty because of those comments, surely it should have been in the first half?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Coleman got them pumped going out for the 2nd half because of the so called aggression we showed themin the first half.
Shane Long didn't do anything wrong, that's football - just a striker showing his physicality . Williams clattered into our strikers all game. The Whelan one - I'd have to see it again. Only he knows if he mean to elbow Allen in the throat. To be honest not sure why you'd have your elbow up that high in the first place...still doesn't justify two potential leg breakers.
We are still in a great position but that was a disappointing performance with the ball. I think MO'N was too cautious and should take some blame but I will acknowledge he was dealt a very bad hand with injuries. I mentioned a few days ago it was a Trap era starting 11 and that's what we got. When you've got Mr Sideways and Meyler in the centre of midfield creatity is always going to be non existent. Look how many times Whelan passed the buck to the centre backs and full backs. Our back 4 (bar Coleman) have never been comfortable on the ball so of course they'll just hoof it. The onus is on the midfield to get the ball and link our attacks. Also didn't help that our one decent ball player had an unually poor game by his standards (Hendrick). Slot Arter/Brady and Hoolahan back into the side and we get a different performance.
The defenders were crap with the call but I must say they were superb defensively. Wales created nothing. Ziltch. Fair play - we are easy to dish them criticism when they have a stinker so well done to the back 4.
Win your home games and draw your (big) away games is a sound philosophy all the same, and we've pretty much done that so far (just swapping an away win in Austria for a home draw with Wales).
Basically eleven points would have been the maximum, realistic target I think anybody could have hoped for at this stage (despite some posters thinking every other team is there for the taking as if we're not :)).
We're in a brilliant position, I think people should be a bit more positive. Okay it was a bit of a caveman performance but we were absolutely ripped apart with injuries in terms of both our creative players and set piece threats. God knows we look limited enough even when they're available.
Restricting them was always going to be priority number one and unfortunately we never looked equipped to engineer anything too positive at the other end. I would have started McGeady (good call OwlsFan) to help in this regard but it is what it is.
Losing Coleman is a far bigger setback than the two points allegedly dropped.
This is Wales' supposedly golden generation versus our lot and the only real danger here moment was Bale's moment of grabbing the bit and lining up that quality shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
cant agree with this. the ref had his hand in his back pocket for the red within a second of the challenge when he had no idea if the leg was broken or not. Taylor connected with Coleman mid shin after sliding in and that's a red all day to me.
players owe each other a duty of care and when you go in like Taylor did you need to be pretty sure you are going to come away with the ball cleanly if you are going to go in like that.